I am not fear
Nathaniel Mcguire: All right, Tiffany, this is the fear interview. And the most important thing is to make a distinction between you and fear. So you are fear. You are not Tiffany. And we're asking fear about Tiffany,
Tiffany Sauder: I'm your host. Tiffany Sauder. And this is Scared Confident. You're about ready to hear my interview. My fear interview with Nathaniel Mcguire, life coach, a marriage and family counselor here in Indianapolis.
And in this experience, he asks you to take on your fear to actually step in and take on the personality of if you're going to talk to yourself in the third person, as you listen in on my fear interview with Nathaniel, and as he's asking me. Questions and walk me through the process. I just invite you to put yourself in that seat to ask yourself the same questions.
What is fear saying to you? We are a, you letting fear take control of yourself, perception of your dreams. Of the things that you believe about yourself.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So fear, what is the situation where it's easy to influence or cause Tiffany to worry or panic?
Tiffany Sauder: I can get Tiffany's attention when she has a really big idea about something. And she starts to think through like anticipation and what might happen. And then she starts to think about what other people might think of that and through the lens of their expectations.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So you get her to worry about the unknown, what might happen and what others are thinking.
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. And also I can, I can get Tiffany to also think about. Why she's not qualified. She starts to see the things in her life that that would make her blemished in such a way that she didn't doesn't deserve to walk into that opportunity or to that idea.
Nathaniel Mcguire: What is it? You specifically tell her is going to happen in that situation where she presents or has a big idea what's going to happen?
Tiffany Sauder: I think that I help, I help her see that these things might create distance between her and people around her.
it's easier for me to get her to think about the things that. Don't qualify her to make it happen. One of the things I've realized there's three notes in the last three months, the people have written me that were thanking me for something profound, giving me feedback in like the, a good job that I did in 2020 and leadership.
And another one was an employee that was departing, that was sharing that this was like working in element three, changed her life. It took me probably three weeks. Have the courage to open up. Any of those notes and I can't make sense to myself about why, but it's somehow connected to this who thing.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So what did you tell Tiffany about what was going to be written in those notes? What did you tell her? What did you make her fearful about?
Tiffany Sauder: I think I make her fearful. That she can't handle the praise that it's going to become
about her. And there's something about being able to like, distinguish between me, Tiffany, her life. Like. As a vessel for good and helping Tiffany always remember that you don't deserve a bunch of great things to happen to you. And if they do, it's going to change you. It's going to be all-consuming to you. And that's going to create distance between you and the people that you love.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So you toe Tiffany that praise compliments could make her arrogant and that she is going to become arrogant.
If she accepts too much praise you're constantly making her fearful about accepting good compliments. Anything that could cause her to. Refrain from being humble is what you're telling her.
Tiffany Sauder: Correct. It's much more comfortable for Tiffany when things are hard and painful. That's what you tell her
Nathaniel Mcguire: She believes that.
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, she does believe that.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Uh, what do you tell her about what God believes about her? What do you say to her about God? What do you make her fearful about?
Tiffany Sauder: I can distract her and that God is a, um, and getting her to forget about his mercy and to get her to focus on works. And I can. I can distract her with a lot of busy-ness so that she doesn't spend time. like on her heart. I can, I can use fear. I can show up. In a way that makes her believe that she'll disappoint people. If she doesn't show up for them physically, that, um, that there's just a lot of physical work to be done, I guess.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So when it came to those notes, it sounded as if you knew. There were good things. And those notes, you actually knew that there are going to be some compliments and those notes. Did you tell Tiffany that? Yes. But you made her afraid of those good compliments by telling her if she reads those, it might make her become arrogant. And then what will she lose if she becomes arrogant?
Tiffany Sauder: Tell her she's gonna lose her discernment. I tell her that she's going to lose relationships. I tell her that she's gonna lose her ability to be able to be impactful. Some degree, she's going to lose some of herself.
Nathaniel Mcguire: What happens when she listens to you? How does that make her feel?
Tiffany Sauder: She holds back. She stops.
Nathaniel Mcguire: What does that do to her energy?
Tiffany Sauder: Brings her down. It gives her a bad day or a bad morning or a bad start.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So it sounds like you talked to Tiffany a lot constantly telling her that she better not accept too much praise or too many compliments, or she's going to become this terrible person. And when you do that, it causes her to hold back. It causes her to lose energy and to feel down. What do you think she would do if she knew the difference between her own thoughts and you telling her these things?
For instance, when it came to those notes, if she knew that this was you, it was not her, what would she do? How long would it have taken her to open those notes?
Tiffany Sauder: She probably would have opened it like on a normal pace. Like. You know, a day or an hour, depending on when she saw it first, it became something that I got her to work around.
Nathaniel Mcguire: And how long did it take her to open those weeks? What else are you in her life? Making her take weeks to do that she would do at a normal time. If you weren't in her life.
Tiffany Sauder: I used to be able to use her fear of conflict, not so much conflict, but her fear of the truth, but that doesn't work as well as it used to.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So, so what are you up to now in her life? What are you attacking her about lately?
Tiffany Sauder: I try to make her feel small.
Nathaniel Mcguire: But why, what are you, what are you up to tell her? What's her big idea that you're after right now?
Tiffany Sauder: Trying to give purpose to the last 20 years.
Nathaniel Mcguire: And what are you after as she's trying to do that, what are you trying to do?
Tiffany Sauder: I'm trying to slow it down. Do you tell her that? Yeah, I definitely tell her that. I definitely tell her that your friends might make fun of you definitely tell her that. The people who know you most won't believe it won't care, won't support it.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So it sounds like you're pretty relentless. Isn't there a part of Tiffany's life that you know, is actually inspiring to people.
Tiffany Sauder: I, I know that she has. A God-given gift of communication and being able to make big things in life simple and relatable. I know that she has that ability,
Nathaniel Mcguire: but isn't that a compliment? Like, that's a good thing. She doesn't, you don't allow her to accept praise. Like. You just said something really good about her, like, and she supposed to protect herself from a good compliment like that.
Tiffany Sauder: I think that one of the other things that I distract her with is like, her husband knows her best. And I tell her that.
well understand why you need to go on this journey.
Nathaniel Mcguire: What'd you tell her is going to happen. If she goes on this journey
Tiffany Sauder: that speaking the truth. About what life really looks like. Okay, it's going to leave me alone. It's going to leave her alone. And that we're asked to pick between going along with it. Bullshit of what people want you to say about them are stepping into truth and being alone. It is fear. I tell her. Just go with the easy narrative, just stick with the program and nobody gets hurt,
Nathaniel Mcguire: but you're lying because you're hurting Tiffany. Alrighty. You're causing her to be more alone by not telling the truth because what is it, you know about the truth? Fear. Tell us what is the truth? That's right. You know that don't you and you know that Tiffany is an amazing communicator who gave Tiffany that gift to communicate God. And what does God want her to do with that gift?
Tiffany Sauder: He wants her to speak truth, to make it normal and okay. That you can be exceptional and blemished the same time.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So lately you're being pretty relentless. Aren't you with Tiffany constantly tacking her mind telling her that she's going to be alone people aren't going to understand. I mean, you're basically saying she's going to hurt everybody, aren't you?
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
Nathaniel Mcguire: when you told her and made her afraid to open up those letters. And you told her what was going to happen when she opened them up. Did that happen? Did she become arrogant and become a terrible person? Did those things happen? No, it didn't. So you lie to her?
Tiffany Sauder: Yes, I did.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So you're pretty deceptive.
Tiffany Sauder: That's what I do.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Deceive and lie. When is the first time you came into her life when she was young and made her very fearful of what others think
Tiffany Sauder: when she was in sixth grade, she was picked on. Partially for her, her body and, um, and partially for her, her naive kindness and. It was a situation where there were two schools who came together in middle school. So just the friend dynamics changed a lot that year for her. And as she kind of, you know, resumed and sort of stepped into friendships like they were at before and they had changed and kids were mean to her. I helped her see that sometimes it's just better to be invisible and to not step into your leadership, to just go with what other people say.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So that's the problem you've been with her for a long time, telling her how to be safe. And never to go through that again, to be treated like that.
Tiffany Sauder: Bullied
Nathaniel Mcguire: Excluded. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of her greatest fears, isn't it?
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
Nathaniel Mcguire: To be mistreated, excluded, set apart. And so you're telling her that this big idea could cause her to be that. Nerdy little girl again, huh? Ostracized looked
Tiffany Sauder: down upon left by the people that you thought were your friends.
Nathaniel Mcguire: That's what you're telling her is going to happen. Um, actually, you're you have her like reliving this already in her mind, don't you? Something that hasn't even happened,
Tiffany Sauder: but consciously yes.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So tell us where she's at and what she's doing when you try to make her fearful. You tell her lies, you tell her, her big ideas, all the bad things that are going to happen.
You try to stop her progress and she doesn't listen to you. What is she doing? Where is she at? What's going on? Where she just doesn't listen to you when you tell her these things.
Tiffany Sauder: When she's surrounded by people who understand the vision and she's surrounded by people who wow. She can see in micro-moments are connecting to what she's been through. When she has the courage to say her fears, it gives me less room to live. It's when they're quiet and hidden that I have the most power.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So the very thing that gives her power. Speaking, these things talking openly about you with people she's connected with and love. That's the very thing that gives her strength to overcome you.
Tiffany Sauder: Yes. Do you tell her that?
Nathaniel Mcguire: No. No, you don't. It sounds like, well, she was bullied in school. I mean, and mistreated aren't you bullying her. Aren't you constantly telling her what to be afraid of and what not to do. Aren't you causing her to lose energy, to feel down on certain days and to be stagnant in certain areas. And you're relentless.
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Aren't you, the very thing that her gift to communication helps people to overcome you. And she overcomes you by doing that.
Tiffany Sauder: That's why I attack it. So fervently.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Yeah. Ever since she was a little girl, it's almost as if, you know, if she operates in her gift, she will overcome you and inspire others to overcome you. Is that true?
Tiffany Sauder: Yes. I also tell her. You think you might see what truth is, but you might be wrong. So keep your mouth shut.
Nathaniel Mcguire: They're so deceptive. What would Tiffany do if she could tell the difference between her own thoughts and you, what would she do about you?
Tiffany Sauder: I think she'd just steamroll me cause she'd be able to get momentum. She shot me down.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Yeah. Cause even with you in her life, then she still accomplished quite a lot, even with you harassing her. Right. So she could distinctly tell when it was you. Yeah. She would steamroll, you know that don't you?
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, I know that. When I make her world small and she focuses on herself, it stops her.
Nathaniel Mcguire: but you still can't really totally stop. Or can you, no, you can throw it roadblocks, but you can't stop her. Right. You can just tormentor because you can't stop her. So you might as well torment her while she's doing all these things that she's created to do. And you're really coming after her right now with this big idea. Cause you hate that idea, don't you?
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, I do. Because it starts to normalize fear for a lot of people.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Can she live without you?
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, she can
Nathaniel Mcguire: tell her that. No. What would her life be like without you?
Tiffany Sauder: her life would be full. Her life would be life would be satisfying to some degree peaceful. I think she would feel clear. If I wasn't there.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Do you tell her that? No. Now you tell her pretty much you tell her how you're going to keep her safe. You tell her she shuts her mouth and she doesn't speak truth to power. She goes with the status quo. Everything will be good. It's what you tell it. Right.
But I don't hear at all that makes her feel good. Does it? No it doesn't. And I hear that, you know, she's actually gifted to do all these very things that you're trying to stop her from doing.
Tiffany Sauder: Yes, she is.
Nathaniel Mcguire: You’ve been tormenting her for quite some time because you can't stop her, but you are relentless about this new, big idea.
Like you're pulling out all the stops. Like you hate this big idea. Why don't you tell her the truth what's going to happen when she does this big idea? I tell her what's going to happen.
Tiffany Sauder: She's going to have peace. She's gonna have community. She's gonna. Kev language so that people who feel invisible yeah. Feel seen and like things are like, life is normalized. She's going to experience. people who are attracted to the intimacy. That is vailable when there's transparency and perhaps some people who choose not to live in that world. Just going to experience truth made free.
Nathaniel Mcguire: You don't tell her that though. Do you know? That's pretty amazing. Isn't it?
Tiffany Sauder: She's going to do that.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Isn't she?
Tiffany Sauder: She's going to do that.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Isn't she pretty amazing. Oh, tell her she's pretty amazing. Isn't she?
Tiffany Sauder: She's amazing.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Yeah. You don't like to say that or you don't, but if I said some terrible things about her, you could say that. Huh? You don't mind her taking terrible comments, huh?
It's my comfortable, yeah. That's what you tell her, is that really comfortable? If she saw her daughter and a bunch of people saying terrible comments, and she saw you trying to tell her daughter that it's comfortable, what would she say about that?
Tiffany Sauder: Get out of my way. Thank you.
Nathaniel Mcguire: You're trying to make her comfortable. Listening to you tell her terrible shit about herself, right?
Tiffany Sauder: Yes.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Does God tell her to live like that? No. And he, he say things like she's fearfully and wonderfully made and no weapon formed shall prosper and greater is he, that is in her than he, that is in the world. And he says those types of things.
Right. She can do all things through Christ and things like that. Like. These powerful statements. So it's you putting her down and making her think it's more comfortable to be that way. So really you have her convinced that the reason she's made it this long and this far being a humble person, it's because she listens to you.
Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.
Nathaniel Mcguire: You kind of leave out her whole spirituality don't you. Isn't that why Tiffany has made it to this place that she is and the success that she has because she has faith. Isn't that? Why do you, do you ever tell her that
Tiffany Sauder: I don't remind her of that? No,
Nathaniel Mcguire: doesn't her faith that she really holds to have things like the golden rule that maybe other religious people don't listen to, but Tiffany actually believes in treating others.
As she wants to be treated. Doesn't that make her humble? Yes, it does. But you don't tell her that?
Tiffany Sauder: No, I don't.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Why don't you here with us to kind of things you say to Tiffany to humble her, the kind of names you call her, what is it you say to demean her, to make her feel so-called humble and your book that she needs to remember and always hold on to what kinds of things are you saying to her about herself?
Tiffany Sauder: Tell her you're not enough. And also that you're, um, that you're prideful. Um, you could do more that you're lazy. Those are probably the biggest ones. Yeah. That you're, that you're lazy. And probably that you're a little bit. Like sheltered and stupid in the sense that like you grew up in a small town, she, she hasn't seen a lot of stuff. And so there's a lot that you don't know about. So don't thank, you know, everything naive.
Nathaniel Mcguire: Same thing they called her when she was a little girl.
Tiffany Sauder: Holy crap. Is this self-protection too, because I've actually, you could find me on like four podcasts telling the story where the first recession, Oh, nine Element Three, like hit a brick wall, basically at a yard sale of like, you know, kind of crashed and. I tell people, I say, you know, I got through that basically by saying, okay, what's the worst thing that can happen.
I was like, well, the worst thing that happens is elementary goes belly up. I don't know. I, if I can't go through bankruptcy court, I spend five years of my life making a decent income to pay off the debt IO. And then we sell our house or the bank of closes on it and we end up in one of our parent's basement.
That's the worst thing that could happen. And I'm like, I can live with that. I guess I'll just keep going. Is that like a healthy way of dealing with fear? Or is that like, is that giving the lie power?
Nathaniel Mcguire: It's interesting because when you tell that narrative, the truth is there still isn't any unknown. There was no one known to that.
So even when you name that, I still hear faith because you're naming the worst case and you're saying it's not that bad. Right. See. So to me, that's not necessarily fear. Fear causes you to fight, flight, or be paralyzed. You are still operating, saying up fear. That's not shit. That's all you got for me.
Tiffany Sauder: I think that's how I bring it into command.When my experience, when I arrest power from the worst case and say, well, we're going to deal with that. Then what happens is we. Find people who have been through that. And we take one step at a time and we explore the heads, you know, in that way, in a way that we never expected life would need to bring to us.
But if that happens, then we deal with that. That's what we do, but I'm not going to spend my energy. I find in my own mind if, until I arrest control over, I'm like spending so much time driving around fear that I, I lose my bearings and I get really. Distracted. And when I can sort of arrest back power and say no, like, um, I am not going to let you take all these detours.
I'm not going to allow you to steal the moments I do have. I'm not going to allow you to, you know, distract me from the things that are in my control. I'm not gonna do that. So.
Nathaniel Mcguire: I don't know is that well there, so there's a distinct difference. One, you're naming the unknown and then you're going into the unknown and saying, but I can handle that and I can hear other people what you're about to do, give testimony that they went through that and made it the other one, your name, the unknown, and saying, I can't handle that.
What if this happens and this happens, and this happens. So when you talked about your big idea, And the unknown and the things that could happen, you become paralyzed and say, well, and yours, this is how you know, yours is a calling. I look at yours, like, I don't have a choice. I'm going to do that, but let's put it off as long as possible and let's become perfect and let's get everything right.
Because I got to go there. They'll tell, you know, when someone has a call in their life. So, and one you're naming the unknown and saying, I can do it. It will be terrible, but I'll do it. The other one you're saying no, that'll destroy everything. I can't, I cannot handle that. Right. So you can name the unknown and name these fears because the other thing is it's not necessary to speak them either.
Right? They keep speaking to the worst-case scenario over your life. So it won't catch you off guard when it happens. There's a power that starts to come in that too. Like let's not even do that. Right. But the truth is the point you do it. You'll name, all those things. So you're like an insurance agent, right?
Your name I'm all right. How much is it easier or how much are these going to cost plan together, but I'm going to name them all because that's my business, but I can handle it. Versus I hear them all and I cannot that's what has a big, is starting to become paralyzing. And that's how I know cause fear fixates on what's most important.
So that's how I know it's like a map of what you’ve created or supposed to do because it's putting all of its energy there. So now I'm like, thank you for your, you just told me what I'm supposed to be doing like that. You're, you're actually scared of that. You don't care if I do everything else, you just don't want me doing that.
So what do you know? You're a liar, right? So, you know, that fierce whole goal, really? It's not really after you, it's after your gifts, that's what it really wants. And the major gift is faith. That’s how you overcome. Fear is faith. Period. That's why that's the first thing people begin to question. It has to dismantle your faith.
And people think that it has to be like an ILR. Jesus know, we've all been giving an essence of faith and it's up to us, how to maximize it. You can't get an elevator. If you don't have faith, you can't get in the car. If you don't have faith or you would think you're going to die and you'd be paralyzed.
So we all have faith. It's how we use an exercise. It. And we learned with you, you get faith from being connected with people and sharing with them. This is actually where your faith comes from. And that makes sense because you're a leader. So your faith actually grows as you use your gift. But the other thing is, as you spend time with your creator, just embracing unconditional love and that you don't have to do anything.
You don't have to work like you don't, you don't have to do works or something. You don't have to perform for God, but just sitting in God's presence and know that Tiffany's loved unconditionally. And she does these things because she has love, but she doesn't do these things to get loved. So, Tiffany, what you're going to do now is you need a fierce statement.
It means that every time fear begins to talk to you, that you say this statement, it can be anything. It can be a paragraph. It can be something as simple as not today for it. Okay. But you're going to use this every time now that you become conscious that it is not, you brainstorming. It is not you processing or thinking or meditating that it is fear.
And you, you know, that it's fear because it told you what it does to you. It makes you think that somehow you're going to do something to be rejected. It makes you fixate on what others think about you and it tells you you're not worthy. Okay. And then it causes your energy to be drained. So every time that you are feeling these things, you now know this is not Tiffany.
This is fear talking to you. And you say the statement back to it out loud or in your mind, but you say the statement. So what does that statement for you that you need to say back to fear?
Tiffany Sauder: Do your fear. I will not let you distract me from the fact that I. I'm a complete and whole child of God. I will not allow you to distract me with being consumed about what others might sink with the narrative that I'm lesser than, but the narrative that God can't possibly work through a vessel like me, fear, I seek. To kill you. I seek to destroy you so that you no longer have the ability to do that. To me, fear. I know that God has placed and stitched talents inside of my being in a way that. His jealous heart, desires me to use those in a way that brings glory to him. The way that I can serve those around me. And I will not allow you to distract me with the lie that I'm doing that for selfish gain fear. I am free of you. And today I will choose. To not live under you,
Nathaniel Mcguire: you, it will not distract me with the lie that this is for selfish gain. That's the essence of it. That's what it constantly tells you. You will not distract me with a lie that is for selfish. So what you said. That was more of like a letter to fear, but if you sum it up, what is the quick statement? You'll say,
Tiffany Sauder: I think the thing that you summarized, which is like, I am not doing this for selfish gain. And speaking that out loud allows me to discern between the honest pursuit of my talents. And like, I would say just like natural ambition behind that, because it gives me energy. And then I feel myself being like, Whoa, uh, don't you go be in, you know, like, don't you go be great at that? That's what I feel like.
And I'm just like pulling the reins back, like, come, come, come back up. And then I'm like, but it gives me so much energy. And like, I have all these ideas and it's like buyback real quick. And then I'm just like fighting with myself. And so I think being able to say that declaratively. And somewhat prayed over my own heart. So that, and finding people who can keep me honest to that, I think is a, is a more realistic safeguard than just fighting inside my own head and practicing, releasing that
Nathaniel Mcguire: when you leave here today, guess what fear will be saying to you?
Tiffany Sauder: Uh, I left some stuff out. It didn't quite do it right. Um, and there's a whole lot more other than the thing we found. So buckle up buttercup.
Nathaniel Mcguire: So this is what is different today than the great news is Tiffany. You're not the problem. Fear is the problem. And the second one is there's no way you can be the same because you have just heard fear using your thoughts and your voice to communicate with you.
And you didn't know that before. And so now when it talks, you may get a couple of words in, but like nails on a chalkboard, you'll start to hear like, ah, that's you again, I am not talking to you and you are not my friend. I don't need you anymore. It was never you. That got me to the place that I'm at.
Okay. So you'll hear that and you'll be able to make a distinction. Okay. So if you're walking down a path, It goes right and left. You get discernment and peace about going left. You start to go left and fear jumps out and says, boom, what does that mean?
Tiffany Sauder: I'm on the right path. Gotcha.
Nathaniel Mcguire: That's right. So now fear is my indicator.
Tiffany Sauder: it's so fascinating
Nathaniel Mcguire: It tells me what to do now. Whatever I become overly fearful and anxious about. I'm like, thank you dummy. You just tell me what I'm supposed to be doing. It worked a little bit, but now I know for a fact what I'm supposed to be doing. So it becomes an indicator and a superpower when you walk in that.
And that's why it's so important for you to walk in that because that confidence overcomes those lies. But as long as fear can make you think and be insecure. Then it can keep telling you that dumb lie, right. That you're going to do something for false gain, like vain. Well, that's not why you do things.
So if you know that it becomes laughable, like fear you, something else like that silly.
Tiffany Sauder: I think what else is really illuminating to me from this process is when you said, like, when you feel fear, it's an, it's like a green light indicator to run. And even the name of it was scared, confident, this idea that like fear actually is a magnet towards this like sense of surety, which feels so backward to what, you know, our less evolved understanding of what life is about sort of places
I've spent the last couple of weeks. Just reflecting on what I learned from this experience. My big takeaway was that. It's hard for me to believe that there is good in me. Fear desperately wants to take the microphone to control the narrative in my head. That there's nothing good in me that I shouldn't share what I see.
That fear wants to shut me down. My question back to all of you is what is fear telling you? What's it saying, have you captured it as we step back and take a look and. Make the decision to arrest control back from fear. What is it saying to you? I'd love it. If you would have the courage and step into community with me as I think more about this idea of community, I think really what it is a group of people who have the courage to ask questions so that others too can benefit from those.
We feel so much more together and less alone. When we start to realize these questions that we have of life and of ourselves, we're not the only one asking them if you'd be willing to share, um, what you learned, what fear is telling you. I'd love it. If you'd share it with me and text me at (317) 350-8921. (317) 350-8921. Text me what's fear telling you. I'd love to hear and see how we can learn from it.