From childhood anxieties to executive leadership with Kyler Mason, part 3

[00:00:00] Every leader eventually comes to a decision point. At some point you have to choose, am I gonna let this thing win or am I going to take control of it and become the leader I want to be? For Tiffany, that thing was fear. We heard her go through her fear journey and face her fear head on. For me, that thing is anxiety, and for many years I thought there was no way out until I had a choice to make.

I'm Kyler Mason and this is my takeover of scared confidence. Do you remember when we first met how that happened? Yeah. Um, uh, Steven Ech mm-hmm. Introduced us. I think the biggest thing for me is the, the work that I've done with, uh, west Kate. He's my coach and he kinda told the story. He really me to said I'm looking for, to work with things or to identify when I'm having anxiety, when I'm coming on to prepare for things, to really do the hard work, to try to figure out where this is coming from.

[00:01:00] And since he knows me, I'm like super hard on myself. Like I use this word disappointed in myself, which like, is this is like, that's a heavy thing. And, um, like, you know, you never want your parents to be disappointed and you know, like it's a weird feeling to be like looking back at myself and be like, this is, you're a disappointment.

Um, but Wes has been very helpful to be like, if I'm holding up this mirror, you're telling yourself a story that's not true. You are doing well. There are people that trust you. There are things that you've accomplished that you should be proud of. And that's a narrative that. I don't naturally have in like, reflecting on, I guess me and performance and stuff like that.

And, uh, it's actually pretty important to have a little bit more balance in my thought process and the, and the way that I'm evaluating my performance and stuff like that. So I, I would give a lot of credit to the people around me. Um, Wes in particular to that have helped me in part, like really over the last two years.[00:02:00]

Like, get better at, at managing my relationship with anxiety. I remember honestly the, like, we were like three, maybe six months in and, uh, I think that the exploration of where does this come from, in particular, the anxiety and the, the facing it head on actually made it worse for a while, which is very frustrating, but felt committed to the like process, I guess.

And look back on that, uh, as I'm reflecting real time and happy about the progress, I am actually curious about like, it got worse before it got better. Like, what did you. Have to realize through that struggle that got you to a place of where it started to improve? I think so we've done Enneagram work.

Mm-hmm. Very helpful. Back to the tool like tools, um, I'm a six and you tell me that I am, um, thinking repressed [00:03:00] fair. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, that's what Enneagram sixes are thinking. Repressed. So I just had existed in my anxiety and not spent a ton of time. Thinking about why is this, how do I put disciplines, tools, frameworks, um, reflection in my life to help manage this?

So like actually addressing it probably made it even bigger. So it made it worse since like, thinking about it and reflecting on things was, is not a part of my just natural behavior. Um, that was probably a. A first for me. It's so interesting to me that you say that you're not a reflective person. Mm-hmm.

That's how I've experienced you. And maybe it's because of the context of our conversations or like you make me, I make you right. But like you are a very deliberate thinker, in my opinion, is you're somebody that slows down digs deep. To come up with like what you mean? Mm-hmm. And whatever it is. Um, but yeah, that's just something that I've [00:04:00] observed as well, so it's, anyways, I'm surprised that you're saying it out of Yeah.

Maybe I'm more calculated than I am reflective. I don't know. Okay. Yeah. How do you see the two different, I am very thoughtful about the, the, I guess the words I use, the way I, I tried to describe something or explain something, but I don't know that that is in, in my mind's eye what. I would consider reflection, like I think of reflection as more spending intentional time, uh, examining the, the past and experiences and connecting the dots to produce opinions on things, points of view, um, insights, things like that.

I wish I did that more so like, I'm just curious. So like, yeah, when you're developing thoughts or words and you're trying to like shape the words like what? What are you trying to like convey or get across? I'm just trying to not be dumb. Why do you think you're gonna be dumb? Like, I don't know. That has never been something that has crossed my [00:05:00] mind.

And again, like right, like I'm your coach, I'm sure. All right. But like, that's never been something that's crossed my mind. I wouldn't consider myself someone that has a, like a vast vocabulary. So I also, when I'm thinking. Just trying to be articulate. I want to, I want to be clear. I take the burden on of it is my job to help the person I'm talking to or my audience, um, be like, be at ease with understanding the things I'm saying.

So yeah, that's, that's kind of what's going on in my head. How does that connect to your story of anxiety? Yeah. The, the narrative that's in my head is, especially when I'm like gearing up for a. Presentation or performance, I should qualify this. Like I could be talking to one person and performance anxiety could be like washing over me.

Mm. It's like there's, there's two brains. There's one that's trying to communicate the thing and the other is, Observing me and judging me and waiting to tell me how [00:06:00] stupid I sound. I think that's probably a part of it. When I'm, when I'm thinking about what I'm saying or trying to be clear, it's this vicious cycle of self-evaluation in the moment is, is this coming out right?

And then if it goes the wrong direction, the like second brain takes over and um, if I even just suspect I'm. Confusing and unclear, uh, and then just like get sweaty and all the things that come with performance anxiety. So, kind of two questions here. Mm-hmm. One is, what does the counter voice sound like?

So if you've got one version of your brain that is telling you like how much you suck and how bad you sound and mm-hmm. You know, what's the counter to that? What's the alternative? Um, I'm still trying to meet that person I would say. That preparation is so obvious, but it's a big deal. Um, knowing, knowing I have something to fall back on if my brain shuts down is a, is it's [00:07:00] great, is helpful.

Insurance, uh, I, unlike our ceo, um, Tiffany, who just is, is very special and could walk on a stage, not know the subject and. Be told as she's walking up and crush it. So that's one thing. The other is probably what's been developed over time and with practice, with, with you, with Tiffany and Morgan is like in the moment when it, the performance anxiety just like peaks.

I will just pause and tell everyone, having a moment, my brain just went blank, gimme a second. And that just is like a complete reset. And I got really helpful feedback from Tiffany fairly recently. She was like, you know when you do that, that, that's not really that weird. Um, and I was like, that's really great to know cause I feel like I might as well just be in a clown suit when I say that.

Sure. Um, but if I don't, the alternative is just continue to spiral and I might as well just walk away from whatever I'm doing, [00:08:00] which would be way more embarrassing. Yeah. So that, that tool has been really helpful. Just to name it. When you speak honestly about what you're experiencing in real time, how do other people respond to that?

If I'm speaking, it's, they're not gonna say something in the moment, but I will see body language that is like, I see people trying to comfort me, like with some head nods or they'll lean in and then afterwards I'll get feedback sometimes that, hey, like, no, you're nervous, but good job. Things like that.

And I oftentimes am thinking, are you just doing that to make me feel better? Is this true? I knows. But, um, those are the, the kind of things, my understanding of like, I. Anxiety and my view of anxiety is basically it's a string of if then statements into the future that end in some sort of disaster. And so we start to feel anxious and, and oftentimes we're not fully aware that there are string of if then statements.[00:09:00]

But if we start to play out what actually we think is going to happen and the anxiety that we're feeling, It's like if this happens, then that might happen, and then that might happen, and then that might happen. And the further out into the future that you get, the less true it can be because it's the future and we can't know that thing.

One of the things that I will often tell Enneagram sixes, um, who. Have a tendency to project worst case scenarios and prepare for worst case scenarios at any given time is, you know, it's a string of if then statements into the future. Hope is also a string of if then statements into the future, but, In that case, it doesn't end in disaster.

It ends in we'll probably be okay. I, I totally buy into what you're saying. The, the thing for me is, it's just, it's not even conscious. Mm-hmm. Like if then's just, I'm not like, if this happens, then this happens and this and this and this. It's almost like the feeling happens then subconsciously [00:10:00] you're afraid.

Mm-hmm. And you're, you've talked to me about this, like your body has eventually just trained you. That you're in this scenario, be afraid, like fight or flight. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's very subconscious. There's a, there's a book called, um, the Body Keeps the Score So, Which is such a good book. Um, and it basically underscores what Kyler is saying here, is that our, our physical body might have learned to be afraid in some given situation that is sort of, um, sociocognitive.

It's not like, hasn't really like driven up to the mind yet. And what I'll say is some of the exercises that you and I have done is like, you know, point specifically to where you're feeling it in your physical body. And then we'll talk about it. To start to analyze it a little bit more. Mm-hmm. And like ask what are the string of if then statements that are coming.

I'll say this too. Um, and I think you've experienced this, which is that, [00:11:00] um, sometimes we just don't know. And so there are practices like breathing, feeling your feet on the ground and sort of getting into your body in the present moment that can help reduce the anxiety. So you've gotten to know me and you know that I like extreme sports.

I like to snowboard and mountain bike, and those are dangerous things. And you. Were just helping me to try to find tools for, for what I'm dealing with in, in business. And I was getting all nervous for a presentation. I was like, you know, Wes told me, he's like, why don't you look at this, this thing you're gonna deal with.

It work similarly to how you would, um, about to like go down a double black diamond, um, snowboarding and that. It's just a, a part of the process and it's for the thrill of it. And I don't, I wouldn't say that made it go away, but it was definitely like, this isn't life or death so much as if I make a mistake in a big way.

Mountain biking through trees, [00:12:00] like that's, that's a big deal. And I don't have anxiety about that for, for different reasons, but it's been an interesting, like, parallel that you drew for me that was helpful to just think about before I was. About to gear up for a speech. And, and when you're doing, um, extreme sports, do you do it for the thrill of it?

Like you've gotta enjoy it, right? I think so, yeah. This is the best. Um, I, I think part of what I'm wondering too is like, maybe what, I wonder if what connected for you in that as well is like when you, I. Hurl your body down a double black diamond. There's a lot of danger that's involved in doing something like that.

And even when you might encounter danger, you can sort of, um, maneuver however you need to maneuver in real time in order to kind of recover to safety. Yeah, more or less, I mean, in reflection right now I'm probably more qualified to give the speech [00:13:00] than I am to go down the double black diamond. That's pretty awesome, man.

What I've learned from like Wes is like my, my body has like trained me to be anxious about situations that are, that involve, let's just say performance. And I just now have this reaction because of the moment and it's not, It's not even a ton of fear. I think that now I just fear the anxiety cause I know what it does to me and my ability to like be articulate and be like the leader that I want to be.

I think I am now at a place where like I have a little bit more confidence in like I, I can, I can be the type of leader that I want to be. I need to work on telling my body when I'm about to have this moment of anxiety that I'm okay and I'm prepared. I know what I wanna say and. Just like work through it.

If you were to look past, over the last, [00:14:00] say, 18 months, two years, separate from our coaching or not, whatever, um, what would you say you are most proud of in the way that you've grown as a leader? I think that as I've had the time to norm into the role that I'm in, I. Have had more confidence in my point of view on the, the decisions we need to make as a business.

Yeah. And with that, it definitely helps balance the, the scale when I think of like anxiety tipping over to, to one end versus being calm, collected, and. Um, myself, so time has really produced time and reps and mm-hmm. Hard work have produced some confidence and, um, I'd say I'm proud on of the progress from 18 months, two years ago.

Yeah. I think, do you see a difference, Mr. Coach? I do. I do. I think, uh, [00:15:00] that word confidence, um, like you've got a greater, a greater sense of confidence in the decisions that you're making. And I've seen that over the arc of, and I think I said that in the earlier session, is that I've seen that over the arc of our work together.

Is that, like hard conversations were very hard at the beginning, but now you've kind of gotta flow now. Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm recognizing that like, You're like, I got this one. I think too there, I've seen you step more and more into the role of president, whereas early on, my perception is that you had trouble believing that people trusted you as much as they did.

So I remember when we did our 360, they're like, yeah, color's awesome. We trust him. But, uh, there was a lot of people that just said like, lean into like the level of, of trust that you have, lean into it. And I think that. It took you a while to do that and to get reps in as a president. Mm-hmm. Um, but I'm [00:16:00] seeing continued growth in that area is more and more you're stepping into what that role means and living into it with greater confidence.

So last year, In January, so actually January, 2023, kicking off this current year. We, uh, took some time at our company kickoff for everyone just to reflect on how have you grown this year, and I decided to write a bit of a story about how I've been approaching and dealing with my journey with anxiety.

I feel like this story is just beginning, but I can't help but to reflect on the growth I have seen in myself when it comes to managing some. Pretty debilitating anxiety. I think I officially made the decision to figure out how to manage, cope, and grow through my anxiety about two years ago. At that time, I was close to saying I might not be cut out for leadership in the business world.

I would be lying if I said that. It never crosses my mind. Now it does, but I know how [00:17:00] to manage it. I've worked my ass off managing unproductive thinking, building confidence, and putting myself in uncomfortable positions that give me evidence that I can grow and improve. I feel proud to look at where I am now and know that there's evidence that I can keep going and anxiety doesn't own me, and it hasn't stopped me yet.

Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling fear you will not decide what happens in my life. I will. If you wanna get the inside scoop, sign up for my newsletter. We decided to make content for you instead of social media algorithms. The link is waiting for you in show notes or you can head over to tiffany souder.com.

Thanks for listening.

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