The myth of control with Amy Brown

Tiffany Sauder: Hey, it's Tiffany. If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know I'm feeling this pull away from social media and towards real connection, and that's exactly why I started my newsletter. It's a place for us to connect authentically without having to jump through algorithms. I usually share a little bit about what's going on in my life.

My family practical tips for two career homes and just generally things that are inspiring me. I'd love for you to join me so we can create this little online space and we can lean into all of the ands in our lives together. You could sign up at the link in our show notes. Enjoy this episode.

I am a small town kid, born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, ceo, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago I founded a marketing consultancy, and ever since my husband, JR and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline.

Yep. That means four kids, three businesses, two career. All building towards one life We love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these, and in my life, it unlocked my world, and I want that for you too. I'm Tiffany Souder and this is Scared, confident.

Oh, Amy Brown, where do I start? She's one of those people that I actually don't know that well, but I feel like I do because. Some mutual close relationships, and I've been watching her from afar grow this incredible business. I really wanted to talk to Amy because, so you know, I talk about how I grew my company and my family on the same timeline.

I mean, it was the same decade that I was having babies as it was the first 10 years of Element three, and her story's different. She also has four kids, and she's always been a career professional mom, professional. But her entrepreneurial journey didn't start until her kids were in middle school and they were like grown.

You know, like they were super busy and in activities and all the things at common. She has a really special story that was really touching to me about how this decision to start this business wasn't just about her. It wasn't just about her sacrifice, but she needed her family to support her and man. I was really touched by this conversation.

I was touched by the strength of this incredible woman, and I know that you're gonna take a lot away from it too. I have so much respect for. . What, what? How many years ago was it? Maybe four year, four

Amy Brown: or five years ago. I started the, I left my job in late 2018, and I'm pretty sure I saw you in the late fall of 2018.

Yeah, it was like right

Tiffany Sauder: on the, like you'd made the decision.

Amy Brown: Yeah. I was falling from my, you know, I had jumped up a cliff. Mm-hmm. , and I was in just total free fall. Yeah. What, do you remember

Tiffany Sauder: what you were feeling in that

Amy Brown: season? Oh, yeah. I mean, total like fear, I mean, just. , like I had taken the leap, but I was still in free fall mode.

Like my wings had not started carrying me yet. Um, and I was in a mode of just trying to get one client. That's like my only goal at that point in time. And so you, I came to see you out of Brian's recommendation just to like, start to begin to even think about how to effectively communicate. Mm-hmm. , what the idea was that I was trying to build, you know?

Tiffany Sauder: How far away is the product today from what you started with

Amy Brown: five years ago? Yeah, I mean, and nothing could have prepared me then for where we're at today in terms of our product and how much we've grown and who our clients are. Like, I wouldn't have believed anybody if they told me that. Mm-hmm. I just.

Yeah. It's been an incredible journey and I love the name of your podcast. I mean, there is something so, so right about my, at least from my experience of like when you are just in ultimate vulnerability mode. Mm-hmm. , and you are like terrified, you really like that is where you have the best chance to be transformed and it's just so interesting how the juxtaposition.

fear and weakness with like, that's where you gain your, your power and your beauty and all of that. I mean, that has been my journey of starting a

Tiffany Sauder: business. Has this been a far more profound personal journey than you expected? Like I, I knew I was starting a business and we had plans and all the things, but the personal transformation seems to have been a really loud

Amy Brown: track for you.

Very loud. In fact, like the only thing that tops on paper, like the business. Is the, the, the personal, the spiritual journey that, I mean, when you get just rock to your core, like you can't help but be transformed from it. So

Tiffany Sauder: what do you remember the moment when you realized I've not yet become the person that this business is gonna require me to be?

Amy Brown: I think with every step in the process, it's been like, all right, you're gonna have to evolve what this business has needed from you to this. is, is not gonna be the same going forward. You've gotta keep changing. That's like every few months I feel like this business needs from me something completely different.

I do think that motherhood has helped me at least like conceptually understand that because you can't mother or parent in the same way for every, every child that's been put in your care. And so like that idea of just constantly evolving how. Nurture your business, your children. It just constantly is evolving.

Tiffany Sauder: So specifically you, you said like the business needs different things for me. Can you share specific examples of like, here were some things I had to let go of. This was a way I was like, I was creating a ceiling for the company there. Things that come to mind in that journey

Amy Brown: specifically? Yeah. I mean, in the early days, like my mindset was scrap.

Uh, you know, you say yes to anything and everything that is an opportunity. Um, and it's all about just getting opportunities in the door so you can start to prove some things out. Once your business grows a bit and you have people with you, um, saying yes to any opportunity is no longer healthy for your business.

Your culture and the people around you. And so it was hard for me to let go of the mindset of like scrappiness at all costs. Like in order to survive psychologically the pressure of like sink or swim, you kind of have to go into survival mode. Mm-hmm. and that survival mode mindset. Like outlasted when my business really needed me to stay, you know, my business had grown enough that , we were gonna be okay for a bit, and yet my mindset hadn't shifted and I really needed it to, my whole company needed me to.

Tiffany Sauder: Who came to the realization? Did your team tell you? Did you notice it? Like, how did you get there? Because I think that to me, as a young entrepreneur, whether you're young, like actually in age or young in the journey, the thing that kills me is the thing I can't see. Mm. , you know? Yeah. It's like I'm fine with hard things, I'm fine with failure, I'm fine with like apologizing for a decision.

I got really wrong. All those things I can see. Mm-hmm. , but like getting creamed by something you can't see. Mm-hmm. , it's like, for me, it's still like a ultimate

Amy Brown: fear, I think. , some of it was feedback, maybe not explicitly delivered to me. Mm-hmm. , but feedback from my team, seeing the stress that it was causing and me saying, Hmm, you know, what's causing this stress?

So that, a combination of that. Plus, I mean, thank God I've been surrounded by advisors, people who can see things that I can't and who. Can lovingly, but very directly tell me what I need to hear and see. And so I think it was a combination of some really wise advisors pointing some things out to me and me just trying to really sort through interpreting the stress and what was causing it of my people.

Tiffany Sauder: This is a little bit adjacent, but we talked before here, you have four kids? Mm-hmm. right now, they're 15 to eight mm. . So take five years off. When you started, they were from 10 to three? Yes. Um, which is a prime mom time . Mm-hmm. , you know, like there's the whole, like, I was growing my business when I was having babies, but that's different.

They can kind of park them at home. Mm-hmm. . So how did, how did you guys talk about that decision as a family? Or are you and your husband?

Amy Brown: So in 2018, I was 42 and. My youngest was three and my husband was a stay-at-home dad. Hmm. No other income, no other insurance. It was all on my corporate salary and employment, and so when I, January of 2018 said to my husband, you know, I just don't think I can die happy if I don't go start this business.

It really truly became. decision to change our lifestyle. Wow. And so we started socking money away, um, and, you know, bonuses and rearranging some of our financial picture. And we started having conversations with the kids at the dinner table about how mom was gonna go live out her dream. And that I was asking everybody support to doing that.

Mm-hmm. . And that would require us. to make some sacrifices, and for them it looked like, Hey, we're not gonna mm-hmm. , we're not gonna be just pulling off things off the shelf at Target anymore when we are shopping and we're gonna not be eating out anymore. We're not gonna take a ski trip this year. Mm-hmm.

And I mean, at the time I remember feeling in some ways, like I was letting my kids down because. . I don't know about you, but I feel like I got a lot of messages as a young mom that my job as a mom was to keep my kids' lives comfortable. Mm-hmm. . But I kind of hit a realization in this phase of my life where I realized, well, is that really true or is it really.

My job is to show them what it takes to really live. Mm-hmm. . And if I'm going at home and I'm telling my kids that they can be anything they wanna be, and yet I'm not living that same example, like who am I to tell them they can live with their dreams and then not show them what that takes. And so maybe my job is to show them what sacrifice and hard work looks like.

So that's kind of the mindset I went in and I will tell. , we went through obviously a phase of months where we'd be walking through the mall or we'd be not going out to our usual spot for dinner. And you at first, like I could sense their disappointment or their feeling of scarcity, but after a few months, like I started to realize, wow, we're like, we have figured out a way to not depend on some of these things and still.

A really healthy, loving life. And now today, we just opened our real office, our first real post covid post series, A office in June, and my children came to that. Mm-hmm. And it was the first real tangible thing they could see. and they felt like they helped make it happen and they did. Mm-hmm. , you know, because of their sacrifice.

Totally.

Tiffany Sauder: Oh my word. It's making me so emotional hearing this for some reason, I think there's this pressure to hide the profound sacrifice Mm. That it takes to build something. Hmm. Um, and even now I see to my kids there is a sacrifice our family has to make. There's a cost to my pursuit of dreams. for my husband, for our kids.

There absolutely is. It's not a priceless, or it's not a, it is not a costless decision. And I think that we wrongly hide that. Hmm. Part of the equation. Mm-hmm. . Um, and it so quickly gets masked with the things you can't afford if you hit, you know what I mean? Like, if it works, then it's really easy I think to.

speed over that and even like traveling or my husband and I were just away and I told the girls, this is a cost that you guys have to pay for your dad and I to have a healthy marriage. Mm-hmm. , it's just how it goes. It is not a decision that has no expense to it and mm-hmm. , um, I love that you talk to your kids that way and that they can see that in the sense of like, pride that they feel that they were part of that journey for

Amy Brown: you guys.

Thanks for saying that and sharing that. And I, I think you are right, like. , we wrongly hide it. And maybe it's because we're told like we should make our kids' lives pain free. Mm-hmm. . But the reality is pain is a part of life. You know, sacrifice, suffering, all of that is a part of life. Not only is it a part of life like.

It's extremely formative. It makes us who we are.

Tiffany Sauder: So what was your childhood like? Did you grow up around entrepreneurship and stuff? Is this a thing you've seen?

Amy Brown: I grew up around really hardworking parents. My, uh, my dad was, and still is a cardiothoracic surgeon, uh, has worked at Riley for 45 years. He grew up a farm kid and was told like, you'll never be a doctor

He proved everybody wrong with that. And the way my dad has influenced me is we all paid a sacrifice for his work. He worked 15, 18 hour days my whole childhood, and my mom, you know, she had to pay a price because of that as well, but I saw that he loved, loved his work and. That said a lot to me about finding the thing that you're passionate about.

And my mom not only, you know, supported him and all of us by doing the primary caretaking, um, but she is a special ed teacher at my high school and I just came to really appreciate hard work service doing something that's bigger than just for yourself. And that's what my parents. , I would

Tiffany Sauder: love to hear, and I'd love to have in the podcast in your words, what authentics

Amy Brown: does.

Okay, so my dad, you know, a specialist, uh, obviously worked with technology his whole career, but he always, I remember from the youngest age, he always told me, Amy, if you ever wanna diagnose a patient, what you really need to do more than anything is just ask them to tell you their story and they will lead you to the proper diagnosis.

And so he taught up me a lot about listening. . And so that helped create a foundation from which my education and my career was formed, and that's what all led to Authentics and Authentics. What we do is we help healthcare organizations listen to the everyday voices that flow into their organization, through their call center, through their chat lines.

And these organizations, they interact with millions of customers a year, and that's a lot of data. These conversations are stored as data and they're clearly nothing happens to them other than the being stored. What Authentics does is we take those conversational files into our platform and we listen at scale, and we feed back to the healthcare organiz.

what they need to hear, and our clients use those insights to hopefully transform the way they deliver care.

Tiffany Sauder: How did your organization navigate Covid? I don't mean like X and y, I mean like culturally, like what, what did you learn about yourself as a leader in your company in that

Amy Brown: season? I am embarrassed to say this, but there is a part of me that like grieved during that whole thing.

Covid started right when I was about ready to close my very first round of venture capital funding, and I finally had a little bit of money to hire, uh, a few more people. And it took me a long time to be able to articulate this to myself and become self-aware, but I had imagined. People around me and it's like, it's like roll up your sleeves.

You know, we're all in a war room together across a whiteboard trying to figure things out. And we didn't have that, right. None of us did. And we all went home and tried to figure out how to triple the size of our business without any tangible hands-on experience with people across the table. And I just kind of felt like, man, I'm missing out on like some of that fun.

Hey, let's order a pizza and figure this out over the next three hours. Yeah. Of thing . Totally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it, it became clear that building culture, like the need to build culture doesn't go away. In fact, it's even more important. And so I thought a lot about that through those years of how do I keep that sense of higher purpose and connection going even virtually.

What

Tiffany Sauder: is the purpose of authentics? Like, do you have it written down?

Amy Brown: Yeah. In fact, when you walk in. doors, it hits you right in the face. It's, we're on a mission to help humans understand humans. A lot of conversational intelligence companies mm-hmm. are formed to create chatbots. Mm-hmm. and replace human-driven conversation with, with machines, which is define purpose.

But what we're really trying to do is to help people who are empowered with big decisions. Understand the impact of those decisions by listening to the human beings they serve. And so that's why our mission is to help humans understand humans, which is infinitely harder than to help a chatbot understand humans

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, totally. So how does that connect to you as a person? It's my like observation and belief in being in like marketing and brand strategy for almost 20 years of my career is the most authentic. are birthed as an extension of like the soul. Mm. Of the leader. Yeah. Um, and you have a very authentic culture, so it has to be connected to you as a person.

Um, so how do those words, that mission, how do you find yourself when you talked to your kids, you know, five years ago and said, I have to go on this experience of birthing this thing that's in my mind, in my heart, in my soul, how does it connect to you as a

Amy Brown: person? So my education was actually in social work and you know, between my upbringing as a child and watching direct care service be performed by both my parents and then, and then going through social work school and then applying that first and foremost in state government.

Working with child welfare was the early part of my career, and there was something about. humanity and this passion of when we can have empathy for someone else. And when leaders can have empathy for the people for whom they're leading or serving, that gives us our best opportunity to evolve our society forward.

And in the core of my career, I spent it in corporate. and one of the things that became really clear to me is that everybody starts their job like wanting to make a difference. They go into a career wanting to make a difference, wanting to help other people. But something happens to us along the way where, um, you know, whether it's the corporate track we're on, the promotion track, family planning, all of those things where we may lose touch with that original.

and I saw like this work authentics as an opportunity to reignite for people the humanity within themselves by connecting with the humanity and other people. Mm-hmm. and when that happens on a frequent basis and when that happens as a normal course of doing business. . It allows everyone to make decisions and live their life connected to a purpose, and you just have better business because of that.

I also see

Tiffany Sauder: a connection back to your dad when, and he said like the powers and the listening. Hmm. Like that's what you're doing is listening. It is. It's like you're building a giant ear . Mm-hmm. . and listening. And I think stereotypically, even some doctors, it's like their power is sometimes found in the talking, you know, and like the power in the room versus the listening.

And there's a real gentleness to that that I think is, I don't know. I, I feel like I experience that in you a little bit too. So it's cool. Um, so you have your new office space now. I'd love for you to kinda walk me through how you hope you see the culture continue to come together and form now that you do have the advantage.

space and people being together maybe a little bit more intentionally. I think CEOs are the architects of culture. Mm-hmm. . And so what are the big broad brushstrokes that you're like wanting to be real intentional about, that you hope you're creating form for the people to fit in

Amy Brown: color in? Yeah, I, I mean, our number one value and our core value is authenticity.

And the reason why that's so important in my view, When we are out allowed to explore who we are as unencumbered people, when we can start to take the baggage that we've acquired over our years off, we're able to lock into our superpowers. And when we have people who are dialed into their superpowers, they're not only happy, but you're gonna have better business outcomes because of it.

What I underestimated. So that value has been the value since we started. Um, and I've been very passionate about it. What I have grossly underestimated is how hard it is for people to even identify what parts of themselves are authentic and what parts aren't. Mm-hmm. . And to release those parts that are not.

I've also under-recognized. how depending on your race, your gender, your cultural background, whatever, everybody's journey to authenticity looks very different. And it might be safer for someone like me to become their authentic self than it would be for another person. That other person didn't conform to mainstream.

Right. And so I've learned a lot from my own people. Mm-hmm. about. what it really takes to live your most authentic self. And it is scary and it is hard, and it takes a lot of hard work. Mm-hmm. . And so I've just become humbled when I ask for authenticity from my team. It's a lot harder than I could ever appreciate.

And so we very intentionally work on that. Authentic. Sometimes that looks like roles that people start with change because. Hey, we're learning that a role's not really dialed into who you really are. Mm-hmm. , um, it might mean admitting your own weaknesses. Mm-hmm. and, and letting some things go. It might mean that you have to like, drop some of your biases on some things and become aware of those biases.

It's hard work. Mm-hmm. ,

Tiffany Sauder: do you think that's been a natural part of who you are to live authentically, or is it in the foreground because you've had to work really hard? .

Amy Brown: I think there's a lot in me that's hardwired that way. Mm-hmm. and my family would tell you authentically. Yeah. Yes. To be authentic. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess I, I have lived enough life where it's kind of this, in my mind, this mentality of life's too short to live any other way. Mm-hmm. . But I also recognize not more than ever that I had the privilege of choosing that more than I think some other people may have.

Tiffany Sauder: How would you describe what your own superpower?

Amy Brown: I think one of my superpowers is really being able to reflect to people the light and the beauty that I see in them. I think so often the mirrors we look to are false or they're defined by forces that aren't pure or for our own good. And I really over time have learned to think less. , what difference am I personally making in the world?

And more about how do I help others see themselves as these beautiful creatures and, and the ripple effect of doing that. Mm-hmm. is much greater than any one thing that I can do. Mm-hmm. with my own hands or mm-hmm. voice.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. , do you practice saying to people, this is my superpower?

Amy Brown: That's a good question, Tiffany.

I don't think I've ever said that out. .

Tiffany Sauder: The reason I ask is because in my own journey of chasing down fear and owning who I believe like uniquely God has made me to be, is I think there's a lot of power in saying, I actually own that this talent is in me. Mm-hmm. , and I would be happy to use it in your situation right now if that would be helpful.

You know what I mean? Like actually saying it and like in the same way that. talk about personality traits. Mm-hmm. like, you know, I'm a high D, I'm a high, I, it's like there's all these things that's like helpful about that kind of a person. Mm-hmm. , I know like I'm a really good synthesizer. It's like I'm really good at that.

I'm a really good communicator. If you need something, like put me in coach kind of thing. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And I think there's a real, almost like bashfulness that's kind of odd. Mm-hmm. that we cre that we get as a adult that. . Not that I can't say I'm good at things, but it's like, no, actually, like we are all good at some things.

Mm-hmm. , you know what I mean? And it's helpful if you know it. And that's something that I do. And I encourage my team to be like, no, just say you're good at that. Mm-hmm. , you are good at that and it's helpful and you should tell people you're good at that so that we know how and when to use you. And I think knowing those superpowers and the sooner we can claim them, the more effective we can.

and just the accelerant that we can be in the places that our time is going and the teams were on and that kind of thing. I

Amy Brown: love that. And I think when you claim your own superpowers, it allows others people to claim their own. Yeah. And it gives them permissions. That's a really good

Tiffany Sauder: point. Yeah. I just like, I'm like, this is, why are we acting weird about it?

Like you're actually, we're all really good at something. And the sooner you can get articulate in that to yourself, to me, it becomes a. Even like what boards I'm on, like where are you at in your cycle? Do you need a thing that does what I know how to do? If not find somebody else? Like, yeah. It's just, it's been a real helpful filter for me.

Love that. One of the questions I wanted to ask you is when did you know you were a

Amy Brown: leader? I think I started recognizing that I was a leader when I felt like I was willing to say things that felt like it took courage. when I was willing to disagree with a colleague or a boss or speak up in a room when there were a lot of people around the table and I noticed that people were listening and that I was, um, both feeling credible and speaking, but also that I was being taken seriously and I knew then.

Okay. I've somehow locked into something that's a strength of mine. Mm-hmm. ,

Tiffany Sauder: do you remember anything as a kid, like where you were because you're a middle child? I'm the oldest. We were talking about this beforehand, so I feel like there's a social hierarchy that exists for me to be a leader as an oldest child.

You know what I mean? But it's different than the middle

Amy Brown: child. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, my mom will would tell you that she knew that I was gonna be a leader and be okay when. We were on a family vacation in Florida and it was some evening, and I, at the age of five, decided to color several pictures in my coloring book and then go out on the beach and sell them.

Oh my word. And she said she watched me from the condo. She was watching me out on the beach and I was going up to strangers showing them my pictures and offering. To sell them for, I don't know, a nickel or something like that. And my mom will say, I knew then that you were, you'd run your own company someday.

So ,

Tiffany Sauder: that's incredible. I think it's so cool to hear those things worth. It's just innate. Some of it's innate a lot. Yeah. We, we learn a lot of things as we grow, but some of it's innate. That's really

Amy Brown: cool. Yeah. I don't remember much about that story, but I can see like, it takes some courage, right? To, to just go do that, that stuff as kids.

So that's a

Tiffany Sauder: standout. I my oldest. is such an achiever and she's so talented in so many ways, but being seen standing out is very uncomfortable to her. Mm-hmm. . And so even as a little kid going out on a beach all by yourself, like I look at things like that. I'm more socially fearless, let's say. Mm-hmm.

that way, and I, I look at them like there's times where she just walking out on the beach all by herself would be like, I'm being seen. I more want to blend in and fit in, and that kind of thing. So Great. That makes. , what are you being intentional about right now with your family, with your business, with your

Amy Brown: marriage?

Hmm. Well, I'm spending a lot of time as my kids are, you know, growing. I'm spending a lot of time being super intentional about. , why and about being intentional. So I drive my two youngest to school every day. And that car time is precious, isn't it? Mm-hmm. car time I think is so precious, and I think we oftentimes, as as parents, , like, wish away that car time.

Mm-hmm. , but then I'm guilty of that. A little bit . Oh, me too. Uh, but then I know once they start driving, I'll wish it back. So anyway, I'm spending a lot of time in the car talking about having an intention for the day. Uh, you know, how are you gonna slay the day today, guys? How are you going to be of service to someone else today?

So just being intentional. Purpose and, and even setting intention is something that I'm spending a lot of time talking with my kids about, even around the holidays. Like, why do we do the things we do and how do we think beyond ourselves and our own wants and needs? Mm-hmm. , to be really honest, vulnerable in this moment, I need to be more intentional about my marriage.

I think as I have an incredible partner in Kevin, but man, these years are so busy. They're so busy running your business. raising four kids and they're so consumed with activities and sometimes it just feels like all we are are logistics. That's all we are. Um, and I saw your post the other day about taking time with your spouse.

I mean, gosh, we haven't done enough of that. And I think that goes back to what I was saying earlier. You have this like survival mindset, even be, at least I do, beyond the point which I really need to keep that survival mindset. Mm-hmm. , now we have time and space. create time and space again. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.

So going into the new year, I think that needs to be an intention of mine is to really give our marriage a chance to breathe and rediscover.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. And like putting creative energy into, I mean, the reason it's so in the foreground for me and my husband and I, is that we pushed our marriage. a place where it was either we were gonna rebuild it or it was over.

Mm-hmm. , like it was, the rubber band had broke. Mm-hmm. . And, and so in so many ways, I'm so grateful for the clarity of how bad it got. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. , like, there's such a gift in being like, no, it's actually super broken. It's not just rusty. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so it forced a rebuilding for us. It was.

we just have some choices to make. Mm-hmm. . And we've gotta figure out if the we that we are today is a thing that's compatible and if we're gonna invest differently and use time differently and use financial resources differently and like actually choose that an amazing marriage is an imperative outcome in my life.

Mm-hmm. . And if I was honest, I had absolutely chosen element three success as an imperative in my life. I had absolutely chosen. The kids were gonna be an imperative of my life. I had absolutely chosen those things that were getting my energy. Um, and I just believed he would always be there. Mm-hmm. And when you are faced with the reality that that might not be the case.

Mm-hmm. And, you know, we, no story. It was like we were both complicit in where we became, but it was, it was like this is a dead on arrival situation. So, and I have learned what he needs from me. I mean, we, we have to go away. to be together. Mm-hmm. , we can hang out, we can like put the kids to bed and order late night sushi and it's fun.

But to really be together and it can just be two nights. Like it doesn't have to be, but we've gotta get away from our environment. All of the tasks, all of the roles we play to just be. . Um, and it's always inconvenient. Mm-hmm. , and I've decided it also is very inconvenient to get divorced. Like it's very inconvenient.

I don't mean that in a way that's light, but I'm just saying there's a lot of other things that are really inconvenient. Yes. Yeah. This is the inconvenience that I'm gonna choose. And I don't mean that he is an inconvenience, but it's just hard to get away when life is busy and kids are full. . You know, they don't like it when I'm gone.

Like that's where I was like, this is a price you guys have to pay for dad and I to have a relationship that we're really excited about. Otherwise the cost in our family was he and i's relationship. Does that make sense?

Amy Brown: Totally. And I am so impressed that you're willing to talk about that. I think it's probably so common.

Mm-hmm. . And yet it's scary to talk about that stuff out loud, but it's, I mean, you just sharing that with me gives me such a gift. It's such a good reminder of why investing in the relationship is it's imperative, it's a requirement, and yet it's so easy when you're running a business totally. When you're at, you know, in the active days of parenting.

You know, it's a, a nonstop thing to just. to take it for granted. Mm-hmm. and to always put it last. Always put it last.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. . And we got to the, we had to get to the place where we could communicate very clearly what we each needed and mm-hmm. , his ideal world is that we get away probably almost quarterly, which again, it can be a long weekend.

We probably do it for sure twice a year. Sometimes we get to three. Um, but it doesn't have to be fancy, but for us it has to be a way. Yeah. It's not the

Amy Brown: same for, I can relate, relate. I can relate to that. Like just mentally for me, I cannot. Detached unless I have removed myself from the The environment

The environment .

Tiffany Sauder: I know. I'm like, yeah, there's too many things to do here. I see tasks

Amy Brown: everywhere. . Yes, I see laundry and I see my

Tiffany Sauder: office. Yeah. Yes. The last question I'll ask is just like, what encouragement do you have for young couples, young women that are starting? They have, in some ways, it's such an amazing thing.

I think born with this idea that you believe you can really make an impact on the world. Hmm. And then there's like the clumsy part of birthing it. Mm-hmm. that comes with a lot of the expenses that we've talked about. And again, they're prices you willingly pay. But what encouragement or Hmm, advice would you have?

Amy Brown: So many things that I wish I would've done or known in my twenties and. . Uh, and maybe, maybe it's only possible to know it through experience, but I would just say first really focus on what are you telling yourself every day We've have a practice at work where we're intentionally identifying our internal talk tracks.

And through this practice, many people have been shocked at what they're telling themselves that they were unaware because it's so habitual and it's so much a part of. internal vernacular that we don't even know it exists. So I would say to to young professionals, women, take some time to examine what you tell yourself every day.

What are the mantras? What are the voices that are talking to you? Take them out. Look at them and ask yourself how are they serving you? And if they're not, eliminate them. I was so mean to myself. I was so mean to myself. . I would secondly say when we're driven, when we have a plan and a goal and a vision, it's so easy to wanna get there on day one.

Mm-hmm. and to get disappointed, to feel frustrated and so much, I think we spend time frustrated with what. . I can't figure out how to control. I'm just learning more and more. The older I get that the power comes in, identifying the myth of control. The sooner we can get comfortable with actually not being in control, cuz we really aren't in control of much.

The happier we will be and the more free will we will be to just live in the present and the moment. And there's just such a gift in doing. , I always wanted to get to the next thing. You know, I always wanted to achieve the next goal, and it wasn't until I had hit 40 that I got to this like milestone in my career and my life and was like, huh, well, mm-hmm.

I'm here and. . This by itself doesn't bring happiness, you know? Mm-hmm. , it's gotta be something internal. One of the

Tiffany Sauder: things that I say is my, I have a heart of wanting to passionately pursue a life of, and Hmm. And, and fear can say life is about ours. Mm-hmm. . And I just feel like you're such a beautiful example of intentional ands in your life.

Mm-hmm. , and you've had these moments where you had real big decisions that had to be made. I just wanna thank you for coming on and sharing your buffet of Anne's and mm-hmm. really vulnerably, authentically stepping into that. Thanks for sharing your story, Amy. Thanks,

Amy Brown: Tiffany. Awesome. It's been amazing.

Appreciate you.

Tiffany Sauder: Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling fear you will not decide what happens in my life. I will. If you wanna get the inside scoop, sign up for my newsletter. We decided to make content for you instead of social media algorithms. The link is waiting for you in show notes or you can head over to tiffany souder.com.

Thanks for listening.

‍