I Am A Failure
Nathaniel: All right, Kyle, you are not Kyle. You are. And the most important thing is to make a distinction between you and fear. And I'm asking fear. About Kyle,
Kyle: you are about ready to hear my fear interview with Nathaniel McGuire, who is a life coach and a marriage and family counselor. In this experience, he asks you to take on your fear, which means you actually step in.
And take on the personality of fear in third person, as you listen in on my fear interview with Nathaniel, walk with me through the process and ask yourself, what is fear saying to you?
Nathaniel: Fear? What is the situation where it's easy to influence or cause Kyle to worry or panic? What is he doing? Where is he at?
Kyle: Uh, I can usually cause Kyle panic, when we are in social situations where he feels like he has the potential of being judged by other people. So anxiety, when you're walking into a room or you're going to a party or you're meeting people for the first time is usually when I can cause panic.
Tell me other scenarios. Uh, challenging situations at work can cause panic and fear where he will not tackle something challenging because he is too afraid of failing, uh, for, with a big challenge or project or whatever it is. He tends to get it done, but maybe could have spent more time on it. So it's more, he avoids challenging situations.
Nathaniel: So in challenging situations and, uh, social situations, what is it you tell him is going to happen? Social
Kyle: situations is the person that he is meeting or the people he is hanging out with. He won't meet their standards and I really. And making up what those standards are
Nathaniel: and, and the challenging situation.
What is it you're telling him or making him fearful of that's going to happen?
Kyle: He isn't going to deliver the right answer or project or guide. His team in the right direction and they're going to fail or he is going to fail. He is not going to be seen as worthy of the position he has been given.
Nathaniel: So in essence, you tell him he's in both situations, he's going to fail.
Correct. And when he's judged, he is not living up to the expectations of those who are judging him. So he's failed there too. Correct. And when you tell him that that's going to happen, but does he ever believe.
Most of the time, most of the time. And then how does that make him feel when he believes you?
Kyle: He feels inadequate. Uh, we talked about the not worthy newness, that feeling of not being in the right position, or what's the saying that you human say sheep in Wolf's clothing?
Nathaniel: It sounds like what you tell Kyle.
Is that he's not worthy. Yes. And when you tell him that, what does it do to his energy? Does it give him energy or take energy away from him?
Kyle: Most of the time it will take energy because of anxiety.
Nathaniel: Is it possible that he doesn't really realize how much this is you doing this and not him? That you are overwhelmingly telling him that he's going to be judged in a situation that he's going to fail in a situation. Is it possible that he just doesn't realize like how much this is you fearful?
Nathaniel: 100%. What do you think would happen if he knew that this was you and not him? And he could delineate the difference between you and him. And he could clearly see that, oh, this is just. Feeding these thoughts and saying these things, what do you think he would do?
Kyle: Well, other than the obvious answer of he, he would be less restless. I feel like he would be able to tackle. Feelings of inadequacy head-on and understand not the head trash that's given him, but the true feelings of inadequacy, where they come from. So like an under an understanding,
Nathaniel: I have an understanding.
You don't want them to know the difference between you and him. I would prefer not. You would rather him think that you and him are one in the same. What's the goal you have for his life? Him
Kyle: not being. Successful and really anything, because if you look, if you view where he puts time and energy, it would be social situations with family and friends and it would be career.
Nathaniel: So you really, you just want them to fail. That's your goal for his life? Yeah. Is he aware of how much time. You spend with him, how much time do you think you spend with Kyle telling him he's not worthy in situations
Kyle: most of the day,
Nathaniel: tell me the situations where you're telling him he's going to fail. He's not worthy where he's going to be judged and no matter how much you're in his ear, telling him that. Where's he at? And what is he doing when he doesn't listen to?
Kyle: Well, most of the time it will take a while, but he won't listen to me most of the
Most of the time, no matter if you're in his ear, he still pushes past you. What are the circumstances?
What is the environment? What is he doing, where he pushes past you? What is
Kyle: that we're talking about from the social situation? He usually eats. No. See, he needs to go to something and he will just go, eventually he'll have support systems with him, friends or his wife or parents or whatever that will be with him from a work environment.
He'll just eventually do it. Why? Because he's afraid. Cause I keep pushing him to be afraid of failure. And eventually he does it because he doesn't
Nathaniel: isn't there also a part of. Kyle that when he is in his certain element, that he really believes he can succeed. What are those environments where he believes he can succeed?
Kyle: He usually believes he can succeed. When, when there is chaos, when it's so chaotic that it's his responsibility to solve something where it's up to him to make, um, quick decisions to save a situation is usually where he pushes back pretty hard.
Nathaniel: So is he gifted in those areas?
Kyle: Yes, because he usually succeeds.
Nathaniel: Do you tell him that? I don't know. You tell him that the reason he's successful is because he's a frayed to fail. So that's why he pushed you try to make him believe the hat. Like he needs you to succeed.
Kyle: Yeah. Correct.
Nathaniel: Is that true? Yes. That's what you. That's what I tell them. Yeah. I hear that. The reason he succeeds is because there are certain areas he's gifted at. It's not because he's just afraid to fail, but you don't tell him that.
Kyle: No. Why would I tell that
Nathaniel: you wouldn't, what do you think would happen if you realize he just doesn't need you to succeed?
That he just needs to maximize on his gift and he doesn't need to be. Motivated because he's fearful, he's going to fail. What do you think that would do to him? If he knew that
Kyle: my guess is he would probably try really hard to work on ignoring me.
Nathaniel: Yeah. I think you would. Yeah. Do you want him to do
Kyle: that? I don't. That would be lonely. Yeah.
Nathaniel: W, what is your goal for his life?
Kyle: My, well, my goal for his life is that he, he is so used to hearing fear and failure, or at least hearing the fact that he will fail, that he will never get past.
Nathaniel: Yeah, I think your goal is to control them because I actually hear Carl's is actually a pretty successful dude, but you don't tell him that and you even want him to believe that he is successful because of you.
So you want him literally to give you the credit? Yeah. For everything. Yeah. Absolutely fear. So.
Isn't there a essence of Kyle that actually has faith,
Kyle: faith in what?
Nathaniel: In his gifts?
Kyle: I would assume. So. I've never seen
Nathaniel: it. You've never seen it. Of course not. You don't point that out, do you? I did not know. You seem to point out all things. Fearful you, you actually sounded offended. I even said the word faith. You don't like that, do you?
Kyle: No, I don't. You got away.
Nathaniel: Yeah. I heard that. What are the areas you really believe Kyle is gifted at that you don't always tell?
Kyle: I believe he's actually gifted at. Most of the things I tell him, he's not. So social situations, the work environment, being empathetic, being a good father, being good husband, all those things where he probably is, but I don't ever want him to know that
Nathaniel: he's actually good at those things. Huh? Yeah. You don't tell him that.
No. So you're a liar. Yes. You're relentless. And you're relentless. No. What is it that you make Kyle fearful about in regards to faith? What do you tell him about faith to make him fearful about faith? What is it? I don't,
Kyle: Kyle doesn't really think about it.
Nathaniel: He doesn't think about what faith. He doesn't know.
What does he think?
Kyle: he is mostly thinking about his faith in himself and not really anything else.
Nathaniel: So can you tell Kyle why he doesn't think about faith? You want to share that with him?
Kyle: It really depends on the context of the work.
Nathaniel: Faith. You want to get down to the definition now, right? Yes. What faith means. Yeah, but you just said, Kyle, didn't think about faith period.
You didn't give a definite. You just said the man don't think about faith. I don't even know if that's possible, but probably not possible. Yeah. But that's what you just told him. Tell him why he doesn't think about the word faith. I am.
Kyle: I make him fearful of having faith in himself. Ultimately. It's about faith in himself that he doesn't believe he doesn't believe,
Nathaniel: or I make him not believe it.
You make them that way. Well, yeah, I hear that you make Kyle fearful of the word, faith period, faith in himself. You make them fearful about that. The, the truth is though the only way to overcome fear, the opposite of fear is faith. If you Rob him of faith, all he has to rely on it. And you make him scared of that word in general.
Right? Right. Do anything you need faith, but you make them fearful of that. Absolutely. You don't want him thinking about it, right? Why do you do that to them?
Kyle: Because it maintains his reliance on me. Yes.
Nathaniel: He cannot overcome you without an essence of fame. And you make him fearful of faith, but yet I hear when he works, what he's good at.
If you go on a chaotic situation, like you got to have faith in a chaotic situation, he can go into a chaotic situation and thrive and you don't remind him of that. You tell him he's in that chaotic situation and he's scared to death, but the truth is if you're scared to death in a chaotic situation, right?
How successful are you going?
Kyle: Not success.
Nathaniel: Exactly. But you don't tell them that? No. So the truth is Kyle in certain situations has, has powerful faith. Yes. Now this is the faith that sounds like he's talking about faith in himself, but it doesn't come from you because you tell him he's unwell. Sure. Yeah. You tell them, you tell him he's going to let people down.
Right. Got you. Do you like Kyle? Okay.
Nathaniel: Are you his friend? No. Do you tell him that? No. No. So what would Kyle do? If he knew that the, the very faith that he has is the thing he needs to overcome. You, the faith he's scared of. What would he do if he knew that he needed that to overcome you?
Kyle: He would work on overcoming me
Nathaniel: for sure. Definitely.
What is Kyle going to do about you?
Kyle: If, if I had it my way, he wouldn't do anything, that's what you do.
Nathaniel: But what is he going to do about you tell him
Kyle: he will work on building up the faith in himself to have a better understanding of how to overcome
Nathaniel: me. So when he says building up the faith in himself, what do you mean by.
Kyle: I imagine that he deep down understands that he is worthy and it's really up to him to figure that out on his own and not with me on his back.
Nathaniel: So, so he has to do it on his own
initially. Yeah. Initially, can he have any support to do.
Kyle: I don't think so. Is that
Nathaniel: what you tell him?
Kyle: No, I think he believes that you have to
be at peace with yourself before you ask for support from anyone else. So what I hear is that you, um, constantly make Kyle think about failure. You Rob him of his faith. You're reminding, remind him of things in the past where he has failed. When he wants to think back about successes. You don't want him thinking like, and you make him fearful of relying on faith.
Nathaniel: Right. And these things Rob him of his energy. And they also cause him to be very anxious and restless. And you try to keep him from going into spaces that he's invited to or could be opportunities. But you tell him that if he goes on these opportunities, he's going to be judged and not feel worthy. And so you try to keep him from these situations, right.
And you spend a lot of time in his head. Reminding him that his success actually comes from. Yes, but actually you don't remind him that it is you, that causes all of these toxic things in his life. You also make him believe he's not a good father, a good husband. And he reminded him that he doesn't have any empathy and compassion, or you remind him of his times where he didn't have empathy or compare.
Right. Okay. So are you good or evil?
Your laugh there? Kind of told us,
Kyle: but are you good or evil? I believe I'm good, but deep down. Yeah.
It's evil for
Nathaniel: sure. So you're evil? Yes. Do you tell Kyle that? No. What would happen if Kyle who's good with people? Good. In a chaotic situation. Can recognize when you're in the room and your energy is present and he knows that it's his faith that overcomes you and it's faith that can push you out of an environment.
What will Kyle do? Ignore me. And it sounds like Kyle, like if he puts his mind to something like he's relentless, right? Yes. So what would happen if he relentless? Understood as you attacking him and then he relentlessly wanting to push you out of his life.
Kyle: I would disappear. I'd have to go find a new host.
Nathaniel: So you're scared of Kyle aren't you? Yeah, I hear that. He's very gifted with people. I hear that if he could just really realize it was his faith and his gifts. And he didn't need to rely on you. His life would be different. So the last thing I want to know is what would his life be like without you tell him
Kyle: more fulfilled?
In what ways, when he is not worried about what I'm telling him, he will have the time, energy and mental disposition. Invest in him like his true self, not me.
Nathaniel: How can he investigate his true self when you refuse to let him go deep and to himself, he can, he can, you don't want him to do that? No. What, what will Kyle discover if he goes deep into himself,
Kyle: that everything I tell him is wrong.
Nathaniel: Yeah. Is Kyle A. Good person? Do you tell him that? No, you don't. What do you tell him? He is,
Kyle: tell him a lot of things. I mean, the exact opposite of what we have talked about today, like instead of being selfless, he's selfish, instead of caring about others, he doesn't, instead of being successful. Well, he's not.
Nathaniel: So how is it that everything you're doing is evil. And you're relentlessly attacking his mind. Kyle story says that he doesn't go about constantly being negative, constantly being evil, teaching people, how to listen to you and you, they exist. So if you exist, doesn't also like a healthy version and a healthy energy exists.
That would empower him. Yes. Do you tell him that? No. Okay. What do you tell him in regards to death and dying, or what is it you try to make him fearful of in regards to death and dying,
Kyle: and he will not have the impact he should on anything.
A lot of my drive is about impact and making sure it impact on others and that. I keep telling myself that I don't even know. I know I do. I think it revealed something new in the fact that everything that, that I strive to do, even though I'm telling myself that it is selfish is really just about impact.
Whether that's growing a company or the neighborhood you live in or the school or your kids, you know, it's constantly about how are you impacting others, which also is really stressful to even think about. But that's the one thing that I, I think that listening to that clip was about just the impact on others.
Like. How are my kids going to impact others? How are my actions going to impact others? The success of the jobs that I have? How does that impact others? Um, cause ultimately that's what I care about is other people's view of me, which is also fear-based. I think that the value deep down for all of us is that you will.
Love and you want to be loved. And I think love, love thy neighbor fits with helping others and it fits with most of the way that I try to live.
Nathaniel: When is the first time you remember coming into Kyle's life telling him that he's not worried? That in a social situation that he's going to fail, that he's not quite living up to the people around him. When's the first time you came into his life to tell him these
Kyle: things. He went to a baseball camp when he was five or six years old.
And. He definitely had a lot of feelings of inadequacy just because he didn't know how to play the game. And I'm pretty sure he got hit in the face with a baseball and he never played baseball again. Oh, I'm sure that would be the fun one. The first time he felt inadequacy because he actually did fail or, you know what I told him was failure, even though he was a child for the
Nathaniel: most part.
So you've been in with him for a long time. Sure. That's part of the problem. You really know him. Yes. And you basically are telling him you're going to keep him safe from embarrassing himself and getting hurt. Yeah. Cause, cause in that moment I would think he was human.
Kyle: Yeah. What he believed was humiliation, but was probably not
Nathaniel: the case.
You mean what you tell him was humiliation. Yes. Yeah. So you told him he was humility. He had failed. Yep. And you're there to remind him of his failure. Yup. You're still so in essence, your Hiles friend.
Kyle: Oh yeah. Best
Nathaniel: friends, best friend. Is that what you tell them? That you're his friend trying to keep them safe from you, humiliation.
Yeah. Does he believe you? Yes. And does he believe that he can live life without you? No. Cause that's what you tell him.
Kyle: That's what I tell him. Yes.
Tiffany: So, Kyle, how has your understanding of this small vignette from your past, which was not about baseball at all and not actually about your own experience with the success or failure of the moment, but more in awareness of other people. Judgment on what was happening to you in that moment? How has that shown up in your life today?
Kyle: It has all the time, all the time. I think that I care too much about the other people's judgment of me every day. And I, that, that has a lot to do with the fear interview in general. You know, it doesn't matter How many quarters we hit or how many speaking engagements I do, or how many networking events I go to, or how many people I meet or how many accolades I get.
I always feel like somebody is thinking he can't play baseball, that he can't do it basically.
Tiffany: So there's something here that I'm observing. Whenever you get close. To the emotional heart of what you're experiencing your body physically deflects you off with humor every time. And so this paradox of you talking in your fear interview about, in some ways, not being able to be fully present in your own life and experiences, because you almost are outside of it, sitting in the seats that you have.
Believing others are sitting and observing you almost joined them in that chair and observing your own life. Instead of saying no, I'm in my seat and I'm owning all that I'm experiencing, and I'm going to allow myself to go fully into the experience, even if it's like feeling yourself fall. And I feel you go to the edge.
And pull back with humor and go to the edge and
Kyle: pull back. What's interesting is that a lot of my memories of inadequacy was self inflicted because I don't remember like, like specifically when I caught the ball or got hit in the face or I was crying and I couldn't find anybody to console me. I don't remember other people like laughing or it was just all self-employed.
I think that's also a reason why it's hard for me to claim a happiness through success, whether that's kids or work, because I never feel like it was me, but I think a lot, a lot of the fear is self is self-inflicted.
Tiffany: How many people in a given day or week, either inside the walls of less than are outside, reach out to you for advice, just estimate,
Kyle: uh, five a day.
Tiffany: Five people a day. Yeah. Okay. Because their assumption about what's in your head and experiences, your collective observations about the world. Is it wise or foolish? So I think it's interesting. The external world says five people that I think that's probably okay off by three X, but really that you don't trust your own thoughts.
External people would say there is good in the way that you assemble find context in extract learning from make observations, have unique perspective on. And yet you aren't willing to sort of trust that in your own mind, correct?
Kyle: I think it goes back to I, no matter what I say or do, I'll never fully believe that it's true, like deep down.
And I honestly, I don't, I have no idea why. Why that is.
Tiffany: So when I was getting ready to go through the sphere journey, I knew in my subconscious soul that I had a journey I needed to go on to be able to get a more complete understanding, because I felt fear it was omnipresent every minute of my life. And like you, I could overpower it, but I knew there was a deeper level of understanding that I needed.
I was certain that if I went on this journey, what was going to happen was that all of those relationships closest to me,
And that at the end of it, I would have understanding, but I would be alone. Um, And so I, I got to the place where I was like, okay, with that, for some reason, like I needed clarity and if I was alone, then I would deal with that. It was a different issue. And what I learned fear says to me is that if I step totally into things that I love and the things that give me energy and the person, I feel like I'm most myself and I am her that it would be too loud.
For everything and everyone around me. And that if I stepped into that, that I would become this self-indulgent monster, So what I learned is that fear wants to say, you are for self. You are going to be lonely. You're going to be an indulgent pig. You're going to be all about you and everything else is going to be dim and you're going to be alone When I came into this fear journey of, I started mine out with saying, I can't even read emails when people send me when I know it's positive news, I can't.
I can't open it. I don't want to believe it's true. They'll and it's like, those emails would literally sit on open for three, four weeks and it was deflecting that I just cannot handle believing anything. Good about me as true. Yep.
Kyle: Well, what's interesting is that I I'm the same way when it comes to the positivity, like ignoring the positive outcome.
I will work really hard to get to a certain point and then not celebrate. Like we were talking before we came on, where I don't listen to any podcasts interviews, I've done a lot and I haven't listened to one. And that sphere it's like, I don't want to, I don't want to, I'm afraid that I said something dumb, which is 100% never the case probably.
And. Uh, you know, I worked really hard to get 40, under 40 when I was 24 and I didn't really celebrate. it was onto the next thing. Um, so I, uh, I think it all stems from this idea. Like people talk a lot about humility and being humble. I think humility in some cases comes from a deep seated fear.
Being found out that you're actually selfish and that you actually care about the accolade. And you know, when somebody congratulates me, I always say, oh, it was the team. It wasn't me. Or, uh, uh, I appreciate that, but I don't need, you know, you don't need to say that. When in reality, you do, you do need to take some responsibility for the success in order to fully understand why it worked and why you were successful, whether it was parenting or work.
And I think it comes back to the main point, which is I don't ever go deep. So I don't fully understand who I am to begin with because I haven't yet. Spent the time to understand it and not really knowing what actually I know I'm good at certain things because the, the world tells me that I am, that I then choose to ignore, which is crazy.
If you think about it, it's a crazy process. Um, but I, I keep coming back to this humility thing where you are. That, that you have to always be selfless and always have humility. And I think that especially being raised in a, uh, evangelical Christian household, where it was very much a part of it, um, you're just, you're terrified to recognize happiness or success.
Tiffany: I can relate to so much of what you're saying on a lot of different levels. Um, including likely the environments that we grew up in and, and a growth and understanding that, um, making ourselves small does not serve anyone. in the process of like even going through this.
Experience of scare confident and asking others like other good, good character people to walk this field journey is what does it unlock in the people around you? When you begin to stand confidently in who your talents are, because we coach our people all the time, you got to know your talent. I need you to step into them.
We will go faster, quicker. If you know what you're good at and you practice the crap. When we talk about that mechanically in our roles, but we don't do that kind of practice in our identity work. Right. And like who we are and everything accelerates around us when we're crisp in that the identity part of here's who we are and how do we stand tall in that?
And we practice this in the skills of our jobs and all that kind of like minutia, but we don't really get to the like pillar piece. Of standing tall on your identity. And then that gets applied in a lot of different roles that we play in our jobs, in our families, et cetera. I think that going through this process, it's the it's understanding what true validation is for you personally. Right. And, um, like I'm still searching for validation constantly. And I would argue that if you looked at it purely on paper, at least from a career perspective, I've been very successful in what I do.
Kyle: And I still daily search for validation from everything, everyone. Um, and I, and going through this process, I've learned that it's because I don't, I've never taken the time to fully understand myself. And so you just continually try to validate, validate, validate, validate. I'm glad that. Good at what I do do do I love what I do?
I don't know. I love the validation that it gives me, but I haven't, I haven't done anything else. Right. It's very interesting that I haven't done anything else. It's like, would I be a good singer song writer? Probably not, but I haven't really done it. Right. I play guitar for 12 years, but I was always backup guitar.
And the validation for me in a band was I got all of the gigs for the band to play at.
Tiffany: What is fear telling you right now, as we're on the edge of like launching some of these words to the outside world and. You're kind of on the edge of the cliff of like at least pulling the thread.
Kyle: I think fierce telling me what will happen when all these people that seek advice or work with me or my friends and family find out that I actually have no idea what the fuck.
Tiffany: If you would pull the people in your life that are kind of in your first or second circle, what percentage would say, oh yeah, I know about this stuff that Kyle's talking about in this fear interview and what percentage would say, are you serious?
Kyle: I would say a very large percentage would say they, they don't, they have no idea.
Very small percentage would say, yeah, I feel like that was the case, but I didn't really know it.
Tiffany: Why do you think that, is that a large percentage of people close to you would say, I didn't know.
Kyle: I think a lot of life or the way that I live is surface level and there's kind of strings of this throughout this entire process where it's very hard for me to go deep on certain.
Questions and topics because I just don't. I don't know. And I think that's also fear saying you actually have no idea when, when in reality I do. And I think a lot of it has to do with I'm afraid of opening up even to the people that are closest to me. Why do you think that is? I'm afraid that they will.
Disown me. The biggest thing is that they will not agree with my view or be confused because, you know, we've known each other for so long that they're finally figuring this stuff out or they just don't want it. They don't want to have the conversation, which might be the biggest fear is that if I bring stuff up or topics to talk about and yeah, And they're also surface level.
They won't go deep and they kind of shove it off. Like
we will uncover that the friendships or the relationships are actually not real to begin with.
Nathaniel: So Kyle doesn't want anything to do with you if he knew where, who you were, he would absolutely know you pull it up. Yeah. So what is he going to do about you? He is
Kyle: going to start ignoring me more than
Nathaniel: likely. That's what he, we're going to start doing. And you're, you're actually afraid because he's relentless when he sees you and he puts his mind to something to succeed.
He typically does it. And if he puts his mind to this he'll succeed and kick you out of his life. Yeah. And he will know that it's not, you, he's not successful because of you he's successful because of the faith that he has, his core beliefs and his gifts. Correct. All right. So you simply need what I call a fear statement.
This is something that when you sense or hear or feel fear, you say back to it and empowers, you may see makes a distinction between you and it and causes you not to immediately overcome. Okay, but it's something you say to yourself or out loud. Okay. Um, everybody has their own statement. Could it just be, fuck
Tiffany: while I hope this project continues to expand so that lots of people can experience the fear of. Right now we want to make available to you a guide so that you can lead yourself through the process. So it's a self guided fear interview. What I'd like you to do is text I'm in like I'm in raising your hand to 3 1 7 3 5 0 8 9 2 1.
I'm in. 3 1 7 3 5 0 8 9 2 1. If you want to take yourself through the self-guided fear interview so that we can all once in fraud, understand on the other side.