Stepping Away but Not Stepping Back: My Transition from CEO to Founder

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:00]:

If I'm not that, what am I? What I do know for sure is that stepping out of this is right.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:08]:

I'm a small town kid, born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor and mentor. Seventeen years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy. And ever since, my husband JR and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep, that means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world. And I want that for you too. 

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:50]:

Okay, this is it. We are recording the podcast episode that is about my transition out of Element Three as CEO at the beginning of the year. And I don't know if this episode is more for me or for you, my amazing listeners, but it's just like the end. Not the end, the start of the next chapter. After 20 years of fighting and building and working and doing lots of things against all odds, as it takes when you start a business. And so as of January 2025, I've transitioned out of the CEO seat. And Kyler Mason, who's been our president for the last couple of years, he is moving into the CEO seat and I am moving into the founder seat. And so anyway, that's what's happening.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:36]:

And it's a season of just reflection and intense intentionality, I would say, over the last several weeks, months, years. And I just want to do an episode that talks about kind of what we did, why we did it, how I felt about it, what's happened inside of Element Three, like, since then, how the culture's evolved and changed. And so I'm just. I don't know. Again, I don't know if this is for me or for you, but I feel like this podcast at some level is kind of my audible diary of the journey of my life and what I'm living and learning. And so this is one of those episodes. This is part of what I'm living and learning. I'll try to be linear, but, you know, my journey, my story, I'll do my best.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:18]:

So that's what we're gonna do. Today. I'm sitting in my home office that is like 15% functional for the way that I actually need to use it, which is fine. That's what happens when you're in transition. And if you're watching this on YouTube, I'm sitting in one of My pink chairs that were, I would just say, iconic to my Office. At Element Three at the agency, these two pink chairs were in there, and they were kind of like my bright lipstick in my office. And I loved them, and I still have a real affinity for them. And so I'm recording this episode from these chairs because it feel.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:50]:

Feels. Just feels right to me. I was kind of struggling with how to get this story out of myself. And so I actually went to ChatGPT and I said, okay, GPT, you are a Forbes reporter, and you are reporting on a leadership transition moment where there's a female founder, me, stepping out of an agent company that she built for 20 years and moving into a new season of life. What questions would you ask that person to benefit your readers? That was my ChatGPT prompt, and it spit out, like, 25 questions, and I have picked 12 of those that I'm gonna, like, ask myself. And so, I don't know, I think for me, it was like, almost having, like, the perspective of the listener of if I were interviewing myself about the story, what would be the things that came forward? So we're gonna talk about kind of the leadership transition and the strategy of that, why it made sense for me, why it made sense for the business. Then we're going to go into just the company growth and culture. My own personal and professional identity shift.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:03:54]:

Because that definitely happens inside of a big thing like this when you've been known as one thing for so long, and then just like legacy and future vision. So that's kind of the pacing of how we're going to go through this. So for those who are new to the podcast or don't know me and my story at 25, I founded, and my dad and I bought a small little agency, and I rebranded and grew that over the last almost 20 years, I think it's been 19, actually, and it's been an amazing run. I have learned a lot. I was 25. I'm 44 today. And so we grew up together, this business. And I.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:04:31]:

I had all four kids while I was leading it. We went through a global recession. We went through the COVID pandemic. I went through just a lot of seasons in my own identity as a person and growing up and learning how to be a leader and knowing how to build culture and understanding the importance of cash and being able to make space for other people's abilities and understanding that you don't have to be at all. In fact, when you are trying to be at all, it doesn't work at all actually learning when to be selfish and when to be generous, learning how to manage my time. Like, honestly, all of what I teach today inside of the Life of And like, would not have been made, would not have been birthed if I didn't have this incredible. I sort of feel like first leg of my professional career for the last 20 years of growing this agency. So anyway, pretty crazy, pretty special.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:05:25]:

We'll see if I cry in this episode. I don't know. We'll see. Okay, so here's the questions we're going to get to them. The first one, what prompted my decision to step down as CEO and transition into the founder role? And how did I know that the timing was right for this shift? So about three years ago, Quincy, our youngest, is four years old, four and a half. And my husband took a new job at a new company right at three years ago, three and a half maybe. And I think we, we both knew that that new opportunity had a chance to really become something pretty big. It's a company that had, that has a lot of growth potential.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:06]:

We knew that the responsibility and opportunity in front of him was going to be really big for him. And a big opportunity for our family. Began kind of reading the tea leaves on, you know, if you have kids today, you know how old they're going to be in three, five, seven, 10 years. And so we started to look at how old our kids were going to be as we looked forward three to five years. And we began to telegraph a little bit for ourselves of like, what is this job likely going to require if he does get the opportunity to become president? Which that happened about six months ago. And what's that going to require of him? The time required, the travel required, the capacity required. And as our kids get older, they need us in different ways. They need a mom in different ways.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:52]:

It's more logistics, there's more late night parenting. It just changes. And I think we all saw in the next few years, when we were kind of looking at this three, four years ago, that what's going to be required of us as a family and what we want to be able to say yes to, there's some things that are going to need to change. And I knew I was going to need to create capacity and flexibility in a way that was not necessarily going to be conducive with what my role at Element Three was requiring of me. And we started to say, hey, as the agency gets bigger, as my job gets bigger, as our footprint as a business at Element Three gets bigger and requires more travel as JR's job was getting bigger as their footprint is national and he's traveling all over the place gone. I mean some months it's 50% of the time. And our kids, as they start to get really involved in activities in your community, they're very rooted in the here and in like the six miles, you know, around our house and just started to see this is going to be really difficult to pull off. And so does it make sense to make some changes in one of our worlds so that we can have more flexibility? And, and so that was one part of it is part of it was just our family dynamics and what we saw coming.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:08:08]:

And that's a piece of it for sure. Another piece of it was I was starting to see and understand and accept that I am a startup leader. I am not a scale up leader. I have a lot of firepower and energy when things are very messy and nebulous and undefined and it requires a ton of testing. And it's like the picture in my mind's eye is like you're in a jungle and you have a machete and I'm like, I'm all in. Like there's no path paved. I love the messy beginning. It takes a lot of courage and a lot of audacity and not a lot of skill, I think, I don't know, it's kind of how it feels to me.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:08:47]:

It's just like a lot of guts. And I love the beginning part. I think I'm really good at the first five to seven million dollars of a business and when there starts to be org charts and I think that you hear the story in a lot of founders is like as it starts to get more complex and there's more processes and there's more compliance and we've got all of these, you know, data and cybersecurity things that have to be like, our people need to be trained on and brought in. Like it is so good and that is so right and that is totally the right thing. It's just not the right environment for me. And I started to see that, that I didn't have the same kind of confidence in my competence to be able to really lead the business to the next level. And there was a ton of potential in the business. And while I had solved a lot of really hard problems, I started to see and believe that maybe I wasn't the leader that was going to take Element Three to the next stage of growth.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:09:50]:

And it took me a little while to like work through that. But I think we all started to see that maybe that was the case. And the third piece was Kyler Mason, who is president and CEO today. He was ready to lead something. We had worked together for almost 10 years, and when he was 24, 23, 22, something like that, when he started working for me, when he started, he told me he wanted to run a business. Like, that was not new information. That was always something that Kyler wanted to do. And so he's 10, 12 years into the journey with me and he was ready to figure out if he could lead something.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:10:25]:

And so he wasn't like giving me this ultimatum of like, hey, move aside because I'm ready to run this. But he kind of needed to know, am I going to get a chance to lead in a real way here, or do I need to go find something else or go start something? Like, what is that going to look like? So his readiness, my awareness and my family situation, circumstances of, of me wanting to be more present for the season of life, that was all the ingredients that came together that allowed this transition to take place. If I wanted to step back and there was nobody qualified to step in, that's a lot harder to do when you're the makings of your career inside of this business. I would have had a lot different options if Kyler wasn't in place. If we didn't have the trust that we had with one another, if he didn't have the respect and trust and of our leadership team. Like, all of those things are really, really important. I'll talk about some of that stuff in a little bit, but that's okay. That's a long answer to, like, what prompted my decision to step down and how did I know it was the right timing for this shift? That was a big part of it.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:11:27]:

And one of the questions here is like, how did I choose my successors and what qualities did I prioritize in that decision? I think the number one thing is that the leader has to be aligned with your core values as a business. That is absolutely, number one, non negotiable. The second is that Kyler and I would literally take a bullet for one another. And I think not everybody needs to lead besides someone quite that, like, I'll say the word familial like, but for me is important. This is a deeply personal journey for me of building this business, leading these people. Like it is, it just is. And I think the second was just this complete and utter incomprehensible trust that I have in Kyler to have my back, to talk to me as readily about the good news as the bad news, to not posture to just like be him and that I could support him. So I don't know that's so nebulous.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:12:28]:

But number one was the values alignment. And the second is just this important trust between me and the person taking over. And I think in a founder environment, that is so important because it's like when the team looks in my eyeballs and sees when I'm listening to Kyler, I trust and I believe and I'm behind him. That gives clues that they need to trust and believe and get behind him. And it is like a hundred percent honest from me. And I'm very vulnerable and I'm very transparent and I'm pretty easy to read. And so if I'm not at a place where I believe him and I'm behind him and I'm supporting him, then the team is never going to actually believe that he's their leader. And so maybe that is important and transferable.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:13:13]:

But we spent hundreds and thousands of hours together over the last 12 years. But even when I put a leader in place before Kyler who was successful, he just went on to do something else. I spent two hours a week with that individual just talking about things. Who are you? Who am I? How would you deal with the situation? What do these values mean to you? I read this article. What does it mean to you? What do you think about this stuff? You have to know one another, not just what do you know and how smart of you are you? And do you know how to like, put together a cash flow forecast? Like, yeah, that stuff is important. And the X's and O's of business are certainly critical to master. But there's a whole lot more people out there that know how to do that than it is who know how to make sure that you stick the landing on the cultural piece. Because the rest of it is knowledge, stuff that you can learn.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:02]:

The other is chemistry. And the chemistry part I don't think you can learn that we can get better at it. Kyler and I have certainly refined the way that we communicate with one another when we're misunderstanding one another. Hey, can you give me a pre read on this next time so that I have time to think about it? Or he asked me all the time when working on things like, what's going to piss you off about this? And I'll be like, okay, it's going to piss me off if I feel like I have two seconds to make a decision on something that you've been thinking about. For nine months, that's going to piss me off. It's like, great, now I know what to manage. But having that vocabulary and having that trust and knowing how to work together, like that's the X factor. So that's how I chose a successor.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:44]:

The other question here on my sheet of paper from ChatGPT, my Forbes reporter, is what does the founder role look like in our company and how actively involved am I still? Great question, GPT, a founder role. So I still own the majority of the agency and so it's really important to me financially, very important to me that I make Kyler look very smart for saying yes to this opportunity. He's got, you know, one 20 year segment of time between 34 and 54 and he's giving me some really important years in his career and my job is to make sure that he's like, holy crap, Tiffany, I'm so glad I made this bet. I'm so glad we did this together. I'm so glad you trusted me with this business. And so I feel a tremendous amount of responsibility and loyalty to helping him be as successful as possible. And so as a founder, those are things that I still feel like I have primary ownership for making sure that this business is going concern, financially performs and that Kyler is set up for success and the resources that he needs for the people and the teams and the projects that we talk about, think about resource, prioritize those so that he feels like he, he's set up for success. So I feel like that's my job description, those two things.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:15:58]:

How am I functionally involved in the business? I am still involved in a, I would say a sales and marketing capacity. I still have a big network, I still talk a lot to a lot of people and I want to make sure that they remember that I have amazing people who work inside of Element Three that do great marketing. And so I'll continue to see myself as like a new business resource and like a function of bringing revenue to the agency that fits the work that we can do really well. I'm also involved from a marketing perspective, just like keeping us honest. I feel like I have a really good meter when things start to be like 16, 20 words strung together and it doesn't really mean anything and it's like just marketers marketing marketing to themselves. I, I just like, I have a really good bullshit meter for that. And so I'm just like, hey, these words are gross. This doesn't mean anything.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:47]:

And so I think I'm helpful from that perspective. I like to Be involved with events that we do and just helping think about how do we curate really memorable experiences for our network and for our clients and prospects and create an environment where we do great work with people that you like. And so how do we find people that we like a lot and figure out how to do work together. So that's a way that I'm still involved. A piece of advice I'd give to someone who's thinking about this transition is you have to get in a place where you can get primary data still so that not everything you're getting is through somebody else's filter. And I feel like I spent 2024 figuring this out. So there is one meeting that I attend weekly. It's our revenue operations meeting.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:17:32]:

And it's like a six minute update from like four or five different departments. 30 minutes. And it gives me a great pulse on what's going on. It's kind of allows think about the visual in my mind is like standing on a river and being able to watch how fast it's moving. If there's rocks in the water, if there's a riptide, if there's like a dead fish, like it just helps me kind of see the current and what's happening and what's moving. So that is a place where I get primary data. It allows me to be able to just hear for things. And I don't always know what I'm listening for, but I pick up on stuff and it gives me a place where I can text Kyler or call somebody in the meeting and say, hey, give me more information on this or I've seen this before or you guys keep repeating this problem over and over again.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:18:15]:

Are we like going to actually solve this or are we just going to live with it? Like, it just allows me to see trends and themes. And so having a place where you get primary data is very helpful. The leadership team executive team does not report to me. They have not for several years. And so I still attend quarterly an event with them and I still meet with my executive leaders once a quarter. Just how can I help what's going on? What can I be a resource for? What's something you're stuck with or stuck on? So those are the things that I do quarterly. We go out for dinner as a leadership team. Quarterly I meet with with each one of the executives individually.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:18:51]:

I attend the weekly RevOps meeting and then I attend our quarterly kickoffs. We run on EOS. And so that quarterly kickoff is a big piece. So part of the company sees me inside the office. So, anyway, a little bit of details, but that's how I'm still involved. So I'm like, definitely still around, but I'm not really making decisions. The only decisions I really make is approving business plan in any capital expenditures that we make as a business that's outside of plan. Other than that, it is totally Kyler's ship to run, and I hope he never feels like I'm trying to rip back control of that.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:24]:

So that's a little bit about this transition strategy. I, I, I'll say this, I guess as well. We did this very slowly. We have literally been working on this for three years. And I think one of the mistakes that companies make is they start the transition period before whoever is moving aside is tired and done and grumpy and spent or no longer doing a good job. And while Kyler is most certainly doing a better job than I was inside of that role, at this size of that we are, I feel like I showed up really well until the last day. I wasn't too tired to kind of finish well. And I still have a lot of energy to find out how I can contribute well inside of this new role, this new construct of how we are.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:20:10]:

So I think a mistake people make is they wait too long. They feel like talking about it early is going to spook people. And so it just kind of stays secretive and stays quiet. So myself and Kyler and Karen, our head of talent, we've literally been talking about this for three years. And it allowed me to give Kyler new responsibility, allowed me to test things with him. It allowed us both to just get comfortable with it. And so when it happened, it's like, we've already been operating like this for six months. This is like, not new at all.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:20:45]:

So Karen, Kyler and I have been working on it for three years. We have been, I would say, telegraphing it to the executive team for probably the better parts of 18 months. I mean, when Kyler became president three years ago, I think they probably were like, okay, we'll see where this goes. Maybe he'll just become both CEO and president. And then I told our executive team it was probably right about four or five months before we announced it to the outside world that this was taking place. I was moving to founder and Kyla was moving to CEO. So they had time to just like, ask questions and work through their own norming process with, okay, what does this mean? We had a chance to kind of work out the questions. And then for our team, team internally, we told them about two months before, we told the outside world.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:35]:

So, again, that it wasn't about keeping it a secret. It was just getting everybody comfortable with this, and it wasn't this, like, quick succession of things. We just took our time. And I think if I ever do this again, taking my time will be a big piece of it. And I think mistakes are made and the culture gets broken and trust gets a little bit severed. Sometimes when you try to rush people through this process, because there is a lot of trust put in leaders, and I think when it goes too fast, sometimes it can wreck the culture unnecessarily. Okay, I was just kind of talking about company growth and culture. Some of the next questions are about that.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:22:11]:

One is like, how have I seen the company evolve under this new leadership? I would say, in so many ways, our company feels exactly the same. We have a very established purpose, we have very established values, and we have a very established cadence of communication and interaction with the business. That has not changed. I think Kyler also sees those as very important and sacred. But I think what has changed is that Kyler and I are different leaders. And so I had to give him the space, and he had to learn how to, you know, my type of interacting with the company and the things that. How I would present and just the things that I was doing were different, and then the things that he was doing. And so I just had to create space for him to kind of find his own voice and style inside of the same framework that the company's used to.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:22:59]:

So I think that was maybe also an important part of the transition, is the tools didn't change, but what came through, it did, because it's a different person, but they're used to interacting with us in a certain way, like the team is used to interacting with leadership in a certain way. And the format really didn't change. It was just who was speaking changed. Okay, how is this transition? We're moving to personal and professional identity. How has this changed my identity? I probably would have been wise to have journaled this part along the way, because I think this is the hardest part, is for so long, I was this company and this company was me. And when people saw me, they thought of Element Three, and they were just very closely aligned. Our growth journeys were, like, completely in tandem with one another. And I think the work that I did, honestly, when I launched this podcast and went through the Fear Journey, the work that I did in that season was about beginning to separate the roles that I play in the world and my identity as a person.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:23:59]:

Because when I started this, I literally had no way to describe myself. I had no words that came to mind. I had no value that I understood about myself that was outside of a role. Like, I just only thought of roles. I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a CEO, I'm an entrepreneur, I have financial abilities, I'm a marketer, I'm a brand strategist. It's just like literally the only way that I saw any value that I created in the world. And it's not anybody's fault but my own, but it's just my identity was very tied up in my performance. And I think the uncoupling of that was a really critical piece to this transition out of this role, to not, like, wreck me personally and to still see myself as adding a lot of value.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:48]:

Like, I have a ton of ideas. I am funny sometimes. I'm creative. I like to make things. I like to be social, I like to laugh, I like to meet new people. Those are things I like to do. That's who I am. And I do those in lots of applications.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:05]:

But I can take that part of me into anywhere. And I think that uncoupling of me being able to only do those things inside of this environment of being a CEO and saying, no, I can leave some of those things that I am in the company, I can still contribute those things that I'm a 10x at, like, let's still do those things. Move aside. Make room for other people to be able to do other stuff and go continue your adventure. Tiffany. I'm so growth minded. To me, the most important currency in life is to learn something every day, to make something new, to build and to test and to just do stuff. I love it.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:47]:

And so while there was this very uncomfortable pause between if I'm not that, what am I? I'm learning. There's, like bravery in that pause. And there's bravery and saying, I don't know. But what I do know for sure is that stepping out of this is right. Stepping out of these things and making room for others, that's first, right? And figuring out the what next is a different problem. And so I think that personal and professional identity shift. I mean, I used to, like, turn red and sweat a little when people asked me what I did and I said I was the CEO of Element Three. That was very easy to say.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:25]:

And then I would say, like, I have a podcast. I would like whisper it under my, like, I Have a podcast like, oh, you have a podcast like, yeah, don't ask me what it's called because I don't want you to listen to. It was kind of like, where I started. I was afraid people would make fun of me. I was kind of embarrassed about the whole thing. And I have literally practiced. What I preach is just, like, claiming, like, I. I believe I have a unique story.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:45]:

I believe I have things I have learned, and I believe that if I share those in a way that is thoughtful and compelling, that other people can learn and change and grow, and they, too, can change the world. Like, that's literally I'm all about. And so I started to realize that leaving, moving aside, taking a different role had nothing to do with me failing, had nothing to do with me not having value, had nothing to do with me not being wanted, had nothing to do with anything. It. It just had to do with the fact that my time and talents had come to a place where I needed to recognize I need to move those to a new domain so that people who are uniquely qualified for this type of growth and this type of scaling and this type of making and creating, that they have the space to do that. What an incredible gift to give to someone who doesn't do the first part of it, but can scale it. And I started to be like, this is so cool. And so I think reframing it to myself was a really important part of me seeing that this is awesome.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:50]:

I don't know that I saw that this is what I would do. I don't know what I thought I would do. Run it until I died and resented it. I feel like that's what happens too often to founders, honestly. So we're so afraid to step aside that we run it until we're mad, and then you're not good at it anymore. And the business, like, it's just. It doesn't work. And so I feel grateful that I had the courage to step aside, that I had people who were willing to trust me also in this part of the journey.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:18]:

Because a lot of people, when you're the founder, they come to work for you, and you saying, like, this can be better. I promise it can be better than me leading it and then being like, yeah, right. Like, no, really, I think it will be better. And then, like, actually being better, then be like, you were right. It's like, yeah, I was kind of medium at this, but I was really good at the beginning part. And so them trusting you is a big deal. Okay, what's the most rewarding Part of this transition, for me, personally, I think I just said that I think it's creating opportunity for other people. I'm just, like, immensely proud of that.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:49]:

I've done so many things that people told me I couldn't do. And one of the things people told me is that agencies don't really survive moving on past their founders unless you're really big. Agencies of our size just don't usually survive past their founders. And I was like, yeah, I see that. It's true. Like, if you look around, there's a lot of stories, especially in our local market here, that really struggle to get past 20, 25, 30 years. Like, they don't go to a new owner and then or a new leadership team and just keep growing. And I was like, I think we can do it differently.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:23]:

I just really believe that, you know, time will tell, but we seem to be off to a fast start. If you would look at 2025. So here we go. Okay, last section here is Legacy and Future Vision. What legacy do you hope to leave behind at your company? I think the legacies around growth. Our purpose is to foster growth in people and business so that they can change the world. To foster growth in people and business so that they can change the world. So to foster growth.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:49]:

I believe if one person steps into growth, it gives everybody around them who's watching more courage to do the same. If one of us steps into growth, it gives everybody watching more courage to do the same. Think about your friend who's, like, training for a marathon. Your friend who, like, started their third business. Your friend who decided to, I don't know, foster kids. Like, you know, those people in your life that are just, like, they're literally always reaching for more. And you say to yourself, like, that shows me, that inspires me, that creates a new picture for me of, like, what's possible, how cool to be around those people. So if I can be that, if my leaders can be that, if everybody who works at Element Three can be that, I feel like I'm, like, lighting these little candles on the planet that are fostering growth in people.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:30:33]:

And when people grow and they put that growth to work inside of businesses, which are ever renewing with the fact that if they're financially viable, then you continue to keep getting new challenges, keep getting new problems, keep getting new opportunities, and you continue to grow. And that is, like, literally what I want the legacy to be, where people are. Like, I've never been in a place that challenged me so much, that taught me so much, that expected so Much of me that let me solve problems, that made you feel empowered, that just held a belief that each of us was important and was going to have impact in the world. Like, that's what I want my legacy to be. And I think Kyler is an incredible torchbearer for that. He lives it in a different way, but it is just core to who he is as well. Who he was raised to be, what he believes is important in the world. And I think that's what I want my legacy to be like on planet Earth.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:31:31]:

But I want Element Three to be a container for that. Two questions and then we're done. If I could give one piece of advice to founders considering stepping back from their CEO role, what would it be? I actually have three things here. What's one piece of advice? I would say there's three feelings that I had as I was going through this that I would want to sort of create a crystal ball and say, this for me is what happened and it may happen to you. One is that there's bravery in the pause. The truth is that there's discomfort in it. But I began to say to myself, there's bravery in this pause because all of a sudden you are not on every email. All of a sudden you are not in every meeting.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:12]:

All of a sudden you don't know what's happening behind every closed door. All of a sudden you don't know every gory detail of everything happening because you are not running the business anymore. And it's disorienting and uncomfortable to kind of like not be needed in that way. And there was like this knee jerk reaction to be like, what's going on? What's happening? Can you forward me that email string? Can you let me back in that Slack channel? I don't need to know. I am wanting to know because I don't have anything else to do with my time. I'm wanting to know because I'm being nosy. And the way it's going to be perceived as me wanting to know is that I don't trust what's being decided. And because I'm opinionated and a decision maker and a leader, I probably would insert my opinion and what I think they should do and they don't want it.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:57]:

Let them lead, Tiffany. Let them go. Let them roll. Like, let them go. And so that's what I would say is like, exchange these feelings of discomfort, of not being needed, of disorientation, of like, oh my word. I just don't have the same, like, email flow. I don't have the same slack alerts. I don't have the same information as I had before.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:17]:

And I reframed it and was like, maybe there's just bravery in this pause. There's bravery and being willing to try something different. There's bravery and trusting my team. There's bravery and believing that my mind is going to figure out where to go next. And that's a brave thing to do because the same is safe. Even if it's wrong, it's safe. And I began to say, I think this is a brave thing to do. So my advice would be to reframe that discomfort, that disorientation, that sense of like kind of weird loneliness that you don't belong in the same way.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:53]:

And those are good things. There's bravery in that. So, last question, and this is kind of our cliffhanger for the next episode is like, do I see myself starting another venture or am I gonna just be home or what? What am I? And I am just so enterprising and making and growth minded that I'm not good at sitting still for a long time. And so the next episode is going to go into more detail about what I'm working on, but it is going to be putting my energy into scaling this Life of And project. And I'm really excited for what we're working on. I've been so humbled by just the receptiveness and you know, the premise of the whole thing is how do I help professional women go from living a life of have to you have to do all these things. I have to do this stuff, I have to be these places, I have to this. And it's like life becomes so reactive and almost burdensome in a way that is embarrassing to admit.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:50]:

Then how do we live in a life of want to where I want to go to these places, I want to be with my people, I want to plan these events, I, I want to take this promotion, I want to do these things. And it's really picking up the pieces and the tools and the frameworks and the lessons that I've learned in my own journey of building businesses, growing families, and personally having big expectations that life's going to be fun. So thanks for listening to this episode. Thanks for being on this journey with me. I'm really excited for what 2025 is going to bring. And if you know somebody in your life who's contemplating a leadership transition or, you know, or like mine, stepping out of the founder or the CEO role and moving into more of an advisory board seat, founder role. I'd love it if you shared this episode with them. I've learned so much from other people's journeys, and I hope that this story, this tale, this experience helps one more person.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:45]:

As always, thanks for listening.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:48]:

Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling Fear, you will not decide what happens in my life. I will.

‍