Apr 17, 2025
Podcast
Marriage Year 20: Still Showing Up, Still Figuring It Out
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What does marriage look like after 20 years of life, kids, and building businesses together?
In this special anniversary episode of Scared Confident, Tiffany sits down with her husband, JR Sauder, for a real, unfiltered check-in on their marriage. They talk about the highs, the arguments, the learning curves—and how they keep choosing each other in the middle of it all.
Together, they unpack what’s working, what still needs work, and why they treat their marriage like something worth intentionally building—not just something that happens. From navigating communication breakdowns to carving out space for fun in a routine-heavy life, this episode is honest, funny, and full of wisdom from two people still figuring it out (on year 20).
They also share the “marriage check-in” framework they use each year—and how you can use it, too—to stay emotionally aligned, not just logistically in sync.
Key Takeaways:
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(00:57) Rating our marriage
(02:51) Describing our marriage in two words
(08:59) Improvements in our marriage over the past year
(14:46) Making progress on future goals
(23:23) Managing family communication
(24:05) Weekly meetings and date nights
(24:46) Supporting each other
(25:53) Balancing responsibilities
(28:11) Finding time for family
(30:02) Personal growth and self-reflection
(34:01) Slowing down to achieve more
(35:46) Learning about each other
(38:07) Advice for our kids
(41:19) Reflecting on our relationship
Link to download: Marriage Checkin
Link to last year’s podcast: Navigating 19 years of marriage with intentionality
Tiffany Sauder [00:00:00]:
I think this is a very common impasse for husbands and wife where it's like, I'm over here over performing a million tasks, and you're like, if you could just stop for one hot second and actually listen to me for like, one minute, that would be amazing.
JR Sauder [00:00:14]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:00:15]:
I'm a small town kid, born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor, and mentor. Seventeen years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy. And ever since, my husband JR and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep. That means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world. And I want that for you too. I'm Tiffany Sauder, and this is Scared Confident.
Tiffany Sauder [00:00:57]:
Okay, so the first question is, on a scale of 1 to 10, where would you put our marriage right now? 10 is the best ever.
JR Sauder [00:01:04]:
Yep.
Tiffany Sauder [00:01:05]:
Last year again, doesn't matter. I won't keep going back to last year's. An anchor, but we were fairly far apart.
JR Sauder [00:01:10]:
Yes, we were.
JR Sauder [00:01:11]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:01:12]:
So I think you talked me up last year too, on where we, like, where we ended up.
Tiffany Sauder [00:01:16]:
You felt disconnected from the family because you were traveling a lot.
JR Sauder [00:01:19]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:01:20]:
And I was like, yo, I'm here. I'm good.
JR Sauder [00:01:22]:
Yeah, that's right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:01:24]:
So, okay, what did you say, scale of 1 to 10, where would you put our marriage right now?
JR Sauder [00:01:28]:
Okay, so I. I said a six again, which is what the. Is what I said last year. But I have, like, I wanted to think through it and not have, like, too much recency bias of, like, all the things that have been going on, like, just in life generally lately that, like, then come in and impact relationships. So I would say I said a six. I don't know if that. If I'm still waiting, like, too much of, like, what the last maybe a month and a half has been more for me personally, but clearly there have been highs. You know, on average, it could be a little bit higher than that if I think through the total year.
JR Sauder [00:02:07]:
But, like, that's. That was the first number I thought of. So I want to say what that is out out loud.
Tiffany Sauder [00:02:14]:
Well, per our relationship, my number is higher than 6. Higher than 6. And I have it at 8, which I think is maybe what I said last year too. Or nine.
JR Sauder [00:02:25]:
I think you had nine last year.
Tiffany Sauder [00:02:26]:
Yeah. So I would say an eight. So we're a couple points apart, which I don't know if that's good or bad.
JR Sauder [00:02:35]:
Yeah, I would. It's probably what I would have guessed, actually, based on.
JR Sauder [00:02:40]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:02:41]:
Last year, what we discussed and maybe the last few months each of our own experiences.
Tiffany Sauder [00:02:47]:
Yeah. Okay, well, we'll dig into that maybe.
JR Sauder [00:02:50]:
Okay.
Tiffany Sauder [00:02:51]:
So number. The second question is, what are two words that summarize how our marriage feels to you right now?
JR Sauder [00:02:57]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:02:58]:
Okay, so this is. I know this two words, but this is my first word of the two words. So my first word was relay race. And that. It feels a lot like passing a baton right now. And Tiffany and I were both very excited to have a driver in like, literally three weeks from today, I think. But it is. We're driving all over the place, shuttling people, so just constantly moving.
JR Sauder [00:03:28]:
And sometimes I thought relay race was appropriate because it can be like the same circle that we are driving a lot and we're tagging each other in and out.
Tiffany Sauder [00:03:39]:
Is that both of your words or that's one. That's your first word?
JR Sauder [00:03:42]:
That's my first word.
Tiffany Sauder [00:03:43]:
Really? Rice?
JR Sauder [00:03:43]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:03:44]:
The other word I had was just full. And I was thinking through maybe the different silos of life that we are involved in. And they just. Almost all those buckets to me feel like full to the brim or close to that. That's where I was going with that one.
Tiffany Sauder [00:04:03]:
Do you think there's a way to do this season of life, those two themes, are they a condition of our choices or are they. Are there ways that we can do our life in this season where those aren't present?
JR Sauder [00:04:18]:
Yeah, I thought about that, especially as we get down to the question around, like, advice you would give to your kids at this stage of life. And certainly some of it is just choice. It's like how we've chosen to live and that is going to be a part of it. Another piece I think is just there have been events that have happened in work life for both of us and then kids involvement, certain things and like their specific ages that it just. It just eats up hours and eats up time that I don't think is going to stay that way forever. I'm sure it won't. But right now that is like, that is our reality.
Tiffany Sauder [00:05:05]:
I think part of what I'm asking is, and I can go to my words, but is like, I'm not saying you think those are necessarily critical things, but if that environment of being a relay race and full.
JR Sauder [00:05:17]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:05:18]:
If those are conditions of our choices and those are part of the thing that maybe impact the six is that just like, that has to Be a fact of our life right now? Or is there a way that it is an eight or a nine? Because those words. Because the way that our marriage feels is different. Does what I'm asking make sense? It feels like, is this a conditional triangle where it's like, if these are your choices, then that means environmental and then that means that gives you a six. Or is it. Can it be different?
JR Sauder [00:05:51]:
Yeah, it can totally be different.
JR Sauder [00:05:52]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:05:53]:
It doesn't have to be a six because of the.
Tiffany Sauder [00:05:55]:
The relay race and the fold.
JR Sauder [00:05:57]:
Yeah. Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:05:57]:
Okay, so I. The two words that I would summarize how our marriage feels is I put, like, mature. And what I put as like, my, like, summary is like, I feel like we're getting to the place where we're realizing many of our early marriage, like, goals. Like, I remember, you know, five years married, us being like, you know, imagining what our family was gonna look like and imagining the house we were gonna live in, imagining the impact our careers were gonna have, and, like, just imagining the future. And I'm very aware that I think we're in some of that right now.
JR Sauder [00:06:32]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:06:33]:
The payoff of those choices, the. I don't know, just the realization of 10, 15 years of intention. I feel like we're in that, like, I feel like we're starting to not just plant, but harvest some of those things. So that's why that sort of maturity of. I haven't lived this part of my life yet, but, man, I feel like I had a vivid picture of the dreams for it. And I feel like we're. We're in that. And then the other word I put was just like, partnership, which I think your relay race, it's probably even a more vivid description of that.
Tiffany Sauder [00:07:09]:
It's like kind of nothing doesn't happen without a well coordinated thing. And so it's just like. It feels like it's a. It's like a partnership on who's running, who's going, who's eating, who's staying, who's, who's. Who's doing the things, and we even have a lot of help. But that's what I would say is like partnership in that way.
JR Sauder [00:07:30]:
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good. That's a good word.
Tiffany Sauder [00:07:34]:
I think about our family sometimes as like a six person business, you know, that has, like, operating expenses and income and things that have to be maintained. And it's like, I do feel like sometimes we're just like, we're operators of that.
JR Sauder [00:07:49]:
No, it is business partners in it.
JR Sauder [00:07:50]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:07:51]:
And I would say that can be part of how, you know, you and I get off a little bit each other is that we treat it too much like a business.
Tiffany Sauder [00:07:58]:
Totally.
JR Sauder [00:07:59]:
And then, you know, in our businesses, like, I'm probably a little bit better or worse, depending on how you look at it, of becoming like emotionally detached right from the business. Like this is the best strategic decision or this is the most practical decision versus like thinking through all aspects of like, what is the, like what is the best decision. So yeah, I'll, I'll leave it at that. But I think that's, you know, that's, that's right. We do think about it as, as a six person business.
Tiffany Sauder [00:08:31]:
It was just super cool. Would you say we're saying the same things on that?
JR Sauder [00:08:41]:
Yeah, I would say the full versus mature. There's probably some differences there of kind of how you were thinking about mature versus how I was thinking about full. There's threads or lines that are similar in the words.
Tiffany Sauder [00:08:58]:
Okay, question number three. Our marriage has gotten better in the following ways in the past year.
JR Sauder [00:09:02]:
I feel like defining priorities has gotten better. I think we've been more clear in what our, like what the priorities are for our family. And I know you talk to your audience about like the family meeting and what that's been and you know, encourage, encourage that practice. You know, I would echo that as a participant in the, in the family meetings. I think it helps set an expectation for your, for your kids and then they kind of know what to expect, which has proven valuable for them as well. But then I think hearing us talk about the priorities for a week, a month, or even as we look out for certain events further than that is just. Has been helpful. I think that that aspect has, has gotten better over the past year.
Tiffany Sauder [00:09:51]:
I think you've always been good at that. Like you're just better at looking ahead than I am. I feel like I've learned that from you of like, you would naturally be like, oh, it's, it's like late summer of 2025. We should start thinking about what we want our vacations to look like for 2026. Like my brain would never naturally ask that question. I have to put it in like a system of like, okay, this is the time of year where we get intentional about where what's are we going to do? Spring break and fall break? Are you and I are going to go in the summer or in the fall? Because deciding all of that matters and things like care and coverage. I just feel like you're better at looking ahead and I think we've gotten better that as a family. And I have put infrastructure in place that helps me do that, like with you, instead of you feeling like you're doing it all alone.
JR Sauder [00:10:40]:
Yeah, that's.
Tiffany Sauder [00:10:41]:
Is that fair?
JR Sauder [00:10:42]:
It's probably more natural. But just because I would be better at it, I would say I'm not the best at always vocalizing it to the group I might be thinking about it. Doesn't always mean I say it.
Tiffany Sauder [00:10:54]:
Wow.
JR Sauder [00:10:55]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:10:56]:
I'm sorry. Say that again.
JR Sauder [00:10:58]:
Just because I think something doesn't mean I say something out loud. And that can be both a good and bad thing.
Tiffany Sauder [00:11:05]:
Generally, that is the crux of everything that begins eroding between us. Okay. Do you have a second one?
JR Sauder [00:11:17]:
It's fine. Yeah, no, that was.
Tiffany Sauder [00:11:19]:
What? I. I have two. I put. Our marriage has gotten better in the fall. I just said I'm proud of our commitment to time away together, like, on a more frequent basis of just connecting. And our date nights, I feel like, have been fun. And then I. This, again, is probably more like the business of our relationship, which is where we thrive and we can struggle on the other side.
Tiffany Sauder [00:11:44]:
But I put, like. I just think we help each other more with, like, more detailed things. Like, when I'm working through, like, a negotiation, I'll be like, can you, like, literally help me practice these words? And like, when you're working through comms and stuff like that for the company, I'll be like, can I just help you write that? I just feel like that I like, I think being trusted in the details with some of that with you and experiencing, like, your zone of genius in your business, like, in my own, like, little world. And I like. I like engaging that way. So, yeah, I think we've always done it at high level.
JR Sauder [00:12:19]:
But yeah, I think understanding the ask, like, when you ask somebody to do something that they're really good at, it's usually not a work or a lift for them. So I think we are much better at just saying, hey, you're really good at this. Like, can you take this part or would you read this really quick? And does that make sense or what else needs to be added? So I think that's right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:12:44]:
I think it has taken me longer to, like, trust you with some of that stuff because you are a discerner, which can sometimes feel like criticism to me. Sometimes I. I'm, like, looking for your approval. And you're like, hey, what about. And I'm like, he doesn't love it. Why don't you love it? You don't think I'M smart. Like, it just spirals for me. Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:13:10]:
We know. Like, I know. I know this. And I feel like as I've gotten older, I'm able to, like, I think I'm getting better at, like, hearing your discernment and being like, okay, yeah, I totally could have thought about that differently.
JR Sauder [00:13:24]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:13:24]:
Am I getting better at it? I feel like I am.
JR Sauder [00:13:26]:
Well, I think the part that's getting better is. Just because I ask you a question doesn't mean that you have to have the answer. Right. That I'm just thinking through what possible questions could be. And again, that's kind of how I think is. Let's look at the different angles and throw out questions. And did you think about this? Or maybe a different. A slightly different approach.
JR Sauder [00:13:51]:
And, like, you want to, like, land the plane on the first. On the first try?
Tiffany Sauder [00:13:55]:
Well, I also want, like, the preamble to be like, 45 seconds of compliments. Like, wow, babe, you have already thought through this so well. This is a really interesting problem that you've brought to me. Like, I'm loving the direction this is going.
JR Sauder [00:14:08]:
Yep.
Tiffany Sauder [00:14:09]:
This is what I.
JR Sauder [00:14:10]:
And my. My preambles by 40. 40 seconds, usually not 45.
Tiffany Sauder [00:14:15]:
There's literally none. There's no preamble. There is no affirmation of my ideas. But then I. I am. I'm working through it.
JR Sauder [00:14:29]:
And. Yeah, no, I got words of affirmation.
Tiffany Sauder [00:14:33]:
I have lots of needs for them. And it's. It's not your natural love language.
JR Sauder [00:14:39]:
It's not.
Tiffany Sauder [00:14:41]:
So. Okay, well, that's where our marriage have gone. But we're three and. Okay, number four. I hope we continue to make progress in these ways.
JR Sauder [00:14:49]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:14:50]:
So I talked about the ways it's gotten better on just defining priorities and the family meeting. The area where I said, I hope we keep making progress is still in communicating and just communicating earlier. I think when you're busy, like. Like, areas of your life can just feel rushed. So the earlier you can communicate. And I'm saying for myself as well, like, the earlier I can communicate with you, the less rushed you feel. And, I mean, I'm thinking of, like, a few weeks ago, there was a potential volleyball deal, and it was last minute, and that broke down all the systems that you had set up in place. And now, you know, that doesn't work.
JR Sauder [00:15:39]:
That's bad. So communicating earlier, and that's a very. Like, we can work through a volleyball practice. That's not a big deal. But just if I take that concept and apply it to other areas of our marriage, it always goes better when there's communication earlier than letting something build.
Tiffany Sauder [00:16:00]:
So I hope we continue to make progress in the areas of communicating sooner.
JR Sauder [00:16:05]:
Correct.
Tiffany Sauder [00:16:07]:
So I, I, because this is the area where I feel like if we're really thoughtful, we can have some really explicit, like, new agreements of like, okay, this is practically how we're going to get better in the coming year, like we did last year. It's like, I have something I can go do. I'm very action oriented. It's like, yeah, I love this concept of how do we communicate sooner? How do we dig into that? I'll share mine and then I don't know, maybe there's a way to relate these. Mine was, I hope we continue to. I have a lot of routine in my life. I have programmed our, our family to be in like a no surprise business because there's a lot going on. And I just put like, continuing to have a sense of like, adventure and exploration.
Tiffany Sauder [00:16:51]:
I think there can be a lot of just like, routine in this season of life. It's like kids are kind of doing the same things you're, yes. You're like, around the school calendar. You know, you've got the same job. There's just like, not a ton of change. There is, but there isn't. In like the season of life, you're not adding new kids, moving new houses, getting a new job, moving to a new town. Like, it's like there's a lot of routine.
Tiffany Sauder [00:17:14]:
And so how do we continue to have just a sense of adventure and like, exploration and our relationship and the things we're doing together and. Because I need that like, sense of surprise and adventure.
JR Sauder [00:17:26]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:17:27]:
So I had a couple, I had a couple thoughts there. Well, the first one is like, the routine side of it. I'm probably seeking routine more because in the last year we've purchased two businesses and it's been chaotic and learning a lot of new things. Like, there hasn't been great routine. I would say for me on the work side, just as we are making a lot of, a lot of changes and yeah, adding new business units. While you are seeking, like, adventure, I'm seeking something different because I'm getting all the adventures that I could possibly want into my inbox. And then the other item I had was, or thought I had was as you were thinking through your list of like, routine and prescriptive, I was gonna ask, like, where the HOA fit on your routine, if we could get the HOA out there, items that you were gonna take off.
Tiffany Sauder [00:18:35]:
Share with listeners what the jab is about.
JR Sauder [00:18:38]:
This is. This is something where I kind of already know how this story is gonna play out when it's done. Tiffany volunteered us to take over the HOA, which was the right decision. Like, we needed. This needed to happen. There needed to be a transition so that we could spread it out amongst multiple families. And I told my reservations around. I think I know how this is going to go, and I don't have time for the HOA at this second.
JR Sauder [00:19:10]:
And now I'm an HOA board member with two other family members from other families in our neighborhood. And you're not as involved in the HOA, I would say.
Tiffany Sauder [00:19:21]:
Yeah, I think that's right. I definitely, at some level, signed you up for a job. There's, like, a lot of governance things that had to be put in place, and that's, like, not what I'm good at.
JR Sauder [00:19:31]:
Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:19:31]:
So, yes, it was a tag team, but it was like 75% you, 25% me.
JR Sauder [00:19:38]:
Yeah, no, I'm just. I was just thinking through, like, the. Again, the routine, and I think aspects of, like, why I chose the words full and, like, what kind of what went into that. And I think that that's an example to me of, like, even when there seemly could be some space that gets filled with. It's getting filled with something right now, and that's what I want to try to get. I'm trying to get away from that.
Tiffany Sauder [00:20:04]:
Hey, it's Tiffany.
Tiffany Sauder [00:20:06]:
If you've been listening to the show.
Tiffany Sauder [00:20:07]:
For a while and find yourself thinking, I. I just wish there was more good news. You can sign up for my newsletter.
Tiffany Sauder [00:20:13]:
It's filled with my favorite products, recipes.
Tiffany Sauder [00:20:15]:
Tips, stories to help encourage you as you build your life of. And the link is waiting for you in show notes. See you there. I don't know how much we want to talk about this, but, like, two weeks ago was. We probably would have picked like, a two on where our marriage was at. Like, we were both pretty frustrated with where we were and how it felt. Is that fair?
JR Sauder [00:20:38]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:20:39]:
And so I think at the core of it was kind of this communication piece. Is that fair?
JR Sauder [00:20:48]:
Yeah, I think so.
Tiffany Sauder [00:20:51]:
Is that what. How would you summarize it?
JR Sauder [00:20:54]:
No, I. I think communication is. Is very fair. I. I think from your side.
JR Sauder [00:21:04]:
You.
JR Sauder [00:21:04]:
Were not feeling seen, which is a form of communication, and I was not feeling heard, so.
Tiffany Sauder [00:21:13]:
That's right. I think the core of it is this, like, communicating sooner. So I'm asking us, like, that's the thing that erodes. Like, if you were to Go do like a. I don't know, medical things, but like a heartbeat monitor. And it's like, what. What are all the valleys? This is like, the core of that.
JR Sauder [00:21:34]:
Yes.
Tiffany Sauder [00:21:35]:
It's probably the root cause of every time we get below a five. It's something to do with this.
JR Sauder [00:21:41]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:21:42]:
So I'm asking us as like, two intelligent people who solve lots of hard problems for a living. Like, what is. What is a thing we can try? How do we, like, make this communication thing, like, more something that's explicit. Like, we're going to try this for six weeks and see if this works. I don't know. I've got like.
JR Sauder [00:22:07]:
Well, I thought. I mean, going through this exercise and saying where you are on a scale 1 to 10, like, weekly, probably helps drive that conversation.
Tiffany Sauder [00:22:15]:
Yeah, that's a good idea. So then we can have a true average. Yeah. Are we doing median or mean here?
JR Sauder [00:22:21]:
Track it in Excel. I'm sure listeners will be impressed.
JR Sauder [00:22:25]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:22:26]:
Can't wait to see that next year.
Tiffany Sauder [00:22:30]:
Okay. That's an explicit thing we could do. Ask this question weekly. I'm going just, like, come up with four or five ideas.
JR Sauder [00:22:36]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:22:37]:
One idea.
JR Sauder [00:22:38]:
Yep.
JR Sauder [00:22:40]:
Do I get the next idea, too?
Tiffany Sauder [00:22:42]:
No, I am.
JR Sauder [00:22:43]:
Okay.
JR Sauder [00:22:43]:
You got another one?
Tiffany Sauder [00:22:45]:
Well, I think one. We could go through this, like, two or three of these questions at our monthly dates.
JR Sauder [00:22:52]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:22:53]:
Well, one of the things I talked about with you was we can use that time right. When everybody gets home as like, hey, how was your day? And let's catch up. And it's like, it is the most distracted hour and a half for me.
JR Sauder [00:23:04]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:23:05]:
Because the girls are all getting home. I've got to leave in two minutes from practice. Pick up. I'm making the third round of dinner. Just like a really. Ivy's like, can I read my thing to you? Can you sign this paper? Can I tell you about sea turtles?
JR Sauder [00:23:22]:
Yes. That's where my head went to when you said, it's chaotic. I went to one member of our family who just has to get a lot of words out, who we learned.
Tiffany Sauder [00:23:30]:
Is like a 90% verbal processor. Anyway, very helpful. Anyway, she has a lot of words to say yes to me. It feels like in particular. So I was like, what if we would move our. Hey, how was your day? Time to like 9 to 9:15. It's like the girls are in bed or like, that was where we talk to each other instead of trying to do it in kind of the mix of all the things. Because I think you start to feel like I'm not paying attention.
Tiffany Sauder [00:23:58]:
Which I'm not. That's actually true. And I just feel like I'm paying. Playing ping pong with like eight balls in one pedal.
JR Sauder [00:24:05]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:24:05]:
I think attaching stuff more to the weekly meetings is a daily is just not going to fly because there's, there's, there's no normal. So I like the idea of attaching.
Tiffany Sauder [00:24:16]:
It to the weekly meeting.
JR Sauder [00:24:17]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:24:19]:
Because at least that happens 48 out of 52 weeks in the year.
Tiffany Sauder [00:24:25]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:24:26]:
Same thought process, I think, with your, like attaching it to the date night.
Tiffany Sauder [00:24:29]:
Like, yeah.
JR Sauder [00:24:30]:
Those are just being more prescriptive. I think in both those events. Extending them by five minutes or just adding an agenda, like a true agenda of like, hey, we're going to talk to the. Or talk about this.
Tiffany Sauder [00:24:46]:
I know. Well, I always like the question of, like, how can I support you in this coming week?
JR Sauder [00:24:51]:
Yep.
Tiffany Sauder [00:24:51]:
And I think the answer oftentimes is something very practical from the girls. Like, can you have food made for me before I leave for practice? That is something hot. But I think from you, because that's where I'm like, I will be a willing participant in whatever you need. I just need to know. And I don't always have the decoder ring because I can't see everything that's happening once you leave the garage. And while I have gone through a lot of the things that you're leading through, I. You don't remember it as much as when you're in it. Like, and what you need might not have been what I needed.
Tiffany Sauder [00:25:36]:
So being able to be like, I. I know it's a lot of times, like, I need you to listen and I need you to be present. And I am over here being very heroic in my task completion.
JR Sauder [00:25:52]:
Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:25:53]:
And I think this is a very common impasse for like husbands and wife where it's like, I'm over here overperforming a million tasks and you're like, if you could just stop for one hot second and actually listen to me for like one minute, that would be amazing.
JR Sauder [00:26:09]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:26:11]:
And I'm like, yeah. And if you would help with anything, then I might have time for that. Like, it becomes this like, narrative in our heads that we don't say to each other. But that's like, when we get unhealthy, that's what starts to happen as we get in these camps. But when we're help, when we're healthy, you'll like, you'll notice and do things like, you don't. You'll just like, pick up, like, yeah, whatever. Take the trash out. Or it's just like becomes this natural way of operating together.
Tiffany Sauder [00:26:39]:
But when we're not in sync, I see you doing nothing, which is probably not true. And you see me listening never, which is probably not true. But it's less than when we're healthy. Does that make sense? Yeah, but it's what our mind is counting and so it's what we see more acutely.
JR Sauder [00:26:57]:
Yeah, definitely.
Tiffany Sauder [00:26:59]:
Okay, so let's make an agreement. What do we. What sounds like the best thing to do here.
JR Sauder [00:27:04]:
Yeah, I think we can. We can just try a couple of those. I don't know that we have to say what's the best. Like to see which one, which one works. Like if it's the one to 10 at the weekly meeting, if that works well. Or just attaching certain questions to a date night.
Tiffany Sauder [00:27:21]:
So I'm gonna take this as like a to do for me because I'm very like is like start attaching this to the weekly meeting. And I think on our date nights we are good about kind of having some like, business items we need to go through. It sounds so stupid, but there's a lot of things going on in our family. If we don't get aligned, then we just end up on islands. So I'm going to do that. I'm going to attach it to the weekly meeting where you and I spend 20 to 30 minutes before or after it, walking through some of these things, looking at the week as far as like, how do we support each other, what's coming, what from the last week, did I feel you show up well, for me and where did I feel like I wanted you to show up for me and you didn't. Those could be really helpful questions.
JR Sauder [00:28:07]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:28:07]:
Okay, do that.
JR Sauder [00:28:08]:
Okay.
Tiffany Sauder [00:28:09]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:28:09]:
Deal.
Tiffany Sauder [00:28:10]:
Okay, great. What about the sense of adventure and exploration? Because you're right, those are very different. We're on different places with that.
JR Sauder [00:28:17]:
Yeah, I. I think I just need to be aware of it. Like you making aware of me aware of it. I don't know that you'd use those words with me before, so I now I've heard them.
Tiffany Sauder [00:28:26]:
Okay.
JR Sauder [00:28:27]:
Think through what the best path forward is there. But I think you talk on the podcast sometimes about even Friday nights. I don't love having things planned because a lot of times I'm just like, I just want to crash. Like the best thing for me sounds like going to bed at like 8:45, not super exciting, but that's like, then the weekend, I'm like, okay, I can be productive, like whatever needs to get done. I Can get done. But yeah, at the end of the week, I'm just dead.
Tiffany Sauder [00:28:53]:
Would you say, by and large, we have, like, culturally gotten to the place where our family respects that the Friday night is pretty quiet.
JR Sauder [00:29:00]:
Great. I. I think so. I know it's, you know, your natural inclination is to say yes and mine is maybe more no still, but I. I do feel like you. You check or ask now before just saying yes, like, specifically on Fridays because you're like, hey, let me, like, I just need to think through what the week was, and it can be.
Tiffany Sauder [00:29:19]:
Yeah, I would. I mean, I would, like, need to check the calendar. I would say, like, one in 15 or 20 weekends. Do we have something on a Friday night? It feels very rare. Like, we've. I think we've called. I don't. I'm not annoyed by that.
Tiffany Sauder [00:29:31]:
Yeah, that's just, like. Was very helpful to learn that. That was really a, like, heart. Like, that's so helpful.
JR Sauder [00:29:36]:
Right?
JR Sauder [00:29:36]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:29:37]:
And I think it's us learning, too, with the girls, the older two, specifically, like, Friday nights for high schoolers, like, in the fall, especially when they can't drive. Like, they. They want to be places and, you know, being able to kind of help them.
Tiffany Sauder [00:29:53]:
Yeah. Be with them. Totally fun. Okay, three more questions. One thing I feel like I've learned about myself this year is. You want me to go first?
JR Sauder [00:30:01]:
Sure.
Tiffany Sauder [00:30:02]:
I have known pretty much this whole, like, last 12 months that this transition out of the CEO role at Element Three and into this founder role and kind of determining to launch off into this, like, startup environment again into inside of the life of. And, like, I've known that was coming. And so there's this, like, uncoupling of my ego, my sense of competence. Like, I, like, knew what I was doing when I was in a room. It was an important one.
JR Sauder [00:30:30]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:30:31]:
You know, there's, like, a lot of things. I knew all the information first. Like, it's just things that come with having been in that role for a long time and playing a certain role culturally and being in charge and leading, and I love all those things. And so then when suddenly it's like this slowly, all of a sudden, like, the light is. The light switch is turned off, and you are not in that role anymore. And you need to create space for other people to lead. It's weird. And so I wrote, I have learned that my confidence in my competence has to come from inside of me.
Tiffany Sauder [00:31:05]:
And so I have been just, like, really practicing that narrative and not wanting to put that on you, knowing that, like, external Gratification and you verbally affirming me is not that you never do it. You do sometimes, but it's not like on the daily, just being like, I have to fill that cup on my own, and I need to not walk around with this, like, empty vessel and ask everybody around me to fill all the time. And sometimes that means me saying out loud to myself, like, wow, I feel like I really crushed that. Like, I'm really proud of the way that I showed up. Like, I just have to say that to myself.
JR Sauder [00:31:37]:
Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:31:38]:
And get to the place where I am comfortable with that being okay for me. I don't need other people to tell me that that's dumb or good. I just need to say my confidence and my own competence has to come from inside of me. And I think in some ways, a new frontier for me.
JR Sauder [00:31:54]:
Yeah, I. I think that is right. And I. I can. I know that you are saying things out out loud. More like recognition of accomplishments or achievements that have happened. And again, part of it is. I think it's new.
JR Sauder [00:32:13]:
Like, said, you're in a new chapter. And okay. Like, there's progress and recognizing that or creating some sort of marker around that. And I. I know that I've never been accused of, like, being overly effusive in my praise, like in, you know, in the area.
Tiffany Sauder [00:32:29]:
In all 44 years of life on Earth. On planet Earth.
JR Sauder [00:32:34]:
So I think needing. Are you. You discovering that? I've seen that play out just around the house and in other areas, too.
Tiffany Sauder [00:32:46]:
Yeah. I think I used to wait for. I learned this, like, so long ago. Somebody said to me, we all want to witness to our lives, to our key events. And for me, it's like, my successes and my failures. I want, like, people to see all of it, actually.
JR Sauder [00:33:01]:
Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:33:02]:
And when you're working with a very small team and all those kinds of things, I just have had to learn. I have to say it out loud. And if I'm like, oh, my word, I did so good at that, that's okay. I can say that.
JR Sauder [00:33:11]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:33:12]:
Yeah, I know. Hey, that's what Sam's. Sam is here for. High fives.
Tiffany Sauder [00:33:16]:
Sam is also kind of underwhelming in the verbal affirmation department. She's listening in. I pick two very raw people for that. I'm like, that was so good of me. And she's like, being away getting things done. Getting things done. I have all these high Cs around me that do get a lot of stuff done, but they are light on the compliment department. So if all of my listeners can just.
Tiffany Sauder [00:33:41]:
Yeah, Sam's husband and I can commiserate. Yeah, it's true.
JR Sauder [00:33:46]:
Need all the likes and subscribe, you know? Is that what you say I need?
Tiffany Sauder [00:33:50]:
Yeah, I need them to take care of my ego, but I'm just. I'm on a journey and I'm aware of it and.
JR Sauder [00:33:58]:
Yeah, yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:33:59]:
So what have you learned about yourself this year?
JR Sauder [00:34:01]:
So I've said this year, I said, sometimes slowing down allows you to accomplish more, and I have to remind myself of that. I've found myself saying that, like, even out loud to myself as I've gone through the year. There have just been multiple events throughout the year that the pace has just been chaotic. And you can get to a point where you're questioning yourself like, we had a crazy amount of growth in the year, and you're questioning like, okay, is this speed so fast that I have, like, completely lost control and I don't know where this is going? And we keep adding more and more here, so I would just find myself, like, slowing down and not trying to solve every puzzle at the exact same time, but, like, let's think through this one, complete it, and then go to the next one and just kind of prioritizing which place to go versus again, just putting out. Putting out fires or making decisions as fast as possible to keep things moving. I've just found myself, like, no, I'll actually not have to come back and revisit the fire if I take time to, like, think through it and. And make a decision that only need to be made one time and. And keep going.
JR Sauder [00:35:17]:
So it's easier just to, like, shoot the email off or shoot a text off. That's one sentence. And it gets somebody you know out of your hair. And you can even do it with your kids when they're asking you for things and you're just deferring a conversation that's going to happen later that may look different.
Tiffany Sauder [00:35:37]:
Say the quote again.
JR Sauder [00:35:38]:
So sometimes slowing down allows you to accomplish more.
Tiffany Sauder [00:35:42]:
There's a lot of wisdom in that for sure. Okay, two more questions. One thing I feel like I've better learned about my spouse this year.
JR Sauder [00:35:50]:
Okay, I'll. I'll go first. I was reminded.
Tiffany Sauder [00:35:55]:
Don't have any words on your verse.
JR Sauder [00:35:57]:
Yeah, it's more an idea. Just your determination to succeed. Like, I think I've known about it and have seen it in other areas of life, but as you get back into, like, startup mode, I think just, like, the grittiness that you have and just your determination comes out. And so Maybe more to be reminded of it this year is something I would attach to, like, the last year of our marriage would. Would be just your overall determination of, like, okay, now I'm doing this. Like, I'm gonna keep working at it or going and not taking no's or, you know, people giving you suggestions that you may try, but you're like, I'm gonna trust my gut. And I think that served you well overall.
Tiffany Sauder [00:36:51]:
Thank you. I put one thing I've better learned about my spouse this year. I said this a little bit earlier, but you don't need me to do more. You need me to be more present and still and listen authentically. I think in this last trip around the merry go round together, I was like, when I'm getting into this, like, martyr mode, it's like, the last thing I need to be doing is more tasks to prove how busy I am. I just literally need to stop all of it.
JR Sauder [00:37:17]:
Because I don't think you've ever heard me say to you, like, you don't do enough. Like, I've never said that.
Tiffany Sauder [00:37:22]:
No. You did get uncommonly annoyed about there not being toilet paper in the bathroom.
JR Sauder [00:37:32]:
Oh, yeah. Because I just.
Tiffany Sauder [00:37:33]:
Weeks ago.
JR Sauder [00:37:33]:
Because I just restocked it.
Tiffany Sauder [00:37:34]:
I was like, I think you were just generally so done with incompetence. Like, you were just really frustrated with everything around you.
JR Sauder [00:37:43]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:37:43]:
That this was not about.
JR Sauder [00:37:45]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:37:45]:
Oh, yeah. And that was. That wasn't about you either. The girls are like, you know, taking it.
Tiffany Sauder [00:37:49]:
There are so many people in our house.
JR Sauder [00:37:52]:
Yeah, that is. That is true. But I'm like, you know, it was.
Tiffany Sauder [00:37:56]:
Just very uncharacteristic of you.
JR Sauder [00:37:58]:
It is.
JR Sauder [00:37:58]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:37:58]:
It was a very uncharacteristic thing. It was an outlier.
JR Sauder [00:38:02]:
Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:38:03]:
Very uncharacteristic. Okay, last question. Advice I will definitely give my kids at this stage of their life is.
JR Sauder [00:38:12]:
I wrote down just being aware of your commitments. Like, saying no is important. And that can be you. And I make choices around the kids. Fundraisers about, okay, hey, volunteer for this, do this, do that, sell this. On the surface, like, each one is great. When you have four kids and they each have a few activities, all of a sudden you've got a lot of requests for time, money. Just thinking through, what is that, like, 12 fundraisers, maybe per year? If we were going to count them.
Tiffany Sauder [00:38:46]:
All out, just sound bite is make enough money that you can just pay the check for the donation.
JR Sauder [00:38:50]:
For some of them, I mean, others, it's like, can you know, what can they do? Or how can you partner with them to be around it. But just being aware of, like, okay, yep, we can sell however many things like just being creative around that. So I think that's more. There are going to be lots of asks at this stage of your life. There are just lots of asks. Whether that comes from your kids or that comes from the school employees. Again, people are managers of teams like, that. Different.
JR Sauder [00:39:18]:
All those different things like coaching. There's a lot of asks. So just being very real with yourself and your spouse of like, okay, this is. Got to estimate the total time commitment of each of these asks. And a lot of them can look small. But I think that's why I was joking about the HOA earlier, because it was seemingly like, there's not that many houses. Like, it's not. There's not that much to do.
JR Sauder [00:39:43]:
Like, I don't want to think about the number of hours that I've had to spend to set some of this stuff up and opening a bank account for.
Tiffany Sauder [00:39:51]:
I did that. Oh, no, you had to go.
JR Sauder [00:39:53]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:39:53]:
In person.
JR Sauder [00:39:53]:
Yeah, we both did. That's what I mean.
Tiffany Sauder [00:39:55]:
Like, yeah, no, it was crazy. It was. It was much bigger. It had to happen.
JR Sauder [00:39:58]:
Yeah.
Tiffany Sauder [00:39:59]:
It had to happen. It was, like, 10 years too late, but there was. And there was never going to be a good time. And also, it was much bigger than I thought.
JR Sauder [00:40:08]:
Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:40:09]:
All of that is true. Also, our neighbors who don't listen to this. We love you, we're so grateful. Okay. Advice I said I will definitely give my kids at this stage of their life. You will always be busy, but put time on your calendar for you and your family first. Otherwise there will never be leftover time for it.
JR Sauder [00:40:32]:
Yeah.
JR Sauder [00:40:32]:
So I think our concepts were around the same theme.
Tiffany Sauder [00:40:36]:
Yeah. Counting the size of your yes or quantifying the size of your yes, I think is a really critical, like, skill. I definitely did not do it on the HOA, but I. I really do try to. And everything else of, like, just making a list of what are all the steps that are going to go into this and what. I'm, like, literally quantifying it and saying, where am I going to get that time? Because a yes to something is a no to something else 100% of the time.
JR Sauder [00:41:04]:
Right.
Tiffany Sauder [00:41:05]:
So where's the time gonna come from? Even donating money to things can, like, you get invited to. It's just crazy. It can get very big fast. So anyway, we don't have to go down that rabbit hole. But how would you rate the conversation?
JR Sauder [00:41:20]:
Yeah. Again, I feel like we're aligned when we go through these. It's, I guess, refreshing to say, like, okay, there's common themes if you look at our answers to the questions. So maybe the communication earlier, like, maybe our overall communication is. Is good. Or you've put things in place where we have touch points that. That are happening. So we're using common, Common words.
JR Sauder [00:41:49]:
So, yeah, so that's. That's encouraging. I feel good about this. Like, you know, year 20.
Tiffany Sauder [00:41:56]:
Yeah. I think this, to me is just a reminder of when. I don't know how long we've been talking, but 35 or 40 minutes. And it's like the clarity that we've both gotten on some things that have been in our heads that we haven't said to one another. And we live in the same house. There's always something. And so how do we stay this intentional throughout the year? I think that, to me, is our charge for the coming year of how do we. I have been very intentional about the logistics of our household.
Tiffany Sauder [00:42:23]:
How do we be as intentional about talking about how we feel, how we feel supported, we feel seen. Like, are we showing up for each other in a way that is helpful and relevant? And I think. Let's go do it. You're 20.
JR Sauder [00:42:35]:
Here we go.
Tiffany Sauder [00:42:36]:
Here we come. Do you wanna sing?
JR Sauder [00:42:41]:
I'll pass.
Tiffany Sauder [00:42:43]:
If you would like to go through this same exercise with your spouse, we have a link and show notes for you to download. Our marriage check in. As you can hear, we're going to continue to use these questions with just more intentionality throughout the year to stay connected, not just on the stuff, but on our hearts so that we can lead and love. Well, babe, thanks for joining me in the middle of the day on a Tuesday.
JR Sauder [00:43:05]:
Yes.
Tiffany Sauder [00:43:06]:
Next year we're going to get him to a 7 or above. This is my goal. All right, done.
Tiffany Sauder [00:43:16]:
Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling Fear. You will not decide what happens in my life.
Tiffany Sauder [00:43:25]:
I will.
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