You Want to Grow—So Why Are You Still Holding Back? with Brian Kavicky

Kenzie Kittle [00:00:00]:

It doesn't have to be forever. Whatever I choose. Like things can evolve and shift as they need to, which sometimes for me it feels like you make one decision and like that's how it is now. Like you can't go back, you can't pivot. And the truth is I've pivoted a thousand times and I think everyone who owns a business has pivoted a thousand times to adjust to the market or whatever is needed.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:20]:

I'm a small town kid, born with.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:00:22]:

A big city spirit.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:24]:

I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor and mentor. Seventeen years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy and ever since, my husband JR and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep, that means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world and I want that for you too. I'm Tiffany Sauder and this is Scared Confident, you guys. I'm loving this live coaching vibe that we have started doing with Brian Kavicki and so we're doing another one today. After we did our last one with Rachel, I told Brian we're doing more of this.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:15]:

This is so meaningful to learn right alongside somebody else. And he's in his prime when he's just like live helping people. That's been my experience with Brian over the last 12 years. So we're doing another one of those today, guys. It's gonna be very fun. Kenzie Kittle has so bravely and boldly decided to step on today because she really does not know what's going to happen. It's not like there's a rehearsal and then we push record. This is prime time and we got to hear.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:42]:

Kenzie and I have been working together for the last couple of years. She helps me with my social media in my life of and project. And as happens when you work closely together and she's in my home and like intimately understanding my life story, we get to know one another as people a lot better in that journey. And she's like a decade ish behind me, has one son, is married, an entrepreneur, business owner, an agency of like just a different kind. But it's the same thing. You're scaling your talent, scaling your service, scaling your brand, scaling your reputation, like walking this tightrope of like going towards your dreams and trying to stay sane and whole on the journey. So we were comparing a few notes and I said, Kenzie, Would you jump on and like share this with Brian and share this with my listeners? And she said yes. So that's how we got here.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:31]:

So, Kenzie welcome.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:02:35]:

Thank you. Thank you. I'm super excited. I admittedly I'm a little anxious because all of this word vomit that's supposed to come out, about to come out, is pretty much just what lives in my head all the time. But I think I'll just jump right in and ask a few questions if you guys don't mind. But Brian, do you have like a little backstory on kind of like my business, how we operate, all that, or would that be helpful?

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:02:59]:

I think it would be helpful for everybody.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:03:01]:

Okay, awesome. So before I started my agency I was like in house doing digital marketing for IMS, IndyCar, a few firms out in D.C. for a while and just fell in love with social media. And unlike a lot of other agencies, I really decided I wanted to like niche down and focus pretty much exclusively on social media because I think it's what I'm good at and what our team is really good at, which in some ways is really good because it's niche. But in some ways opportunity for growth is in doing everything. So I think for me, when I first went out on my own, I always saw it as kind of like a consultancy. I wasn't necessarily thinking agency, but I was always getting asked, how do you do social media? What are these things? As I was working in house and I was like, hey, there aren't a ton of consultants here. It was kind of agency or in house, in indie.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:03:51]:

And so I went out on my own and it grew really quickly, which is awesome and amazing and we love doing it. But I think then it got to the point where I was like, okay, I need to expand our team in order to kind of keep up with demand. So now I would qualify us as in this almost like a boutique social media marketing agency space. You know, it's more than just me, it's more than a consultancy, but it's, it's not necessarily like Element Three where it's like a full scale marketing agency and we've thrived in that space. I would say we know what we're good at, we focus on selling what we're good at and we deliver for our clients. But now I think for me, I would say we've been in that space, myself and our team of about four or five, we've been in that space for probably two or three years, which has also at the beginning it was like this massive growth phase Moving from consultancy to boutique agency at the same time I had my first baby. So ever since, you know, I had Miles two years ago, I would say we've kind of been in this, okay, we're okay being the size we are. And also me kind of learning how to be a mom and deal with all of the other types of time constraints that that brings.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:05:02]:

And now I think we're in this space where it's like, I have capacity to potentially grow it, but I also have the fear of what does that really look like to scale? How much time would it take to scale potentially away from my family if we did decide to have another child? What would that look like if we scaled? I think one thing that's unique about our model is that I myself and my team, we're the ones like really doing the work. And I love being in the work, not kind of high level, stepping away from it. So I think that's probably a personal challenge that I have is I know that when I'm doing it, I know that it's going to be done the way I want it done. And there's definitely some control things there that I should probably work on. But I think my fear is if I transition and start to scale this thing and grow it beyond just our team, that is really, really good and I'm really confident and I'm worried about losing quality, I'm worried about losing time, I'm worried about the flexibility aspect of it, and I'm worried about kind of having to step out of some of the day to day to focus on the high level. So I think just generally those are some of my fears. But I also recognize the opportunity that we have with that. And I think it's this constant battle of like, is it a good time to scale? Is it not? Is it worth it to scale? Is it not? And just the push and pull of those things.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:06:39]:

What do you want?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:06:41]:

That's a great question. I want to run and continue to grow a very successful business. I think that I've grown it to the point I could grow it if we're staying at a boutique level. Because there's only a certain amount of hours in a day, right? So I think in order to keep growing, the answer is to scale. And I do want to grow. But. But why? I'm nervous. Why do I want it to grow?

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:07:08]:

Why, why do you want to scale? Why do you want it to grow?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:07:11]:

I think for me, success in doing it, I think in for me, I want to continue to make a bigger impact and I get really excited when we work on big projects and I get really excited to be part of growing things and I want to do that on a bigger scale. So I think it's like a big personal goal of mine to keep growing it bigger and bigger.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:07:37]:

You think it's a personal goal or is a personal goal?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:07:41]:

It is. I will say who is. Which is ironic given that I'm an entrepreneur, but I'm very risk averse. So like for me, sometimes I'll let fear of the risk stop me from doing something. And it's something I know about myself. I know that I want to do this, but I'm afraid of what the steps would be to do it, if that makes sense.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:08:03]:

So what is the first step that you're worried is the big obstacle?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:08:08]:

The thing that's always really scared me about it is knowing how much more of the business I would have to delicate and step out of in order to let it grow.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:08:19]:

Okay, so you, you used a phrase, you said I love being in the work and that's what you're referencing, right?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:08:25]:

Yeah.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:08:26]:

If I, if I love being in the work, so then it's what do I love more? I love being in the work or I love growing this and doing bigger, cooler things. Which of those do you love more or even think you love more growing it?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:08:40]:

I think so.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:08:41]:

Is that an easy decision for you then? If I love growing it more than work, does that make it easier to begin to delegate? Like the how to delegate, how to do all those things?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:08:52]:

Yeah, it makes it easier. It's just I recognize that in delegating there are certain things that you have to step back from that I've never stepped back from. You know, apart from I would say maybe two of our employees who I explicitly trust with everything. And I'm like, yeah, they've got this. I know the value that we bring that is unique compared to a lot of other agencies is how closely we work with teams. And that's something that I'm very, very proud of is how ingrained we get. Because I, I love that we function as part of other teams and I'm worried that in growth we would lose that aspect.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:09:30]:

So where does, where does this idea of scarcity and limitation come from for you? What's the root of that? Because you're saying things as either or not and. Yeah, yeah, what is this either or. Where in order to grow, I have to let go of things in order to grow, I have to work on my family. Thing might look different. Like where does that come from for you?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:09:53]:

For me, it comes from time. And just recognizing time is a resource that is something I don't necessarily have a ton more of right now. So my concern is always how can I do more with the time that I have? And I know that in order to do some of these things to scale that I need to do, I would have to step back on the day to day to make time for that.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:10:19]:

And you said that, you said I have to. Why did you say it with that emphasis? What's your evidence that you have to too?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:10:27]:

Just because the way my days are, I know that I would have to make room somehow. And there are certain things I'm not willing to sacrifice. For example, like specific days I prioritize and block on my calendar to spend time with my son. And like that's been something that's become a non negotiable for me just because, you know, it's easy to get lost in the thick of owning a business of like constantly having to go to my computer. And so I know I'm not willing to sacrifice that. So the alternative is I'll have to sacrifice select amount of time in the business in order to make room to work on the business.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:11:05]:

Okay, so you, you put that structure in already of I have this boundary that says I'm not going to give up these this time no matter what, Correct?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:11:13]:

Yes.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:11:14]:

Okay, so now go back two, three years ago when you started the business as a consultancy and then you grew very, very rapidly. What things disappeared from your life when you did that?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:11:27]:

I would say hobbies. Hobbies and interests.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:11:31]:

Like what's the hobby you gave up?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:11:32]:

For example, I used to run a couple hours a day and like now I'll go to the gym for like 45 minutes, which I know it's probably not the best thing to do, but I sacrificed some of that time in order to spend more time on my business. At the time where we were growing so, so rapidly, right off the bat, my husband had a job that also worked weekends. So it was really easy for me to work on the weekends and not think twice about it. Whereas now that's just not the case. And some of that time I'm not going to give up. Right. So it was kind of like the amount of hours I had to work on the business, it was much higher than it is today.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:12:10]:

So let's use the weekend work as an example. So two or three years ago when I grew rapidly, I was working on the, on the business during the weekends. Now you're still not but you've grown and maintained. What structure and systems have you put in place that allowed you to maintain that?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:12:29]:

Honestly, time blocking, like, during the week right now, I have days that are exclusively meeting days, and I have days that are exclusively business days. I also have an Instagram blog, so I have blog days. And I'm really good about keeping each time block the way it needs to be to be as productive as I can be. And that helped make up for some of those weekend hours because I have so many buckets. Whether it's the blog and the business and all of these things, it's easy to let one suck my time now, as opposed to just focusing primarily on the agency side or whatever it may be. There's. There's a lot of competing things for time, I would say now that didn't always exist before.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:13:07]:

But you're also doing a lot of the right things. You're time blocking. You're putting priorities in place. You're building structure to allow you to do things. You're adjusting. Even like your hobbies of I used to run like this. You didn't give up exercising, you just changed the way you exercise. So you're doing a lot of the right things to adjust.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:13:26]:

But I want to go back to something you said very early on. You said, we've kind of thrived in that space. What does kind of mean for which space, specifically? When you were talking about your niche and what you've done, you said, we've kind of thrived for the last two or three years in that space. What does kind of mean?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:13:45]:

I would say as we've grown, like, we started really niche on social media. As we've grown and we get bigger and bigger clients, people start to ask us about other services. And I have a great network of subcontractors that we use or partners that we'll partner up with for things when we need it. But there's always been this little thing in my mind that's like, okay, like, does it make sense to be outsourcing this, or should we hire and do this internally? And the challenge I have with that is I know we're really, really good at social media. I know that's where our strengths lie. And I, I never have worked with not so great agencies in the past. I never want to sell something that we're not great at, if that makes sense. Like, that's just not how I am.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:14:26]:

So it sounds like you've made that decision.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:14:29]:

Yes, it does. But that's what I'm worried about. From a Scaling perspective is like, how great can you really scale if you're focused just on one niche, if that makes sense.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:14:39]:

Well, I mean there's evidence of companies that like what's the on shoes? They just make shoes. That's a niche. You know, when they, sure they have a couple shirts and stuff, but it's mostly me. Like there's a lot of companies that thrive on niche.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:14:55]:

That's true. Yeah.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:14:57]:

Let's say that you didn't have this fear. It just take fear out of the picture. What would you be doing if you weren't afraid of scaling?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:15:06]:

If I wasn't afraid of scaling, I would be networking much, much more than I currently do right now. We're very fortunate that most of our business is word of mouth marketing. And that's honestly how it's always been. But I think if I were to seriously scale, I would be attending more conferences, I would be out meeting with my contacts, I would be doing a lot more to win bigger business. But it just hasn't necessarily been a priority because it hasn't ever needed to be. But if we were going to scale, that would kind of be my next step. And I would also, you know, I thought about this a lot, hire probably a couple more people to put us in the right position that as we were winning more business, we had plenty of hands to do the work.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:15:49]:

So do you think this is a, an operational constraint issue or a revenue and business development issue?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:15:56]:

Operational.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:15:57]:

If you weren't afraid, I'd be out marketing, I'd be networking, I'd be going and getting business. Why did you answer operational?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:16:05]:

Because even without doing those things, we have a lot of folks reaching out to us all the time that I don't necessarily say yes to because we don't. I'm very selective about who we work with right now based on how many hands we have to do the work. Because I won't go above a certain amount to make sure we can produce the quality I want to produce. So I would say step one would be we'd need to hire more. But step two would then be I need to go out and win bigger business. Which yes, we'd still have the word of mouth. But if I was really going to scale this thing, it would need to be bigger than just word of mouth.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:16:42]:

But why don't you just hire the people?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:16:45]:

Because I'm very risk averse. I don't like, I don't like the, the I'm afraid. You know, my dad tells me all the time the same thing. He's like, you just need to hire somebody. And I'm like, yes, I probably do. And we. I've got a couple full time employees. My husband works with me full time as well and does all the blog side of brand deals and all of that.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:17:06]:

So I think for me, I always have this immense fear that like, what if it all goes wrong and everything falls on the business and it doesn't do it right and I hire these people and I let everyone down.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:17:18]:

So if you had people lined up waiting to work with you.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:17:22]:

Yes.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:17:23]:

Saying we want to give you money, just tell us when you can take us on, would you still hold back on hiring?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:17:30]:

I would still be anxious about it.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:17:33]:

But I'm also wind up out your door ready to give you business.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:17:38]:

I totally acknowledge that. That sounds crazy, but I, I am. I. My dad has told me for years. He's like, you're. You have way too much anxiety about things. You've got to get over it. But it's how I've been since I was a kid.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:17:51]:

I think there's something in the words of let people down.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:17:56]:

Yes.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:17:56]:

That was emotional for you when you said that.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:17:59]:

It is. I get so anxious about it. Like I, I hate the idea of hiring people and having them rely on me and like not be able to provide it, you know?

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:18:09]:

Does that work for your own team as well? You feel that way about your own team as well?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:18:15]:

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:18:17]:

So how much are you the center of the universe? And I'm not talking about egotistical wise. Just when was your last vacation and how did you exit the business and how much work was done?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:18:31]:

So that has actually been great. I. Ever since maternity leave two years ago, my team, I was like, wow, I need to give them way more because they can handle this. They don't need me in it. And honestly it, it was a realization for me. So ever since then, like when I go on vacation, I mean barring one or two things pop up as is for everyone, I pretty much step out of the day to day and I don't have to worry about a thing, which is great.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:18:57]:

So why are you choosing to make that the issue now?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:19:00]:

Because I feel like the financial aspect of everything, that just feels like it all. I mean it does. It falls on me as the owner of the company. Right. So I think for me, like that's not, that's just something that I always just want to make sure everybody's good, everybody's covered. And like for me, like I'm not happy unless there's like A massive, massive surplus. So to eat into that is always really terrifying, which is obviously the biggest thing you do when you scale.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:30]:

Hey there, podcast listeners. It is no exaggeration to say that the work my companies and I have done with Brian and his team at Lushin have been absolutely game changing. I would not be where I am today without their experience and guidance. If you're struggling to grow your business, your profits, or grow your people, or maybe your business is growing, but it just isn't getting you personally to where.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:19:52]:

You want to be.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:53]:

You have got to schedule time. Give Brian one hour of your life, and I promise that you will see the way forward a little bit more clearly. If you're interested in scheduling, there's a link in Show Notes. I promise it will help.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:20:09]:

So there's a little bit of a repeat pattern for you. So you're doing so much of the right stuff. Even the mechanism that Tiffany picked up on, which was, I don't want to let people down, you actually are applying the fix, which is choose your customers wisely and be very selective with clients. But then every time you're faced with a risk situation, you kind of set all this stuff that you've done very well and built yourself structurally to not take the leap. So at some point, you're just going to have to take the leap and say, I'm going to do this. Now, there's. There's two ways to do it. You can proactively take the leap and say, you know what? I'm gonna go ahead and jump off the high dive and just see what I'm like.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:20:55]:

Or you can have a criminal behind you with a gun saying, jump off the high dive where I shoot you. Like, your back has to be against the wall. Which of those is more motivating? I need my back against the wall or I'm. I need to. Because you said, you referenced the cushion there, say, yeah, so what's it gonna take for you to just take the leap? I'm gonna do it.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:21:17]:

It's a good question. I don't know that I have the answer to that yet. I'm trying, honestly, what I'm trying my hardest to do in this situation is. Or I don't even want to say situation. Opportunity is channel. When I first started my business, because that was a massive risk and honestly, so out of character to do it to begin with. I stepped away from an awesome job at ims, and I think I'm trying to channel that energy that I had at 27 without a kid. But I think it Just feels a little bit more daunting at 33 with a team that relies on me, a child that relies on me, all of these things.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:21:54]:

And it's one of those things where, like, I know it's the next step, but I'm just, I'm trying to get myself willing to do it again, if that makes sense.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:22:03]:

Okay, so can I take you through an exercise on how to evaluate risk?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:22:08]:

Yes.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:22:08]:

All right, so. So pick a risk that would be your next risk that you would have to take. You said there was two phases. One I'd have to hire and the second would be I have to go find the business to justify the hires. Those are your two steps. So let's go with step one is I have to hire a person first, right?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:22:27]:

Yep.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:22:28]:

Okay, so let's say that you did, that you ended the call today, you put out the ad, and you hired somebody within the next two weeks. What's the worst thing, thing that could happen? The absolute worst thing that can happen with that decision?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:22:44]:

If I randomly lost a ton of business out of nowhere and I had to fire them. No, but okay, to me that's like my biggest fear.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:22:52]:

Okay, so let's say that that happened. You randomly lost a bunch of business all at the same time, and you had to let them go. Could you do that?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:23:01]:

I mean, I. I could do it. I would hate it, but I could do it.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:23:05]:

But you, but you could live with yourself, you could do that?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:23:07]:

Yes. Yes.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:23:09]:

So the way to evaluate risk is to decide whether the worst case scenario has an acceptable outcome. If the worst case scenario is acceptable, then it's worth taking the risk.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:23:20]:

That makes sense.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:23:21]:

Give yourself that mechanism of, if I lost a bunch of business, then I would have to lay this person, maybe other people. Could I do that? Yes. Could I protect my income? Yes. Okay, then I can do that. Take the risk. Yeah. Because what non risk takers don't do is they never do the analysis on what would I do? What's my plan B? They just see the looming risk and they go, that's a lot for me. And they never look at what it actually is to go, okay, let's do it.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:23:48]:

And you've been forced into those situations before. So to your point, go back to when you started the business. What was the thought of worst case scenario at the time you left IMS to do this? What was the worst case scenario at that time?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:24:05]:

My salary wasn't massive when I was leaving, so I was like, worst case, I lose that. I can make it up pretty easily and My husband was making more than enough to cover everything we needed. So I think at that time the risk didn't feel like, yes, it was risky, but it didn't feel so risky and that I couldn't go get another job and make it up pretty quickly.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:24:26]:

How does that compare to this risk of why I'd have to let that person go because I randomly lost a ton of business?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:24:32]:

Looking at it that way doesn't feel as risky because it wouldn't impact how I feed my family or how my current employee, you know what I'm saying? Like, it wouldn't impact day to day. It would be awful. I would hate doing it, but I could do it. I think looking at it that way makes it feel more granular as opposed to everything would go wrong and the whole business would go up in flames, which my brain. And just the way I work, sometimes it's black or white, it's everything's great or everything's on fire. So, like, I think it's. To your point, it's like a good idea to focus more on the individual steps as opposed to this large, looming kind of dragon of a creature that feels like I have to slay in order to get to the point that I'm hoping to get to.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:25:17]:

Yeah. The weird thing about people who perform is they always look through the lens of everything's on fire. You know, what, what if I die? What if this happened? Like, it's always extremes. And so without taking it to the non extreme and going, okay, what would really happen? Like, what would I really have to do? Okay, could I do that? Yes. Then all of a sudden the risk is biteable, then it's not such a big looming thing. And now you feel comfortable taking that step.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:25:47]:

Yeah, I think, I mean, I think that helps a lot because I mean that honestly, in every aspect of my life, it is the worst case scenario always. It's definitely a pattern. I would say.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:58]:

Is it fair to say too, Brian, that in this, like you've proven there's a market for the business as it exists today. It's a tale of all this time where some people say, hey, I'm going to take a chance and I'm going to expand into different markets or new products and.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:26:13]:

Right.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:13]:

The opportunity to contract back to the business that it is today that you've proven the market has a wait list for that. Unless something material changes in social media, this version of the business will like always be available to you.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:26:27]:

Yeah. Which is true.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:29]:

And so it's.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:26:30]:

Yeah.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:30]:

Like kind of step changes I think. And it's like testing into that next level and season and is part of it.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:26:38]:

And I guess that's a good idea too is like it, it doesn't have to be forever, whatever I choose. Like things can evolve and shift as they need to, which sometimes for me it feels like you make one decision and like that's how it is now. Like you can't go back or you can't move, you can't pivot. And the truth is I've pivoted a thousand times and I think everyone who owns a business has pivoted a thousand times to adjust to the market or whatever is needed.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:27:02]:

Do you know the value of a niche at least?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:27:05]:

I can tell you from my experience for our business, clients will often tell us that they haven't really found anyone else that does specifically what we do. Great. I think it's easier to be really great at something when you focus exclusively on it because all of our energy is focused on getting it right. Whereas if we were to focus on so many different areas, I don't think we would be the best at them.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:27:27]:

So what happens for us? Because you are able to perform in a way that's beneficial to clients, you become a go to company for that thing where they go, oh, you need social media. Go, go to them, go to them. And that becomes a referral and a lead stream and a pipeline and all those things. So you're always going to have this cycle of people are going to be waiting to work with you and you have to continue to build the structure and the team and everyone that can take that business because you do benefit from a lot of inbound. Hey, I want to work with you. I heard you're good at this and.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:28:06]:

I think that's honestly why we've grown so quickly over the past four or five years now. I think five. Like we are the people that once you kind of know us for that, like that's all of our clients are recommending people to us, which is I'm so thankful for and so grateful for their trust and like it's been really cool to be the people for that here and now, even outside of indie. But yeah, so that's why I honestly say no to people when they ask for other services or I refer them to the partners that we work with. But I guess in my mind I equated to scaling with having to fit that traditional larger agency model where you do everything. And that's scared me a little bit because I felt like I had to do that and I frankly don't really want to because I like to know that when we're delivering a service, we are good at it and it's what we are great at.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:28:55]:

Can I give you one more little kind of head rule? When you run into these dilemmas around risk to fool you. So you said you've changed your timeline a couple times. You said in the two to three years we've been this adjustment there, but my business has grown 4 to 5. Well, you're going back to zero because you grew very fast and then you got used to your capacity and so you stagnated at this sort of same level for a while by being selective, not adding stuff. So one of the mechanisms in your head to align with the purpose which you stated somewhat, these are my words, not yours, as, yeah, I want to be good, I want to make an impact and I want to continue to make bigger impacts. Every time you aren't scaling your business in order to adjust to the market that wants you, you're allowing one of your potential clients to work with somebody else who's not doing it to your level. Yeah. So instead of thinking, oh my gosh, I'm worried about risk, think there's somebody out there that I'm not capable of taking on that's not getting the impact that my clients are because I'm being slow, because I'm risk averse.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:30:09]:

And to use that as the mechanism of I'm actually harming others by not doing this, as opposed to the opportunity that you said is out in front of you because the opportunity will always be weighed against the cost which you're overweighting risk. Does that make sense?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:30:27]:

Yeah, that definitely makes sense. I think it's been interesting these past two years because I normally am like a very. Keep it growing, keep it moving. And like, for the first time, I would say, like, when I had my son Miles, I was like, maybe it's okay to like be for a minute and get used to this new normal. And like, I think I'm now finally at the point where I'm like, okay, like we can keep it moving a little bit more. We've got our new normal, we've got our cadence and like, kind of ready to get back to that, like, next phase of growth.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:30:55]:

I would say, but what if your new normal was just constant growth instead. Instead of.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:31:00]:

I would love, I would love that. I just, I think I was like, for those two years, like, I was just trying to figure out how to keep up with a, how to keep up with a baby and like, now it's. I feel like I've got a handle on that side of it. Well, I mean, I don't know. Now he's two and a half. So it's a great question if I've got a handle of it on the day to day or not. But I feel like we've got a good process for keeping up with him and also getting back to kind of my business. Normal, I would say.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:31:29]:

Yeah.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:31:30]:

One other thing, Brian, that might be worth. These are my paraphrase of something you taught me, but I'm hearing in Kenzie's narrative this idea of, like, look, I've got to be sure that the people who are delivering on the sales promise I'm making are as good as what you sort of know you can do or better than your people delivering. And some of the fear is coming in. I've got new clients and new people, and I don't know if I have the capacity to train and watch it all and make sure our reputation stays as airtight as it is right now. And I. I wrote down this paraphrase of, like, it's one thing to sort of be right, it's the other to have confidence in your ability to make it right. Because, like, when we were scaling and growing, I was in the sales process. Like, we totally can generate these leads.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:20]:

We can totally launch that website. We can totally do this campaign. Absolutely. You'll get $2 million worth of business from this trade show. It was like sometimes the team was not ready for some of those challenges and we were not right. But I had the ability as the ultimate decision maker. And I, like, was. I don't know, I was like, reasonable to make it right when we messed up, when our people weren't ready, when.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:45]:

And obviously you don't ever do that on purpose. Match your team to a challenge that they're going to fail at for sure.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:32:50]:

But it's gonna happen to realize, yeah.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:53]:

Some of it is in your ability, willingness to be able to make it right. So I don't know if I'm talking about this properly, but that's what I remember is being like, okay, here we go.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:33:02]:

Did you feel anxious in that process of moving from, like, you were doing it, or did you. Do you not feel anxiety? The way that I probably spiral with it.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:12]:

I am probably more comfortable with risk than you are. Probably together we would make better decisions. What are you nodding your head about, Brian?

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:33:21]:

So, Kenzie, here's. Here's what's a little bit different.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:23]:

Okay.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:33:24]:

Tiffany was going through the phase she just described her fix was I'll just go sell more clients.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:33:30]:

Yeah.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:33:31]:

So if my team fails, if my team doesn't perform, I'll just go get another client and we'll figure it out. But it was the, my team's gotta fail to learn and I know how to generate the revenue that replaces anything I'd lost. So different priority at the time she went through it than yours because she was not in the work. Her work was, I'm going to go sell the clients, I'm going to go bring it, I'm going to work on the big stuff. It was a little, it was a little bit different. That's why I'm. Yeah, I'm a little worried that your step two, which is go out and network, go out and get the business and all those things to like, you solve the risk side. Now it's okay.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:34:09]:

I've got to, I've got to increase the amount coming in so that I'm not so worried about the loss. Because what happens is then you hold way too tight operationally on things because you're not building a culture of small measurable failures so your team can learn faster. But you also have evidence that you did that with the two people that you said, I trust them with anything. So that's a good sign. But you still have to make the engine work.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:34:37]:

Yeah, I definitely have a lot of work to do myself as a person, personally and professionally to get away from the control of things. You know, it's definitely something that like I am a self proclaimed trying to be a recovering perfectionist in a lot of ways. And like, I think that that can be a really great thing for folks but I also think it can be a really terrible thing just depending on how it's functioning.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:35:04]:

Well, control, the control that you think you have is just an illusion for sure. Have control, you don't have control.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:35:11]:

I have no control. Yeah, it's fair. I really think that the value of looking at risk at a smaller level or at a more granular level for me is very eye opening because I really do have a tendency and have always had a tendency to look at the massive thing in front of me and think that it's this mountain that's impossible to climb. But in reality it's a series of steps to get there and they feel a lot less scary if you look at them as individual things as opposed to altogether. So I think that's really, really helpful for me because I have a tendency to focus on things that are too big to fix. All in One sitting.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:49]:

Awesome. Anything else you want to cover with Brian before we sign off?

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:35:53]:

I don't think so. I really appreciate your time. This is very helpful. My mind gets to be a crazy place sometimes, so thank you.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:36:01]:

Calm it down, do the next right thing. Awesome. Brian, anything you'd summarize, Kenzie, your problem isn't.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:36:08]:

It's not like you're weird or something's wrong. It's. It's actually a pretty normal phase to go in. It just changes you. You referenced it a couple times as your. Your business is always going to change in its complexity of the bigger things just being different problems. And the problems you had in year one are not the problems you're dealing with right now. So just be.

‍

Brian Kavicky [00:36:28]:

You use the phrase of, hey, it was good to have this new normal. Just look forward to. There's many new normals in front of you and I'm just going to go through it the way that I go that everybody else goes through it because you're not unique in this challenge of when to add, how to add, what to do, all that stuff.

‍

Kenzie Kittle [00:36:47]:

Thank you.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:36:49]:

Thanks, everybody for listening today. I think this for me has been a reminder that when we're on the edge of growth, the reality of what's in front of us and the picture that our mind can create can be really different things, even though they kind of want the same thing and just courage to be able to really look at what is the next decision that I make to test into this next new normal, as Brian said. And we have these imagined pressures of needing to provide and do we have another kid and wanting to be present for ourselves and for our families. And we get to choose the boundaries for each of those things in our lives. And I think Kenzie's done an amazing job of setting those up in her current new and look forward to seeing how she continues to grow as she goes forward. Thanks, everybody, for listening today. Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling fear.

‍

Tiffany Sauder [00:37:47]:

You will not decide what happens in my life. I will.

‍