Live Q&A with Abby Parker on Personal Journeys

Live Q&A: Abby Parker

Abby: I felt like there was this pressure to like impress people. So like the people who are my peers now, like are often further in their career than me and have done this longer. And I need to impress them because I need to like, try to fit into that circle or they could be prospective clients or anything like that.

Tiffany: I'm your host, Tiffany Sauder, and this is Scared Confident. Have you ever looked at your choices and wondered what is my path? I got an email recently from Abby Parker, COO and Co-founder of Elate, casually asking if we could connect for coffee, I immediately thought this would make a great coffee over microphones.

And I'm so thankful. Abby had the courage to say yes, in a lot of ways. Abby's current situation reminds me of where I was in my mid twenties, newly married, running a startup and wondering do I have what it takes to be successful in the path that I had chosen. I had many of the same questions that she does now.

In our conversation, Abby and I discuss owning your choices and why uncommon outcomes require an uncommon effort as you listen, ask yourself this question. What outcomes am I?

Abby: So I was 26 when we started, uh, late and basically left Springbok on March 30th, got married, April 6th, took a two week honeymoon and then like then officially dove in to all things late and. Not only was that path really fun to share at a wedding when you're like catching up these people that you haven't seen in years, especially relatives.

And they're like, you're doing what, but yeah, I think incredibly isolating is probably like too harsh of a word, but that's oftentimes like how it felt. It's not that I feel like I'm above my peers. I feel like I'm in a different space as my peers. No longer have this like group of people that I had previously been with are just in a different space.

And not only am I entering like marriage and trying to figure out what that even looks like, but I'm choosing to go on this journey that I, at the time I'm like full on confident, like this is going to work. And then you start to realize like, holy cow, everyone says it's hard, but like, no, it's really hard.

Like, and feeling like you don't have space or like, An opportunity to share in that as difficult, because there's this, I felt like there was this pressure to like impress people. So like the people who are my peers now, like are often further in their career than me and have done this longer and I need to impress them.

I need to like, try to fit into that circle or they could be perspective clients or anything like that. And so it's like, well, like I've got my husband to chat with about this and he's fantastic, but there's, there's a difference there. And I definitely felt, I think, felt that like isolation in terms of like where I am currently, which I don't say that it's to say like, no one else feels that isolation, because I'm sure that we all do, but I obviously can only speak from like my own.

Tiffany: I remember thinking like this, I was like, well, if I want something different in my life, in my thirties and forties, Then the pack. Then at some point I have to break from the pack, which for me, it was my twenties, which is very similar to you. I got married at 24 for very similar path. I started it with element three years ago.

Really six days. Mine was like maybe within six months of getting married. So again, just a massive amount of transition. Trying to figure yeah. Being married out new career, but honestly it's a great time to do it because you don't have, I was like worst case. We lose our house. Like, I don't know. Nobody's relying on me.

My husband can provide for himself. we'll be fine. And I, I remember I was seeing my friends in careers get promoted, or some of my friends become, you know, stay-at-home moms and it just started to like the landscape changed. And there is a period where clearly one of us is wrong and it

Abby: might be.

I haven't put it into those words, but that is a hundred percent how it feels. I think, especially right now, a lot of my friends have now been married or starting to have kids. And there's a part of me. That's like, no chance. Can I do that? Now? There's a part of me that feels like you made this choice two years ago.

you can't have kids right now, are you what would happen if you did that? And it starts to build up. And I know that that's not true. And like, I know that you're a perfect example of someone who has had children and started a business at the same time now. One at a time, but there becomes this pressure there of like, should I be in that space?

Abby: Or like, one of us is wrong and like, am I the one that took the wrong path? And is this going to end how I want it to like, will I ever get to a point where I feel like I can reconcile these two lives that I envisioned for myself, like coming into one. And I don't feel like I'm at that point right now, but I believe that it, hopefully at some point I will, but it's certainly challenging when you're in the thick of it to see how that could possibly be a, a reality.

You are like four, six years out of college. When you chose to do element three and start that journey, why did you make that choice? Like beyond the, I want to be in a different place than 30 to 40 is like, why specifically element three. What made you believe in yourself enough to think like, I can do this because from what I can tell it, wasn't exactly right.

Background necessarily to do it no,

Tiffany: a hundred percent now. So I went to school for finance. I worked at Lilly right out of college, and I remember one day walking through the halls of the offices. I was working in this big gray, big company. And all of a sudden I was like, oh my word, I could have my best professional day of my whole life.

Or I could be sleeping under my desk and the exact same things that happen. Literally the exact same things. The stock price would be the same, everything like maybe one person would be pissed, but basically the same thing would happen. And I just felt so insignificant. And I've since learned that that significance is a really important part of my.

Soul. And so that idea of, and I'm, I had an awesome boss, I had a challenging job, you know, I had more benefits and pay than I likely was earning, all kinds of stuff, but I just felt invisible. And I think, I really believe this is the life path I was supposed to be on. And so some of that discomfort.

In my worldview was God just making me uncomfortable and unsettled on that because I had a different path I needed to go on. And so I kind of left not knowing what I was going to do, but just knowing something different was what I needed to do. And so. Through a series of events. I don't remember that clearly and make no sense at all.

I met who was the previous owners of what's now element three in a wild glug of audacity. I was like, Hey, I think I should buy your business. And they were like, that sounds great. And if somebody sells you something quickly, you maybe shouldn't buy it. And so my dad and I assumed a $30,000 loan that they had in the business, gave them an employment guarantee and the transaction was done.

And then that was how we got here. I wasn't the president at the beginning, I was just working in it as a marketer, which I have a finance degree. I've never taken a single marketing class in my life. I've never worked for a marketer. I've never worked at an agency. It's on paper straight failure. And like, if you did a business case on, does any city on the planet need another agency decidedly, it would come back as no it's a saturated market.

The barrier to entry is really low. Like it's just a disaster. Decision-making. But I just really was committed to it. And I think that was the difference. And so my dad was a owner in it, but not active in the business at all. And I went to him one day and said, Hey, I think this is what needs to happen.

And there's some stuff. And he's like, well, why don't you just run it? And that really wasn't my aim. I wasn't pitching for that. I had never pictured that, but he was like, you clearly have some vision for it. That and I just tried really hard. I asked a million questions. I think even you reaching out to me and being willing to like, be vulnerable about the stuff you don't know.

There are so many people that wanted to help me be successful, that I didn't even know that I had no idea. I didn't know that. And there's a lot of quiet, lonely moments too. I remember being in the office. At like 10:30 PM and like walking out to my car with the bugs and like humidity. And I remember getting out of bed at four 15 in the morning to like, get stuff done.

It is hairy, you know what I mean? But I was just committed. And I don't even know why it just was committed and not that there weren't moments of doubt. And what I found in almost 20 years of doing element three, that there are like these regions, mint, mint ceremonies. I think it's probably the same, like the same way for like, of like people who are in jobs for real, a long time.

Your life circumstances changed. The business changes stuff, changes in your life and you kind of have to go back through the process of. Am I committing to the thing it is now. And does that still make sense for me, but those first few years, I mean, put blinders on. I don't know if you experienced this, but like, I didn't make time for other things.

We just were focused. And I think that helped just like speed up the learning too. Cause it was just like all in.

Abby: I think we were sharing, like definitely resonates with like where I'm at right now. And it's hard because I think there's, there's a lot of talk about like, finding that balance and knowing that you can't drown yourself, but also if you don't count yourself, you're probably not going to succeed.

And so it's like, well, which of these paths do I take? And how do I try as best I can to blend those things? And a lot of it, I didn't realize. I guess I cognitively know we weren't like taking vacations or taking time off, but it wasn't until my husband had like all these abundance of days off that he's at the end of his fiscal year.

And like can take every Friday off for two months and stuff. You know, we've been at this for two years and we really haven't gotten anywhere. And how do I, how do I going to like, say balanced, but it's not, it's not going to ever be like an equal balance right now. It's just like, how can I take. A moment here or there, or like pour and invest in our marriage, knowing that my goal is that that is like the most important thing to me.

But also to your point, like I have to find these random hours to fit in elite stuff. There are so many commitments I have to have. And I think this is one of my other questions for you is thinking back to those early days, one of the things that currently ignore or else it will paralyze me, but I'm curious, like how can I work through this?

And curious if you felt something similar as like. The various types of pressure that can be put on you. Okay. I have this business and there's a lot of pressure to succeed on that. And then I have my employees and I feel an obligation to succeed for them because their livelihood depends on it. And then I have my family and people and friends that I don't want to let them.

Then I have my husband who I, I asked him to take this financial risk to start this thing and believe in me. And I, I don't want to let him down. And then like, at the very core of that, it's like, I don't want to disappoint myself or I don't want to embarrass myself honestly, or I don't want to let myself down.

My current coping mechanism with that is like, ignore that. Just don't think about it. But I sense that like, there's probably a better way to handle that potentially. And I'm curious, like, did you feel those pressures and if so, how did you like work through those versus just.

Tiffany: So I definitely felt the pressure for me. Some of it was helpful because it pushed me to perform at a level that I didn't believe I was capable of. Go harder, go longer, just fight for it. And so some of it was healthy for me. I also have had to learn that I naturally I'm very task oriented. It is my natural tendency to determine whether I had a great day or a bad day based on how much shit I got done.

And so then I believe other people evaluate me on how much should I got done? And this is like, what comes with age? Instead of being like in my heart, I am enough as a human. My performance is different than who I am as a person. And so in the relationships I have my value to the world. And my value to the people that love me has nothing to do with my performance.

It's just who I am. And my performance is what I do. And every place that my life has broken, it has been because I get so focused on the performance task. That's my natural bent. And I forget to show up as a human. I don't see myself that way. I don't understand that like emotional, relational part of life.

I'm like, I can just like mow over all that. And so once I started to understand that people in my life are there because they love me. It's not because they are connected to my performance. Does that make sense? Yeah, that I could say they don't care. I just care. I am bringing my expectation of myself into this relationship and I get my husband and I have also.

And the very early years took a lot of financial risk. He was also a business owner for the first decade of our marriage and I was, and so we took a lot of financial risk for each other and on one another. And I get that of like that pressure of if I don't deliver. And I remember going through my head, like we signed.

A seven or 10 year lease with the pyramids. And it was a $750,000 was the, what the like total value of the lease was. And I remember being like, I don't know for sure we're going to be in business that long. And my dad had to sign a personal guarantee on it. And so, which meant that whether I was in business or not, he was going to have to pay for it.

And I remember doing the math in my head of like what I would need to make. In the open market. If I, if element three went away, like what my salary would need to be to be able to make that payment to my dad, to pay for that, and also make up the difference between what my husband's income was able to cover with like our mortgage.

I remember doing that. Which that just gives you a read into like, is real. It's like, you know, don't worry about it. Just work hard. It's like, no, like actually their dollars and there's banks and there's people who are going to be real pissed off. If you can't deliver on this and they will actually take your collateral or they will like take your family's money, like whatever needed to happen.

And I think at the end of the day, I tell myself this, even today I am the company's best shot at success in on the day that I stopped believing that that means I have to be really clear and have the humility to say, well, then if I'm not, who is, and my job is identify that, find that person and put them in place so that we can do what we need to do, but I'm everybody's best shot.

So. Well, here we go in the nights were to be like time to go to work. I guess we'll do it. But there were times when I would lay in bed at night and understand the realness of what was happening,

Abby: I think that those are the moments where I'm like, am I allowed to allow myself to think about these things?

Like, am I allowed to think about it? The option of failure. And those are the moments where I have to like, allow myself to think it. But then to some extent, like draw a line and say, you can't go past that. Or because if you have to go pass there, someday you'll do it. But until that day you're not going to do it.

So there is like a line drawn sand, but at the same time, like there are moments where I'm like, yeah, like laying in bed at night, like, why would this even happen? Like what would happen? What are the domino effect of this app? For me,

Tiffany: if I thought through kind of what my plan was, or what's the worst possible thing, then I could be like, okay, I see it.

And I've named it and I I'll live through it. I sorta had to go through the thinking process. So I had the same thoughts with element three. I was like, there's a chance. I mean, for a long time, it's like in agency, world. In the early days you maybe have 30 days of revenue, maybe. I mean, it's like literally on the edge all the time.

It was not ever comfortable financially. And so I remember going through that thinking process of okay, if my 8, 10, 12, 22 employees, if I have to suddenly announce that we're out of revenue, what's that look like? And I was like, that would be a super sucky.

Tiffany: Not the only person on the plane at the tad to go through that. So my poor self up it would suck. The other is how long would it take me to call my network and help them land? The best job I possibly could. Okay. I could activate that way. I could be helpful. Would they be mad at me probably. But was I doing anything agregious to put us in a place of unnecessary risk or was I making the best decisions I knew to make.

And I was like, I'm making the best decisions. I know to me, they all know, whereas small company, they all know I'm an inexperienced leader. They all know, like I wasn't lying to them about any of that, all new. And so that was part of the excitement. It was part of the risk and it was part of the reality that I was going to have to deal with if we didn't get to where we needed to be.

And so. That's how I would be like, okay, could happen. Not where I'm going to put my energy, but I understand it. And I'm good now. And then I would like, sort of run on with my life for awhile. The other thing I have learned to love, actually, and this is hard at the beginning. Because there's so much, that's hard is in my experience in being around lots of businesses, not only as a business owner for 20 years, but we have lots of people who come in our walls as an agency that works with a bunch of companies.

I feel like my observation is that more people totally slam against the wall because they got comfortable and they stopped trying than it is that they were like, I'm paying a lot of attention to everything that's going on because I am Jim Collins talks about productive paranoia. I am productively paranoid.

I understand all this can go in an instant. This is super hard. And so I was like, if I'm paying a lot of attention, Willingness to be honest with myself about what's going on, I can solve through a lot of stuff. I'm pretty sure. And so that would start to dissipate the fear for a while. And then I have to go through that exercise again,

Abby: in many ways I was, as you were saying that, well, there's two things that you said that really stood out to me.

The first is being willing to look yourself in the mirror and say like, did I do anything agregious to like, make this fail? And if the answer is no, like I'm doing everything I can. You're right. Like, there's just like this ease that can come from that. But then the second piece that you're talking about is like this productive paranoia.

And like, I think you just said the phrase of, I feel confident, like I could solve through most of those problems. And it's made me think about this of like, okay, is the anecdote of fear confidence. And obviously this comes back to like your whole badass name. Is it fear that like erodes my confidence and convinces me.

I can't do the things that I cognitively believe. I am capable of I've done before, or I've taken on like similar challenges and succeeded to some extent, or like, do those things live together or like, how do I like allow those things to live together and like, have that productive paranoia, Alma. Without it turning into just paranoia and that taking away my decision, making ability, fear

Tiffany: tells us things that aren't true.

And that's what you have to have the like, awareness to interrogate. So when I was in the client work like crazy, I was selling, I was trying to lead the company and I was, you know, all the back office stuff and all that kind of stuff. I mean, it was like bananas in every Monday. Ah, hold my breath. If you will, can't see this.

But I would be like, the goal is to get to Friday and not screw something up, forget something major, or just blow it. And that was my energy. Like, and I would be like, I get to Friday and I'd be like, oh, my word, I'm alive. And I didn't miss anything huge. And I started to be like, I don't know. Let's say 20 weeks went by and I was able to be like, Hey, do I ever get to Friday?

And say I missed the biggest priorities. I screwed up the hardest projects and I was the wrong person in the room for the hard things. No, I never get to Friday and say that my mind has the ability to filter the most important priority for the day. I'm going to trust that. Cool. I'm going to go to work and it's, it's like the same thing happens.

In the day, but my mindset was totally different and now I'm like, I can just rest in it differently, even when it's super busy to be like, I know my mind, my brain is going to pick up the most important thing to do. It just is, And I'm just going to be present for that.

Instead of that, like gripping fear of like, what am I going to screw up? And so when you start to understand your fear, but like, but is it true? Is it true that I get to Friday and I've screwed a bunch of stuff up. Like that's not true. Fear is just trying to get me to believe there's too much. You're running too fast.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, there's not. Yes, there's a lot. But I have really big expectations of my life and my time, if it was easy, everybody would do it. Like, that's just the thing. It's super hard and you have to have the stamina for it. I want to go to the balance thing, frankly. I hate the conversation balance for me is other people's expectations of my time.

I live a completely unbalanced. As it relates to other people's definition of how much rest I should have, how many vacation days that we should have, how many hours I should hang out completely unbalanced. And it's totally my choice. I love it. I also want to do a lot of things with them. And to do that, I have embraced that requires an unbalanced effort by other people's definition to me.

Totally balanced. So I want to juxtapose that with saying like I totally respect and understand. Rest is important. I sleep a lot compared to what people think. I'm like a six to eight hours a night person. That to me is important to my body. And that is balanced, balanced to me is not, I have. Nothing on TV.

I know nothing about Netflix and Hulu and all that. I run in the morning to catch up with my friends, very efficient. Like this is how we connect. I need to work out and I love my friends. And so we're going to do those things together and it always happens between five 30 and six 20 in the morning.

But crack 30 nobody's around and nobody can be on the phone with me. And that's just what it requires. And I love it almost every day. I'm up by five 15. And so like, I think there is a. A healthy narrative around our understanding of anxiety and depression and like our like mental health. I think there's a really healthy discussion around that.

That is really important for us to normalize. And I think in places we are making a very unrealistic expectations of what it takes to have profound success. Because it's just hard and it just takes time. And so when we talk about just taking big pregnant breaks, do you, don't always get both again. I have chosen to have four kids.

I have chosen a two career home. I have chosen to want to lead the company. I have chosen to want to be on boards. I have chosen to want to be really involved in church. I have chosen those things and I am not a victim of. I choose those things. And that has expectations for my time. That looks unbalanced to most other people.

And that's okay. I had to go through the thinking cycle of this idea of like, but you know what? I work a lot. It's like, totally do choose it. Love

Abby: it. I appreciate you pressing it on us because in many ways, It's not that I need, like everyone's permission to do different things, but like, to some extent, I realize I've I have fallen into that.

Right? Like I have to your point, like I've allowed other people's expectation of what balance looks like to infiltrate my own life and then change my beliefs of like what I believe, frankly, what balance is even like feasible right now. And to feel as though just like add that to the list of things I'm failing, I'm failing at balance versus like taking that lens and like frankly taking ownership of my own balance and saying.

It's okay. That my balance looks different or that I'm unbalanced, frankly, or it's okay. That I chose to do this at the same time that I chose to start a marriage. And it's okay. That I, my time with my husband, like we do weekly coffee dates now because it's like, that's when we can get time together and it's not like, I don't have children yet.

Like, it's like, I have all these abundance of activities in the evening, but like, frankly in the evening, my brain is not able to like shut off from work yet. Like that's a morning thing only. So that time is not going to be preserved from you. My husband have super fruitful conversation because I'm probably still stressed from the day or still marinating on things from the day he was still like turning on things from the day.

And I appreciate you saying it because I do agree it's not to discount any answers. Like importance on mental health and everyone finding their own bounce of what that looks like. But I do feel like there's almost this, like, it's not shame put upon people who are unbalanced, but like this ounce of me allowing myself to believe like I'm doing it, it's yet another thing I'm doing wrong versus something I'm choosing to take on very intentionally in this season of life that I'm in right now, because I know that I can.

And because to your point, like I know that I. Something different. And this probably goes back to like where we first started of like me wanting something different inherently means that I will probably, for some moments of that, be more isolated or alone, then wanting something that's the same as everyone else.

And that, that choice just inherently like makes that reality. And that's not a bad thing. It's just, it's a choice. I need to own it. And I almost feel like I needed that like kind of kick. Well, if you want something different, you can't have the same balance as everyone else. Like you don't get to have, you can't have both worlds.

And I think that's a really helpful and frankly, healthy for me, reminding.

Tiffany: Uncommon outcomes require uncommon effort. I think some people can trick it. Like there are some people who are at the right time at the right place, the right investors, the right product idea. And they became, you know, they have hundreds of millions of dollars, but for most, that's not how it happens and it takes an uncommon effort.

And I think it really becomes socially taboo. Say that in our current environment of like, we do need to be careful, and that is not to discount the fact that we do need, I have had to learn how to rest and to learn how to be emotionally available. And I have my husband and I have been to counseling. I'm really public about that.

I, myself spent a couple of years seeing a therapist. It was super helpful in my growth and it doesn't change the fact that it is really hard and it takes time. And I didn't go through any of those experiences and say, I needed to spend fewer hours. It just takes time. And I think that acceptance of this is what I've chosen.

And there is a requirement that comes from wanting to do those things, like you say, at the same time. And there's been so many times I've. If only from 20 to 40, I could build my business from 40 to 60. I could have kids from 60 to 80. I could volunteer my time. And from 80 to a hundred, I could be an investor.

And then from a hundred to 120, I could like run a family foundation and then one 20 to one for like, I could be a tennis pro. That would be something I would love. Like, there's all these things I want to do. You don't get to do them in 20 year. Separately. It's not how life practically plays out. And so some people choose to put those dreams aside, totally their prerogative.

Perfect. Some of us choose to try to do all those dreams at the same time. Totally our prerogative. Perfect. It's okay. We all get to choose. That is what is so cool, but let's not place our own decisions on to other people's environments. I would rather be doing hard things than bored things. This is like my, I love it.

The fear keeps me alive. Helps me know I'm still growing. Uh, 41, I feel just as like invigorated as I did at 28 and I love it, but that's what I want to do so great.

Abby: Yeah. I almost feel like that statement. Like I'm 41. I've worked my butt off last 20 years and I'm grateful that I did it. It's like so rare to hear.

Usually it's like, I'm 41. I look back and I'm, you know, I, this morning, cause I missed out on X, Y, and Z, and I feel like. That's what I keep hearing. And I almost feel like I allow that to give me the excuse to say like, oh, you do need more balance savvy. Like you can't get to that. Or like, I allow it to be an excuse because I'm like, oh, well so-and-so is saying that they wish that they would've done this differently.

I'm like, well, I'm not so-and-so, that's not who I am. It's not where I'm destined to end up not different. Like I'm so special, but like, I just am a different human than other humans. And I feel like it is rare, especially for a female to say that like I'm 41. I'm proud of the decisions that I made to live in unbalanced.

Again, balance looks different to everyone. Like everyone has the same 24 hours in a day. And any hour you take up doing X means you're not doing YZ and every other letter of the alphabet, but like for you, it's finding that balance that works specifically for you in that time, in that season for your business, but also in that season for your family and as a human.

So, yeah, I just appreciate you saying it. Don't feel like those are the things I overwhelmingly here. And those are the things I frankly feel like in where I am right now. Like I need to hear to push me further and say like, you can go, you can go further, you can push yourself more. But also your actions are not who you are kind of to what you were speaking to earlier.

Like your accomplishments are not your value. So it's like, okay, let me just figure out how to lump all those in together and feel and believe all those things at the same time, which is challenging. But I think it's important.

Tiffany: I love Jr. I love him as a person, his character. He's funny. He's all these things and I love him.

And then there are things that he does that sort of add to that. So he unloads the dishwasher. Oh my word. Thank you so much. I love that you unloaded the dishwasher. That gives me so much life. Whether he unloads or doesn't unload this year, that's a task that brings joy to me. It doesn't change who he is.

Let's say he doesn't unload the dishwasher, pisses me off. I love the dishwasher, but it doesn't change who he is. And I still love him. I might be irritated by the action. Those of us who are performers, we change our self-acceptance and our self identity based on whether we did or didn't unload the dishwasher based on that example, versus being able to see, like, you know, I'm clear on who I am.

I'm clear in what I value. I'm clear on the fact that I will honesty overall. I'm proud of the fact that I, the way I lead, I'm proud of the way. Like those are things that. Are inside of me. And then I may or may not make element through successful, but even if I make it unsuccessful, that doesn't change who I am from a values

Abby: perspective.

That example is helpful because it's very easy to see with someone else. And I can cognitively believe that about myself, but I still find it very hard practice.

Tiffany: It takes so much mental practice of, I am allowing my performance to dictate my own self-acceptance. And as you lead, and as you get more impact and influence your own, self-acceptance becomes so important because otherwise you start to lead for other people's acceptance and that can lead you down weird places, which is probably a different connotation.

Abby: Thank you. You were speaking as fear and like speaking a truth, which was like, I can be extraordinary and have blemishes. I can be extraordinary and have blemishes. And there's something like super profound about that, of who I am is extraordinary. But what I do may have flaws and even who I am may have flaws, but to the extent of the choices I make, not, not who God made me to be or who I am meant to be.

And. Who I choose to be, but there was something of that that just like really struck me of like the simplicity, but the profoundness of believing in allowing myself to believe that I can be extraordinary and I am extraordinary. And yet I know every blemish that I have, and I can point that out very clearly, but like that doesn't change the extraordinary aspect of it

Tiffany: as well.

Owning your gifts and understanding that those get delivered in imperfect ways does not change that that is still a core of your gift and who you are. And I think that's such a big part of the head game of being an early stage entrepreneur of like, if you don't believe nobody is going to

what I hope you take from our conversation today. The first thing is if you want an uncommon outcome, it's going to require an uncommon effort. And the second is, if you find yourself repeatedly asking is my path normal. I'd say who cares? The most important thing is that you have peace about that half that you're choosing.

So what else is on your mind? Text me 3, 1 7. 3 5 0 8 9 2 1 3 1 7 3 5 0 8 9 2 1. And be sure to follow along on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening today.

‍