Creative solutions in seasons of change

Tiffany Sauder: I just got done interviewing Stephanie and her story and where her family's at right now. It's such a great reminder that. When things change, it requires a different look at the capacity that it takes to do and manage all of the things that you have in front of you. And they have been in a season of lots and lots of change that Hasn't stopped for several years for them, and most of it is good things on the surface. Most of it is as a result of being successful and kids growing and being more involved. But even in the midst of more because of good, life can accidentally get Harder than you intended it to so listen in a Stephanie, and I talk a little bit more about their specific to career home And some of the specifics of what they're navigating and she shared just some really Incredible advice for I know a new perspective of how to think about the things in front of you listen in but we'll see how it goes. Okay. Let's start with the stages of your kids. How many kids and what are the stages?

Stephanie: I have two kids, both girls. One's a first grader and one's a preschooler. We are just starting to get into the sports and friends and them actually having real Independent lives other than just sitting at our house all the time.

Tiffany Sauder: And, first grader clearly goes to school, gets on the bus. Do you guys take her to school? What's that look

Stephanie: We take her to school. They both go to the same school together. so we drop off our nanny. And one of the reasons we just moved was so we could get a little bit closer to school because we were driving 25 minutes both in the morning and then someone was doing it in the afternoon.

Tiffany Sauder: Okay. We'll talk about the move here in a minute. So you got first grade in a preschool or both girls, and then let's talk about you and your husband's. Like work schedules, like what's normal look like? Is there travel? Are you working from home? Both you going to the office just kind of set the stage

Stephanie: So my husband and I own the business that he runs. I would say I travel sometimes, but not frequently. but he does not necessarily go into the office all the time, but, you know, because he is the owner, CEO, and president that sometimes there's things that happen nights, weekends,

In my, like, recent job as of two months ago, I've been traveling a little bit, not a ton, but, kind of occasionally around the state and the Midwest.and then I go into the office almost full time.

Tiffany Sauder: Okay, and what's like in a normal week for you and your husband? Is it like we were out the door by 7 30 taking the girls and we're back in by 4 30 6 30

Stephanie: So usually like, I will take the girls to school most mornings, and we are out the door by 7: 30 and then my office is almost an hour away. And so I have a decent drive in the morning and then I'm there until about five or so and then it's an hour back.

Tiffany Sauder: And then how did you grow up? Did your mom work?

Stephanie: So, my dad has worked at the same company for 50 years and. My mom worked until my younger brother was born. He's a little more than five years younger than I am. And so like, I vaguely recall having babysitters and, and, you know, kind of like a primary nanny around, but once my brother was born, she decided to stay home and, you know, so she was kind of there whenever we needed her and she was like an amazing volunteer with our schools and kind of whatever we were interested in, like, she was always the.Team mom and class parent so I, I knew that she had so many different, skills that she couldn't always use in, in managing the household, but still she, she translated those like really well. I would say I always wanted to be really independent. And so that was kind of my. Primary reason, I guess, for wanting to do all of the things, I just never wanted it to be like, okay, well, here are your, your two choices. And it's like, no, I want all the choices.  So. Um, I would say that was kind of my motivator for keeping things

Tiffany Sauder: Did you picture when you were, like your 16 year old self? Did you picture yourself working  Stephanie and having this big corporate job like you have now?

Tiffany Sauder: What did you picture?

Stephanie: I don't know that I like some vision. I remember when I was a kid, I went to take your daughter to work with my dad. And he had this big table in his office and the story goes. I sat at the head of the table and I liked had these imaginary workers and I just fired people all day. And so my dad was like, well, I, I, I knew you were gonna be in charge whether you knew that or not.

And, um, you know, I, I did kind of gravitate towards like, management type things. And, you know, one thing led to another and it's like, oh. Okay. This does kind of fit,

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, you have very much a presence about you for sure. I can imagine as a little girl that was the same. That's hilarious. So you guys have been in a ton of change over the last several months. So again, let's kind of give an overview of that because from an outside looking in, I think that's part of where like systems that were maybe working before everything's broken now. And so because there's been some pressure that you've put on it, some amazing things and opportunities that have happened for your family, but there's a reality and are like a reaction. That takes some intention that can be hard to find in the craziness of all the demands of the change. So let's kind of, I guess, in the last piece of framing, go through what some of those changes have been. And then we can kind of walk into some of the conversation.

Stephanie: So I would say starting in like 2020 when we had a brand new baby, the pandemic happened. My husband found this business that he wanted. by and, and run. And so we were like, you know what, for this season of life, like, yes, we have a new baby. Yes, there's a global pandemic, but like, it's fine. worked itself out for a little bit. And then somehow we've been thrown back into a handful of other seasons. So I was thinking this morning on my way to work that I've had four new jobs in the last three years. like I've only moved companies once, but like the positions changed semi dramatically and, you know, so that's been one, Chris has done a handful of acquisitions with his business that he's been fortunate to be able to do the kids getting a little bit older and into, you know, extracurriculars. And then the big one is. We decided we needed more on our plates and, we bought a house earlier this spring. and have been remodeling it since. and so I was thinking like, you know, usually when things happen, it's like, okay, this is a season, the next season, there is a definitive change like, fall turns to winter, there's a change, things will get back to this level of normal. We haven't found that normal again. And so, we've been in like, two or three back-to-back seasons of chaos. And somehow we have to find that normal again.

Tiffany Sauder: What most, a definition of normal for you? Like when you feel like, okay, this is sustainable, what gets done?

Stephanie: I would say that the to-do list is like a reasonable amount. So instead of being 30 things, it's like five to 10 and then there's, there's five to delegate and five to do myself and. You know, I think in the current Susan, there's 25 or 30, but I still only have the capacity for five. And so then it's like, okay, well, can I find someone else to delegate like these other 20 things to that knows me, knows my family, knows our goals, what we're trying to do, knows, you know, all of the things that kind of make the kids lives function, and stuff like that. And it's just not quite that. Easy to flip the switch. Right. Like there can be a progressive build, which I think, you know, we've obviously been working on and I really appreciate some of the kind of materials that you've shared with us on, on doing that, and that's incrementally good, but that's not, okay, here's 20 things. This person's going to walk in tomorrow and do the way you want them done.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm hmm. have you gone through the exercise of getting out of your brain that list of 20 to 30 things?

Stephanie: Yes.  That helps. That helps a bit but I think with our, Okay. renovation project. it's recently been a, you take one thing off and add five more like every day.

Tiffany Sauder: When is the renovation? I know this is a little bit of a, charged question, but let's imagine, you know, the answer to it when you think it will be done. I just don't have a sense. Is it like six months from now? Six weeks? You're like, it's anybody's

Stephanie: Well, it was, it was supposed

Tiffany Sauder: all renovation projects, it hasn't gone

Stephanie: no, it, um, it was supposed to be done at some point, September, October, November, even.  Um, we have essentially severed ties with that contractor. And so we now have to, like, pick up the pieces and find someone else to do the work,

Tiffany Sauder: Um, okay, so this is one of the things I wanted to do, is

Okay, I'm gonna give you four questions

What's one thing you do right now in the home that you hate or dread when it's on your to do list? don't tell me the answer. Just tell me when you're done. We'll go back to it. Um, It pisses me off when my spouse dot dot dot Uh, one thing I wish would happen more consistently in our home right now that doesn't is

One thing personally I don't have time for right now that I wish I did.

Those are the questions. So we're going to go back through and you're going to tell me the answers to each and then we'll talk about it.

so one thing that you hate or dread right now when it's on your to do list,

Stephanie: Return, stuff. Like, I've given our nanny, house manager, The actual packages to take back, great, life changing, but the like, filling out the form, getting the label, that crap, I need to stop buying stuff, that's really the problem, yes.

Tiffany Sauder: but you won't. It's because, because it's a, because it's a time hack and it's the way it's just, let's just be honest. You won't. Okay. So returns, but it's the prepping them. Okay. Okay.  It pisses me off with my spouse. Do

Stephanie: I would say when he moves my stuff and like, I've tried very deliberately, especially in the new house to create dedicated spaces for things. And you know, we talked about Chris is very clean and orderly and I am not as much. And so if something is out, it's probably because I'm tackling one of the other 25 things on my to do list. And so like, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

one thing you wish would happen more consistently in your home right now that doesn't.

like unplanned family time. Um, so unless there is like a deliberate event. I don't feel like the four of us hang out a lot.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm hmm. What are the things that make you most feel like a mom? Like you talked about your mom stayed home, which, so did mine. And so there's, I've have found subconsciously. As I've put them in my consciousness, it's helpful. There's things that make me like, feel like a mom. 'cause that was what, those are the things I saw my mom do.

And so those are mom things in my head. And some of 'em I want to do, I don't want to outsource. So do you feel like you know what those things are for you? Like these things make me feel like a mom. Mm-Hmm?

Stephanie: I would say one of them is taking the kids to school in the morning. So like doing it every day is hard, especially because of the commute we talked about, but I think in the morning, like before anything else has gone wrong in their day and they're generally like chatting in a decent mood and like it just feels like it's quality time with them. Um, And then you get to see their cute little faces run off into school.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-Hmm. . What else?

Stephanie: Um, going to things like we went to Newfields last night for winter lights. Um, or, you know, like going to, uh, Santa breakfast or things like that, that I think are the fun parts, even if there are some meltdowns, but like they're supposed to be meltdowns.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-Hmm.

Stephanie: Um, you know, I think things like that are kind of my favorite type of events.

Tiffany Sauder: Okay. Then the fourth question I asked you was one thing personally, you don't have time for right now that you wish you did.

Stephanie: more time to hang out with my friends. I have a few close friends in Indy, but then some that are not very close. again, I think we're all kind of in the season with, you know, two careers, young kids that trying to plan something with them is okay. How about six weeks out? Great.

Tiffany Sauder: Is it drivable? Is every, can everybody get together with a drive? Like, are you all close enough that you can do that? Okay,

Stephanie: close girlfriends from college, ones out on the East coast, um, one's here, one's in St. Louis. So some of us are drivable, but one's not.

Tiffany Sauder: so let's go back up to the top one, which is the one thing you do that you hate or dread when it's on your list is returns. So it's the prepping them part. what? not possible right now about like handing the whole process off to your house manager, nanny person.

Stephanie: Probably could, but it's a lot of like random wagons and whatnot. Like I could give her my entire email and all of those things. You know, now that we talk about this, I probably should just create a different shopping email. And put it all there, as we say these words out loud.

Tiffany Sauder: Well, that's part of the point of this process is to say like, if I were to try to solve for the thing that just pisses me off the most, cause that energy doesn't go anywhere productive. It's something you hate. You're probably really willing to give it away cause you don't like it. And so it's like, well, what's hard about it?

Well, one is. She needs my logins for everything. It's like, okay. Well, I can set up. Yeah Stephanie shops at gmail. com And she like literally manages it and you like get a semi crappy iPad at home that she can log in and hook it up To the printer and it's like hey because I I have that same annoyance.

You are probably like me. I hate all things administrative. They drive me crazy. They make my eyeballs boil

Stephanie: Ask my poor accounting team about my inability to do an expense report at work. So

Tiffany Sauder: is to like enforce it across the organization. I know, right? I know we all have gifts, I also do a lot of online shopping and you don't return it, it becomes even more expensive And so then that becomes a different kind of racket and then you like see it in your house And there's like these unsightly boxes and then it's like oh my word I just want to throw it away.

That feels like the easiest thing to do. And I would guess that it's not going to go away because you have more time to online shop than you do to like physically drive yourself somewhere. And you're just not going to look stupid. Your kids are going to keep growing. You guys are tall. Like my husband and I, your kids are going to grow fast. You're going to need like eight pairs of shoes and like all, you just don't have time to go grab it.

So that could be something you solve for, is using an email that she has access to and having her reset the passwords and have her manage that return process. I've also found a lot of the return stuff, they have returned portals that just need the. Invoice number or the like customer ID number and don't necessarily need to log all the way into the portal. So you could be like, I want you to take a first pass at these, the ones that you can't. Let's sit down for 10 minutes together and do it so that next time, because you probably only order from 6 to 12 places, like it's not that many.

and so long as she can do that She probably can do 90 percent of it on her own and then the outliers You can sit down and say let's do this first one together. You've got the login now and you can rock and roll. So I think one of the things you have to be careful to of On this list of things that you don't want to do, don't make yourself the first solve.

I asked my house manager, I want you to try. And if you can't, then we'll sit down and do it together. So that the next time, you know, I've critically thought through it, or if there's a piece of content that she doesn't have or piece of password or something, then it's not just this constant ping pong ball of, Hey, this one didn't work.And now it's back in my lap. Like I don't. Want that to be a thing? Um, Oh,

Stephanie: been trying with the kids this try three before me concept so like I can't find this dress. Try three places and then come talk to Tim

Tiffany Sauder: word. I'm obsessed with that because mom is the first reaction to everything in life and freedom. And yes, I'm going to do that.

Stephanie: do we get to three? Questionable. If  it was fully audited, would it be three unique spots? Probably not. But,

Tiffany Sauder: Spoken like an actual CFO. That's amazing.

Stephanie: um, I would say they at least try one, which is better than zero.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, it's the thinking process or like, let's think of three together. Where could you go look at that? I like that a lot.

Stephanie: okay, let's talk about unplanned fun. what would that look like to you?

I would say it could be as simple as a movie, or like my oldest is really into like board games. my three year old is generally willing to, like, participate on someone's team if she doesn't have the skills to play a board game, which I think is, is, good.  or like, you know, a walk, going to the park. I don't know that it needs to be like, ooh, we're going to have this whole day

Tiffany Sauder: Mm hmm.

Stephanie: Um, I would like it to be more like food or like meal based, um, but given that I don't have a functional kitchen at the moment, we're going to table that.

Tiffany Sauder: So one of the things that we did, Stephanie, because, in jobs that have a lot of demands for your time and like the other organizations that we're involved in that have a lot of weekend stuff and I am a scheduler. If somebody invites us to something and I pull up that day and there's nothing on it.

Yeah, sure. Totally. We'll be there without stepping back and like looking at the whole month. Like, Oh, that's the only day that we were free. And so I started going. Quarterly usually works the best just as my kids have gotten older. I don't always have schedules and stuff ahead of time and actually planning unplanned.  it used to be, I could do like a whole weekend was just like, it literally said unplanned on it. And the point was that we could go see my great grandma if we wanted to, And so when I went and looked at those days, I was like, Oh, this is our unplanned weekend. And so, no, we can't come. We are free, but I'd already committed to doing nothing, which is different than being uncommitted, you know, and that was a really helpful thing. We kind of do free Fridays now where most of the time. We don't schedule things on Friday nights. Jaren and I don't do date nights that night. We're just slower to say yes. As the kids have gotten older, Friday is like the night they often want to have friends over before the football game. And so free Fridays for me is just kind of a key to myself. I'm like, I want to be flexible for what. The kids kind of want it to have happen because if I'm already scheduled, then I can't be fun mom. And that's one of the things that gives me the sense of like mom, this is being able to host and have the kids there. And that I'm not too busy for that is an important part of my experience of a mom. So actually putting on your calendar, this is just going to be. We've committed to this being flexible. This being free is different than being uncommitted. Then like your kids are maybe a little young for this, but we did this fun thing with the girls where I think I saw it on Instagram. Everybody picked a different aisle in the grocery store. And walked down it like with their eyes closed and somebody else said stop and they like had their fingers out and whatever they were pointing at they had to go get each like I did it each of the girls did it and so we had this random menagerie of stuff and that's what we were going to go make dinner with um and it was just like silly I think I ended up throwing in a pizza at the end of it but it was like stuff you'd never buy you know it was like so fun it felt so Kind of like breaking the rules with my kids and it was very fun. So I think just having the chance, like be creative like that is like, I think a part of having young kids that you can miss when you're so programmed and so busy. And so planning to be unplanned for me was a trap of like, no, I have planned to be flexible and that's different than just not having planned anything. So that could work, that could help possibly

Stephanie: Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder: who takes the lead in. Is it you versus Chris on just like weekends and planning stuff with the girls?

Stephanie: Yes.

Tiffany Sauder: Does, does that annoy you or do you like having control?

Stephanie: I like it for the most part. Um, sometimes it gets exhausting.

Tiffany Sauder: What part gets exhausting when it does?

Stephanie: There's four humans that all don't always want to do the exact same thing.

And I think for the most part, like, the girls and I have gotten used to like, sometimes Chris just doesn't want to come on various things. And so, like, we'll just do it together, but then we lose the, the family time or the relationship time or whatnot, which then something else needs to, you know, do that too.

And does he not want to come because he doesn't like it? The activity, not like being with you guys, because he just needs downtime in a way that you don't. I think sometimes he prefers to do his own thing. I think sometimes it's a recharge,

Tiffany Sauder: I know that I learned with JR and I that I had to observe the way that he rests is different than me and I had to learn to respect that because I took it as like,That he was kind of being a party pooper, you know, like I'm just more fun than you was kind of like my assessment of the whole thing, which is actually not true, but it does come differently. Like, I can be a 10 speed because I get so much energy from being out and being with people and new experiences. I will go exhaust myself and come back recharged. And he's like, what in the world? Like. I just needed some time at home and I was not respecting that very well. So we had to find some new language around that. And I had to realize part of me honoring us as a family was honoring the space he needed, even if I did any of that. So I don't know if that's the same scenario for you guys, but it was definitely a growing part of our relationship and I was pretty judgy about it.

Stephanie: you know, like we went to Yuletide on Thursday, we had our thing on Saturday, and we went to Newfield last night, and like, I'm fine, I'm a little tired, but like, generally so, season of life. Chris is like, oh my god, three events in like four days, I'm exhausted. That  part I get. So. Um, I think, you know, we both kind of know that December with the holidays and the birthdays and whatnot is kind of chaos.  it just takes more. effort to make sure we still get that quality family time.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm hmm. And like, give yourself credit for it. Like, tell him this is one of the things I'd like to try to like, pause intentionally for you to have space and also so that I can feel like we're kind of checking off for you. Like, I want this family time, like all four of us together is part of my picture of what. Life looks like and, we can tag in and out like crazy. Our friends at church will joke, you guys are like never in the same car, you know, if one's here, the other one's not. And it's like, it's funny, but you start to realize like that's going to be your whole existence if you're not careful. yeah, all of us in the car is like, actually hard to do like, what, you know, how did we get here? And so I don't know. It's like, definitely something to think about. uh, what is advice that you would give your kids at this stage of life right now? Like, when your kids are, Your age and they have young kids. What advice would you give them?

Stephanie: Something along the lines of like the only person you're trying to like have it all for is yourself and you're never going to get there. And so like better to settle that your heart and your brain sooner. Rather than later, like the more that you keep trying,you're just going to exhaust yourself and until you're confident in what you want and what you don't want, that everything else is just going to feel like it's keeping in on you.

Tiffany Sauder: Are there things along the way Stephanie that you felt like you thought you wanted and realized you tried it and you're like I don't

Stephanie: I thought I could do the stay at home mom thing better than I could. when Parker was younger,she was like a year or something. the job that I had ended up moving to Salt Lake City and I didn't want to move. This was before our business and whatnot. Um, and so I got like a separation from the company.

I have a young kid at home and I was like, cool, I'll still get paid and I'll try out this, you know, stay at home mom life and I'll, I'll go from there. Um, I lasted a week. we went to Target twice. We went to the indoor playground. We did all of the things and I was like, okay, this is terrible. I can't do this anymore.

And like, I just felt like I was such a terrible mom that I couldn't give my kid the, the attention and the interaction that she needed. I didn't, didn't have the capacity for it when I was trying to do it all day. And so I was like, I am a much better mom when I am working. And so I ended up getting a job like a few weeks later.

And, You know, that was actually when I started working for one of the, construction and materials companies and somehow found my way here. So it obviously worked out that it was like a great test drive of, you know, I think when, when you first become, a working mom, it's like, okay, well, which one should I be?

And you always kind of want to be in the other place, right? Like you're at work and you feel like you should be at home nursing the baby or you're with the baby and you feel like you should be finishing some project. And that I got all of that out of my system. And so there's no like, Oh, I wish I could be home

Tiffany Sauder: I think that story is so powerful to share Stephanie I have so many young moms, I feel like, who ask me, how did you know, like, what you were supposed to be? But just because you're sure this is what you're supposed to be doesn't mean that it's easy or that it's simple.

Stephanie: Yes.

Tiffany Sauder: But it is, there's a peacefulness with your choice that this is the hard you want to solve for.Mm hmm. Mm

Stephanie: have you heard, I think it's Nora Roberts glass ball theory. Okay. So,there's this concept of you're juggling all of these balls and like some are glass and some are plastic. and so those balls can represent anything, whether it's your relationship or like, uh, a pageant at the kids school or, you know, uh, soccer practice or a work paper or, you know, a one on one conversation with someone, um, at work or, you know, everything has a ball with some of the work ones are glass. I have a board meeting tomorrow. That's a glass ball.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm

Stephanie: Some of the work ones are plastic. They can be moved. They can be rescheduled. And like, yeah, it would be nice to do, but it can wait until next quarter.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm

Stephanie: Same concept for stuff at home, right? And the art is finding which ones are glass. And making sure the glass balls don't drop. The plastic ones, yeah, it's not great. It's, you know, Doesn't feel good. Like having a plastic one job. Those aren't going to do any like they're not going to lasting impacts on your relationship or your, your, um, ability to parent your kids or anything like that, but just plastic. I was having this conversation with one of my good girlfriends who has a newborn.

And, um, I was saying I was like, You're really used to being able to keep all of the balls in the air. That's what you do with a successful woman, that you've just been able to. But now with a newborn, some of these are plastic and it really sucks when those plastic ones hit the floor, but it doesn't do anything.

Tiffany Sauder: hmm. Oh my word. I feel like we're just gonna mic drop there. That was so profound, Stephanie.

Stephanie: I love

it. Yes, I use it all the time Some things seem like glass, and they aren't. the sooner you can figure out what the glass ones are, the better.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. And that like other layer that I think about is, when it's just you on the planet and you're juggling these balls, you get to kind of decide which ones are glass and which ones are plastic to you. And then you get into a relationship with someone else and. I also am fiercely independent, so we have that in common, but if I want to, be like, close to JR, I honor him by saying, like, which ones of my balls are glass to you and which ones are plastic? Like, what do you care about what you don't? And then as you start to get kids and they get older, they can tell you, like, What's important to them and how do I show up well for you? And I love that additional dimension to that whole thing of like, yeah, as a, when you have a baby, you're deciding for them, what's glass and what's plastic. But as they start to grow, they have their own like values that start to come in and like color the way that you want to show up in the world for them, even though it might be different than your own choice or selection. So

Stephanie: Yes. Like,  you know, are you, have you done the love languages thing?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm hmm.

Stephanie: So the other three people in my family are all a physical touch and I am not a toucher, but like all of them, that is one of their love languages and God, to me, that's a plastic ball. You don't have to touch me  ever. Um, But to them, that's like really important.And especially with my older one, my youngest daughter is like snuggly. My oldest one is not, but she still needs a big hug pretty often,

Tiffany Sauder: Mm

Stephanie: even if I have to fight for it.

Tiffany Sauder: You can tell in her mood and stuff.

Stephanie: Yeah. But I'm like, okay, you come here. We're just, we're just guys. And she's like, mom, put me down. And I'm like, you need this. You won't tell me that you need this, but I know

Tiffany Sauder: Eight, nine, ten. Yeah, you're like counting. It's too funny.

Stephanie: Okay. You can go now.

Tiffany Sauder: Thank you. Mm hmm. What's your love language?

Stephanie: I am an acts of service.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, that would have been my guess. Yeah, sure.well, okay, I have one last question and then I'll be done. Um, what is something that you feel like you're solving well in your family that other people might be able to learn from?

Stephanie: I am going to give myself more of the benefit of the doubt here. It's for the most part. I think when I am with the kids, like I try to be present. doesn't always work. sometimes there are things on my phone or they are driving me nuts and whatnot. I'm, I'm trying to be as present with them in the moment as I can. And I think part of that is because I've, I've structured our lives and that it's a, it's a finite time, right? and so, you know, all of the rest of the stuff can happen those other hours of the day, but as long as they aren't like driving me completely insane by bedtime. Yeah. We can read a whole book, and we can read an extra book, and I will patch you and do whatever other theatrics you have for stalling bed time.

Tiffany Sauder: Oh, I know. I told my husband that night. I was like, tell me I'll miss this. He's like, you will. I was like, I know, but it's so long. It takes so long.  So my third and fourth share a room. Do your girls. So what one gets the other ones. It's like you laid by her for three minutes. Will you lay by me for three minutes? She got to pick one. Can I pick one? I'm sure yours is on overdrive because they're so close. It's

Stephanie: Mmhmm.

Tiffany Sauder: like, Oh my word.

I'm dying right now. No, I can't. I cannot have an exponent on everything that I do.

Stephanie: Well, and I feel like my two, like, they just cause more chaos. Like, after I leave the room, there's like, even more chaos. I'm like, okay, we got to write this in sooner rather than later, but like, then like the older ones reading to the younger one, I'm like, okay, this is good for you to practice

Tiffany Sauder: It's so sweet. Yeah.

Stephanie: is good for you to like, hear someone else reading that isn't mom, but  then it's mom. What's this word? I don't know what this means. Sound it out. Make it up. I don't care.

Tiffany Sauder: Imagine you know how to Yeah. What the story's about. Amazing. Uh, well, Stephanie, thanks for jumping on with me

Stephanie: so much for having me honored to

Tiffany Sauder: You're strong and inspiring. You really are. You need to own that.

Stephanie: Thank you.

Tiffany Sauder: Good to see you,

Stephanie. Thanks.

Stephanie: you. Thank you.