Adding the “and” of being a mom

Some "and's" are out of your control–couples who have experienced infertility and miscarriages know this well. Sam and Brice Johnson join Tiffany for this very personal episode about their experiences with miscarriage and loss.

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Some "and's" are out of your control–couples who have experienced infertility and miscarriages know this well. Sam and Brice Johnson join Tiffany for this very personal episode about their experiences with miscarriage and loss.

They discuss what it's like to experience multiple miscarriages, the effects on their relationship, and how Sam and Tiffany unexpectedly found their careers intertwining in the midst of Sam and Brice's journey toward parenthood.

Tiffany: I'm your host, Tiffany Sauder, and this is scared confident. in this episode of scare confident we have Quincy with us today has been funny. I've shared with my audience that we're in kind of some transition with our care and today is a Wednesday and I don't have any care. And so Quincy is a tag along and our options.

To like stick her in a room and lock the door, which was probably not great parenting or to just have her hang around. We tried to put her into a coma with cocoa melon, but it's not working. So Quincy's going to join us. Quincy went to watch my phone, maybe. So today I have. Sam Johnson and her husband Bryce with me, Sam, Samantha has been behind the scenes with scared, confident, really from day one.

And, um, we can talk on a little bit about kind of how we came together, but the reason I'm having them on today. Is, I got a question a couple of months ago from a listener that asked the question. Um, have you ever experienced a miscarriage and has like the process of fertility been something that I've had to deal with?

And it's not part of my story, Jarrod and I have never had to deal with sort of the uncertainty of not being able to conceive and, um, have babies. All of my pregnancies resulted in babies. And so I also haven't experienced miscarriage. Well, I'm so grateful that that's not something I've had to experience it as something that Bryce and Sam have had to really face head on.

And we're sitting here recording and Sam is quite pregnant. And so we know the end of the story, but that's not always been the way it's gone. So, and well, maybe one of you start just by maybe just kind of quick step through your relationship.

Sam: We met in college. Um, didn't start dating until after college.

So we've been together for like 11 years and married for eight years. So that's a long time, I think, before starting kids, that

Brice: was something we intentionally did was we wanted to wait five years. And that's actually when we started trying to have kids, but that was a goal of ours just to make sure that relationally, we felt like we knew each other.

And really this is the time that you can't get back. Once you have kids.

Sam: And we were always in transition, so it never seemed like the right time until we were back in Indiana. So we lived in Arizona for a while when we came back to be with family, that's when we felt like, okay, we could, we could do this now.

And so how old are you guys

Tiffany: today? 33, 33 33, which by Midwestern standards is like a little bit old. You know, I think that that culturally is relevant. This idea of feeling a little bit. You're quote, unquote behind, or totally just at least in your head. So five years and you kind of start having start trying to have kids.

And then what?

Sam: Yeah, so we got pregnant and. And there was a lot going on at that time we had moved back, but jobs that we had moved back for, weren't going the way we thought they would. And kind of the baby felt like this, like Ray of hope for everyone, like 20, 20 sucks, but we're pregnant and that's so exciting.

But at our 16 week appointment, we went in and there was no heartbeat, a little

Brice: context for that, given that it was the pandemic. I wasn't actually able to go to the appointment. And so I was sitting outside in the car and got the phone call that price come in. There's no heartbeat. And of course I ran inside, but it was, it was just a different, different experience, you know, even losing a child, she had to be alone for

Sam: the.

And it was just, it was shocking, I think, because we had kind of made it past the point where most people miscarry. So we had, you know, been kind of cautious at the beginning. Like this could be a thing that could happen. We had had friends that had gone through that and we had watched it, but we had passed that point and felt very sure that everything was going to go well.

So then yeah, to go into that appointment and hear that we lost the baby was, was shocked.

Brice: We had told our families, we had told our, our parents and some close friends, like, like she said, we were being very cautious. So, you know, trying to wait until 10 weeks or 12 weeks to tell people, um, just in case something happened, but we felt like we were out of the woods at that point.

And unfortunately we weren't. And so as part of that whole experience, because it was a later miscarriage, we had to actually go to the hospital and she had to be induced and deliver. And

Sam: that was really tough. It was very traumatic and just. Again, I had heard of miscarriage, but I just always pictured it as you get your period.

And it was not like that at all. It was very traumatic, very difficult. We had to go through the process of labor. We were in the maternity ward. Like it just was, it was a lot to do.

Brice: It was. And on top of all of that, like the experience in the hospital was not good. Like, it wasn't even a, oh, it just happened quickly.

And then it's over a lot of things happened, bleeding and issues that we didn't foresee. And then to the point where she had to actually go in and have a surgery done and. All of that was just not on the table. Like we didn't expect any of that. And didn't think like, this would be our story. We would have a baby and that would be the way it

Sam: happened.

And it just all happened so quickly just over, you know, we find out we lost the baby. They say you should get into the hospital as soon as you can. So like the next day we were there delivering, and it's just so fast and so much to process. And then the next day we were back home with no baby and just a lot at once.

Tiffany: So in going through that, did you guys find you leaned into one another or was it more a time of, you know, not as much closeness, just because you were at different speeds through the process and your body was experiencing it, yours wasn't Bryce, you know, like how did that work for your relationship?

Sam: I think it brought us very close together, especially in 2020 where you weren't around a lot of people and our families came and supported us.

We weren't the extent where we weren't seeing family. They came and saw us, but it definitely pushed us close together. And it was two different experiences. But. We definitely helped one another through it and clung to one another. Okay. But she said that

Brice: I let you go first. Cause I wasn't sure. Well, you'd say no, I'm just kidding.

Yeah. I a hundred percent agree. Like I feel a little bit like maybe Sam and I are so close and not just because of that, but um, the way we treat our relationship and the way we treat each other as our best friends, I think really lends itself to that. But. So much more whenever we went through this and it was definitely, I wouldn't say it was a good experience, but it definitely helped us to see what relying on each other really looked like in the face of tremendous loss.


Sam: it made us realize that we really did want a baby. I think for a long time, we were kind of up in the air. Like, do we really want to add this to our lives? Like we have so much fun. Just the two of us. We could have a lot more freedom when it's just the, both of us. And then after that, it made us realize that that is something we really wanted and gave us like motivation, even though it was hard to keep.

Tiffany: So then you're in unchartered territory and there's almost like this healing that has to happen, but it's unguided. Right. Nobody really knows how to tell you how to do that. So what did that healing look like?

Sam: We talked to the doctor, they were never able to find anything that could have led to it. So they were just like, you know, you try again and you hope for the best, but we couldn't pinpoint anything in particular.

So it was hard to like step forward and be like, okay, we'll try again. We have no idea what happened or why it happened and it could happen again, but we just have to keep trying. And it did take a long time for my body to heal. I think being a little old. It just took a while for everything to get to the point where I was allowed to start trying again, six months later we got pregnant again.

Again, we never really struggled with fertility. We got pregnant very easily. It seemed, but it's just holding the baby. So we got pregnant again at the end of 20, 20, and 12 weeks. And we found out we lost that baby as well.

Brice: Yeah. So going through what we went through and then going through it again, You start to feel.

What I only can describe biblically as a heart of despair of there's no way forward. There's no possibility for us. I think we both felt that, and that's not even something that typically either of us really struggle with. And all of a sudden it was a burden laid onto us. That was really hard to overcome.

Traditionally, when you go through a loss, it's not followed up by another really equal loss, although they say it comes in threes, don't they badly. Yeah, I don't think that's true, but I think what that, like put on us was, uh, almost like a challenge or I think we had to think really hard about, do we do this again?

Do we try this again? Do we wait several more years knowing that we're 33 and we're going to deal with this same issue going forward. And it's only going to get worse because we're going to get older or do we trust. And so I guess the good news is we trusted.

Sam: Yeah. And I think after that one, I had a really good doctor that I just, I don't even know.

I just call it a God thing because I wasn't meeting with her regularly. But after that miscarriage, they just hooked me up with her to get checked out after the miscarriage. And she. Just decided right then that we should do testing. And most doctors don't test until after three miscarriages. So she walked us through the process of testing.

So for the first several months of 2021, I was just constantly at the doctor's office, getting blood work and doing various tests to try to find out why I was having miscarriages and later miscarriages at that. And miscarriages that didn't come naturally for both. I had to be induced. So it was. Good to actually have someone that cared enough to follow through and to see, and to really dig into why it was happening.

Instead of just saying while you're just going to have to try again. So that felt good. It was a lot, and it took just a lot of time. And I don't know if we ever got super specific answers as to why they happen, but it felt good that someone. Did try to find out. But again, I think after the two in a row, it was very hard to think through, well now do we, do we continue to do this?

Because again, it took my body a long time to heal after that. Do we keep trying this or do we need to look for a different way to have a child?

Brice: Yeah, I think the other really interesting thing is, okay, you, we went through this twice, heartbroken. We finally get pregnant for a third time in a couple of years span, and we are sitting on the other side of this.

So I can say this with a lot of joy, but at the time when we got pregnant, it was just fear. That's all that sat on us. We waited even longer than ever before to tell anybody just out of fear, we. Didn't prepare for the baby until really 20 weeks in, because of fear. And a lot of that, we sympathize and empathize with others who have gone through that because it's a real, it's real to fear and to feel that fear tying it in.

So I think that ultimately. Our goal now. And my goal especially is to share with people to talk about it. I am keenly aware of the fact that in the male culture that I live in, I've never heard about it before. In fact, it's not even something that I think of it as an issue, but after going through it twice, I found out 10 to 20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage.

That's incredible. It's insane. Why don't we talk about it. And so I encourage everyone to talk about it. If they're comfortable and to find people, they can be a sounding board. You

Sam: guys are very

Tiffany: different processors. And even as you talk about the story, Bryce, you, your body wants to feel emotion and Sam, that you're able to talk about it in a way that's like very fact oriented.

Like we don't need to reprocess our emotions. We already know the end of the story. And so how did you guys support each other in that? Because Sam is important for you to process the emotions. You just sent your first processing and Bryce, it is important for you to be able to rationally say like, this is the facts of the situation.

So how did you guys support each other in your, I feel like you guys are like really different sides of the coin. Yeah.

Sam: I would say that's always a struggle for us. Like I get annoyed with his emotions and he gets annoyed with my facts and it's, it's always a struggle. So it's hard to find that balance and to support one another.

I don't know how he did it.

Brice: Well, there's those times in our relationship when we cannot understand each other, because we are so different, but then sometimes I always equate it to sort of, um, this idea of a rollercoaster and you're on it, but you're on like one of those dueling roller coasters and you're going back and forth and you're never sinked up.

Right. Sometimes that's what you need in a person. And I feel that for Sam, um, I need some of her rational steadiness and. As a very emotional person and a very external processor, I need someone who can help me get through those kinds of situations. And yeah, I don't know how we did it exactly, but I do know that our relationship really lent itself to us getting.

Sam: Yeah. And I would say he helped me just process emotions, like allowed me to have them when I had them, like there for a couple of months. I probably sobbed every day at some point. And for me that was a lot, like, I don't cry that much. So it was, it was a lot to, to feel and he was great with it. Like totally allowed it super supportive and kind during it and made me feel okay and normal.

And it's okay.

Brice: And she let me hug her and that's a big deal.

Sam: I feel like we hug

Tiffany: hug

Sam: once a week

Brice: on a scheduled regimen. We hug for sure.

Tiffany: CMS, you were like in the throws of your emotion and not to like dig back into the wound of it all, but what was your body crying for?

Sam: I think I had gotten to the point where I had seen our future and then was with a child. So then to lose that, it just felt like, what is our future?

Like what's going to happen if I had seen Christmas and we were bringing home a child and like all these things that were exciting. And then all of a sudden, all those pictures were taken away and I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what I was supposed to do or how I was supposed to move forward because in the midst of all this, I'm also.

Trying to figure out what I want to do as a job, as a career, and thinking through that as well. And for a while I thought, well for now, I'll just take care of our baby and we'll figure it out as we go. So then when that got taken away, It felt like everything was gone. Like, what am I going to do with my time?

I just had kind of set aside. I'd been a teacher since I graduated college and I kind of set that aside. And then I was like, well, I'm not teaching. I'm not going to be a mom. What am I going to do with my life? I felt completely like purposely.

Tiffany: What's maybe we just take that into talking about how we came together, tell the story as you remember it.

Sam: So from what I remember, I had. Just had the first miscarriage. I was probably a month later, I had turned down a teaching offer because I knew that I didn't want to teach anymore. And that felt very wrong. Plus, I had just gone through this very difficult thing and jumping into teaching during COVID just felt terrible.

So I knew that I couldn't do it just mentally, emotionally. I knew that it would be a very bad idea. So I had turned down a really good teaching job. Talk to my friend Brandy. And she was like, well, I have a sister and she needs help.

Tiffany: My life was unraveling at a rapid speed. Yeah. That's right. So Brandy is my sister.


Sam: Yes. So I had talked to Tiffany to find out like, what does she need? And she was like, well, my, my daughters are home from school. I think it was it just Aubrey was home at the time. Maybe. Yeah, I think so. Abra is in middle school and she just wanted someone. Yeah. Be there during the day to help her as needed and tutor

Tiffany: Dara and I were both trying to run, you know, do our jobs. We had a baby and we had no care. We had no help and Opry her temperament is she like, she does very poorly and uncertainty. And so kids like that who are thrown in a COVID, she's a firstborn, high-achiever all the things. And I knew if she was in front of a virtual teacher, she doesn't have the courage to sort of stop the train and raise her hand in front of the whole class.

So to speak and ask a question. And then I knew that would snowball into her not having confidence in her homework, which I knew it snowballed. Like I just could see that this was going to happen. It would just be a mess. And I didn't have the time capacity to sit beside her. Or if the printer wasn't working, everybody was bad at this.

Teachers were bad. Kids were bad, parents. And so I was like, Sam, I just needed to sit by her and basically make sure she eats lunch and kind of understand what the teachers are teaching and it relieves so much pressure for us as a family.

so we did that for several months, but yeah, it was time for the kids to get back into school. Restrictions or beginning of the lift. And I had just could tell then now that I know Bryce and Sam's relationship, I sort of understand better why she does well with me because I'm in a perpetual state of emotional.

I know I need Sam to think. I'm funny. I needed 11, my

Brice: dress

Tiffany: and Sam was didn't need direction. Like she could read the room, she saw like three steps ahead and it was just. I don't know, I just knew her brain was really good. And so I said, Hey, I'm gonna start this podcast. I actually don't know much more than about it than that either.

Would you want to come on and be a show runner and figure this out and just kind of come into my

Sam: world? Yeah. I remember being like, well, what's a show runner and we were both like, I don't know. I don't know. Rachel told me to find a show runner.

Tiffany: It was like, what do they call the dancing gifts? Like we would look up everything, every definition to every word we had.


Sam: Yeah, totally. So she asked me to help her with a podcast and I took a few days to think about it. Cause I was like, I don't know anything about podcasts. I don't know what a showrunner is. Like, it just felt so far beyond what I saw myself doing. But at the same time it felt like it was where God was leading, like adjust.


Tiffany: I was just like, I just like you and I will help if I don't get annoyed by the person who was helping me, but I knew we could figure it out. And I knew you were very resourceful and teachers have to learn how to learn and because they're teaching all the time, you know? And so I was like, I knew that muscle was part of YouTube.

So we've been on this journey for like a year. I would be curious to sort of hear as I went through my fear journey and was beginning to kind of chew through. Getting rid of the self-doubt and getting rid of the barriers that sort of my heart was trying to put on my dreams. You were processing alongside me.

You sort of had to participate in the content just

Sam: by proximity. I remember you had already recorded your fear interview. When you had asked me to do this, it had already been recorded and was kind of set aside and it was going to be the first episode. So you had asked me to listen to it, I think before I even took the job.

So I remember listening to it and not being a big part of why I decided to move forward, because I could feel fear telling me that I could not do this, that I did not know what I was doing, that I just needed to go back to teaching or do something that I was comfortable with, but I felt. That was fear.

And I needed to say no and turn towards the thing that was scary and walk forward. So that was a big part of it. And then yeah, processing through the miscarriages and, and what fear said through all of that, there was so much that fear wanted to tell us, like we could never get pregnant. It'll never happen.

We're just going to lose more babies. Like it was. Constantly telling us those things. So it was a battle always to face fear and to move forward. Even when we didn't want to Bryce, what have you

Tiffany: sort of seen in her over the last year,

Sam: being

Brice: able to go along Sam's journey through our years of marriage and dating.

When we lived in Arizona, she was a teacher and. I think fear and anxiety was a gripping factor in her life in a different way, maybe than it was when we miscarried, but it was still there and it was very present. It still rears its ugly head. But at the same time, I've, I've not seen her be so confident and fearless as, since she's worked with you, honestly, truthfully, and it's really exciting to see that because I know that's what she desired.

I knew for a long time that she just felt overwhelmed and. Nowadays sometimes I'm like, where's this confident girl coming from. And the great thing is like, that's who I married. Like I love Sam. I don't love Sam sphere, but I love her. And so I think that it's really exciting that I get to see and live with her most of the time now.

And so that growth is, is truly. And it's crazy because she is a background person, but she's the most foreground background person I've ever met. She's electric. She's awesome.

Tiffany: Does it feel different to you when you hear him talk about that anxious version of you versus the way that you

Sam: feel today? Yeah, definitely.

Especially, I'd say in the last couple of years, well, probably through all of teaching, I was a great teacher, but it just made me super anxious and it just never felt right. But I was always too afraid to walk away from it because that's what I studied in college. And I knew I was good at it, but it just made me a very anxious person.

So it is like thinking back to how I was then compared to how I was now. It's very new.

Tiffany: That's crazy. Cause I've never experienced it. Maybe you just feel like the whirling dervish. That is me, but I have not seen that. I mean, I almost always am asking you to do something you've never done before. We're starting to see a little bit of patterns now, but, and you'd just like totally boss up and make it happen.

It's amazing.

Brice: Some of that though is healthy and good for a person like her who was doing the same things. So often that when, like, for instance, when she would go back to school in the fall, it was like a week before school started. It was just really hard on her. You always felt the most anxious. With that anticipatory thing and having these jobs for you, where she never knows what she's going to do.

She doesn't have time to think about whether or not it's going to cause her to be anxious or not. Honestly, it's really fits really well for what

Sam: I just have to jump in and pick up and go. And there's not time to like think and be anxious. You just go for it. So we should talk about the fact that we did get pregnant.

You talked to a long time to. This time to, to try again, like we waited much longer, like seven or eight months. So we had gone through testing, but I remember I just had a million excuses for not try and again, like I was like, well, it's like the summer. So let's have, let's just like do fun things and all there's like this party happening.

And I want to be able to drink at the party or something. Like there were just, there was always an excuse. And so I kept making up excuses and finally, Brian. I think you got to the point where you're like Dow, we can't just keep waiting.

Brice: I also think that it just felt right for both of us. I just distinctly remember it was right before we went on a big trip together, out west.

So we can't a lot. And like the Tetons and Yellowstone

Sam: hiked excessively,

Brice: so many miles of hiking, which is our bread and butter. We love it, but it was just Sam and me. Together in the quiet together. And I think that was so, so beneficial in that season. We are so bombarded all the time with noise, and that was critical for us to be able to feel like we're ready.

We can do this, we can do this together. It took both of us to do it.

Sam: Yeah. So we came back from that trip feeling like, yeah, we could do this. And we found out we weren't. That's awesome. Yeah. And so here we are 30, 35, 35 weeks. So

Tiffany: it's happening. It's happening really,

Sam: really happening. I actually feel like it was happening too.

It's definitely always a journey. It took us until about 20 weeks to even feel like it was real and start telling people, which then made us feel very behind on getting everything right. You're going to

Tiffany: love this baby so much. It's going to be great. Okay. Let's jump to some advice here. Let's start with couples who are going through the miscarriage process.

What advice do you have for them?

Sam: Yeah, I think one was advocating for yourself because I felt like after the first one, they just told me like, oh, that's just, it happens. And you're part of the 20% and move on. But I think I probably could have pushed harder to get some answers, to try for testing at that point.

But I didn't know it, I was just told it was. So I just like get, let go. Um, and of course I liked research and stuff, but I would say advocate for yourself and ask questions and don't be afraid to ask questions and don't let them tell you that it's normal and move on. Like, if you feel something or you have questions, ask.

Brice: For us guys, it's really important to realize that we have a couple of roles and everybody thinks about the role of support. And I hope so, at least, and, and that is obviously true and being there for her, but also advocating for your wife or significant other is really important too. And the way that looked and looks for us is she depends on me to say no to things, to make sure that people don't.

Attack her unknowingly,

Tiffany: meaning like say something insensitive or something? No,

Brice: no. What the triggers are and combat those triggers be supportive in that way. And then finally I said it before, but really I think it's important to talk.

Sam: Yeah to other people too. Cause we would just find so many people that had gone through it before.

And we had no idea because you know, at that point they had maybe two or three kids and we had no idea that they had also struggled with miscarriage. So the more we talked about it, the more we found comfort in that other people had gone through it and then had come out on the other side as well. I

Brice: found it really shocking and amazing that it's taboo.

I don't understand why it is. Honestly. I

Sam: think that shift.

Brice: I do. I agree with you. I think for a long time, from my parents' generation, it was just never talked about for whatever reason. And now, um, we see it more and more, but for those out there that are going through it, like as a couple, I want to be her loudest voice for her when she can be.

And I think it's important to advocate in that way, in a way that she feels comfortable with. But at the same time, like sharing. The journey and helps other guys understand like what it's like to go through it, because I can tell you that I was not prepared at all, and I don't want that to happen to other men whose significant others are going through the same thing.

Sam: What about

Tiffany: for those who, you know, a friend or a sister, someone in their close circle is going through this? What, what does helpful support look like?

Sam: And one super practical thing. People brought us meals and you're going through so much mentally and physically. It's not necessarily a super fast thing, a miscarriage.

So it takes a toll on your body. And I really appreciate it. I wasn't expecting it, but I appreciated that people brought. Food, so that we didn't have to like, think about that aspect of our lives. So it was like, we didn't have to worry about taking care of that part. We could, someone else took care of it.

So that was a really practical way. That was super helpful. And.

Brice: And on the same token as us being able to advocate for ourselves and speak out, one of the best things that's ever happened was people listened when we needed to talk, they just listened. They didn't have to solve anything for us. There's no solution to it, but they actually just.

Linton ear to our situation. And I think that's so beneficial. We did have some friends in Phoenix go through something similar. And I just realized through that process that they needed just a shoulder to cry on someone to talk to. And, um, I really appreciate them for helping us through this situation as well.


Sam: can be awkward to ask questions or to talk about it. And I think there are times when I did not want to talk about it, but I never minded that if someone asks and then sometimes I really didn't need to talk about it. So someone asking help, whereas sometimes it felt like they tried to avoid it. And that felt harder because it was like we went through something really hard.

And for someone to kind of pretend like it didn't happen or, or push it off, felt harder than to, to face it. We needed to face it and we needed to talk about it. We didn't want to avoid it.

Brice: Get real, you know, don't try and pretend that you're not in pain. It's okay to be in pain because pain isn't for.

Tiffany: Um, the other side, is there something that people say that they mean to sound helpful, but actually comes across as too hard?

Brice: I have one friend who says it in a way that does work and I don't know the nuances to it, but sometimes people are just like, oh, well, I'm sure you'll get pregnant again. I'm sure it's going to be fine. Almost play it down. You know, I have a friend who, on the other hand of that says, like, I believe I believe that you're going to be okay.

And that I believe that the Lord is going to bless you with a child. There's a distinct difference between those two of like, self-confidence that I just know you're going to be fine versus I have faith that you're going to be okay. And I think that distinct difference in how you interact with people could really be benefited.

Sam: I think another thing people would say after the miscarriages, like, it'll be okay, one day you'll have it child and, and you'll look back and you'll realize that God was working. And that's like a nice thing to say, but at the same time it could have been like, now I'm here at 35 weeks pregnant, but it totally could have been that wasn't possible for me that there was something wrong with me.

So it was nice of people to say, like, I get what they meant, but it wasn't necessarily true. So I feel like you have to be really careful. With, especially to someone who hasn't had a baby yet. And doesn't actually know that that's the case. There were times where I'd be like, okay, that's nice, but we actually don't know that that's not a truth yet.

Um, and I'm thankful to be here and be so pregnant, but sometimes I still think about that and, and feel for those that are still going through miscarriages without knowing if it will ever result in a baby. Cause it might

Brice: not. I think in the throws of disbelief, don't try and convince somebody to believe that's not helpful whenever they do end up when you, your faith is realized and they do end up having a baby, you can celebrate with them, but there's no really need to prove your rightness in the.

Tiffany: Well, I appreciate you guys sharing your stories. So like real and vulnerably, you've both been such a blessing to me and our family and Sam, your energy into this project with me. Sincerely. It wouldn't be what it is without you. And so I'm on the microphone every day, but. Behind it, making sure I get here and helping to, you know, make sure that we're really staying true to this idea of helping women and helping couples really passionately pursue a life that has purpose and meaning.

And as you guys step into an, and you know, when we talk about a passionate pursuit of a life of, and I'm excited, Be part of the journey and I'm grateful that God has brought us together. So thanks for joining today. And I know it's, this is going to be a really helpful conversation. My mission for scare confident is to help women confidently pursue a life of, and, and I want to be available to you.

Passionate about vulnerably, stepping into my stories so that it can help women. This is about creating the resource that I wish I had as I was going through this journey. So if you have questions, comments, or feedback, I'd love to hear from you text me at 3 1 7 3 5 0 8 9 2 1. So here's what this tool is.

It's a personal number that I've set up for scared, confident it comes straight to my phone and. It allows me to see an us to interact with one another, like directly. So I can text you back and answer your questions. So this opportunity to be able to interact directly, not necessarily have to jump through the algorithms of social media, but have a really a direct conversation and relationship is what I'm really excited about with this project of security.

If we have just one, the whole project will be worth it. So 3 1 7 3 5 0 8 9 2. One is the way that you can get in touch with me and don't think your question's stupid. It's not, we're all wondering the same thing. So step into

Sam: courage, ask for help

Tiffany: and help other people who have the exact same questions, normalize their journey.

Thanks for sharing this with me.

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