Here’s what every working mom really wants with Amri Kibbler

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Tiffany Sauder [00:00:36]:I'm a small town kid born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy. And ever since, my husband, Jr. And I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep, that means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered that I could purposely embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world.

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:10]:And I want that for you, too. I'm Tiffany Sauder, and this is scared confidence.

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:20]:You may not have heard the name Amri Kibbler, but she and a co founder are doing an incredible amount of awesome work with their community. Hey, mama. I got a chance to talk to her and understand a little bit more about the role community had played in her life as she faced some big scary monsters like cancer, and even little things like figuring out when do you decide to disappoint your kid and to not be there when they ask you to so that you can pursue your professional pursuits, how do you figure that out? How do you make choices like that? They seem like impossible decisions. But if you're in the throes of a life of and you know that this is not a life where everybody always gets exactly what they want all of the time. And so we talked about some of these complexities. She also lives in a two career home and has two girls at home and is trying to figure out, how do you say yes to the best and say no to the rest? I'm really excited to talk today. And what I'd love to start with, Amri, is kind of like you're doing all of this cool stuff with mama, like, this intersection of mom and professional life. I would love to kind of go back to what did you grow up around? Did you have a professional mom? Did she stay home with you? What did that look like for you?

Amri Kibbler [00:02:44]:So I did not have a professional mom, actually, my mom was not working when I was growing up. And much later, after I ended up leaving the nest and finding my way, then she started working. But as a kid, I really didn't have any women role models who were building their own careers or really invest. It wasn't a strategic value, I will say. And somehow the expectation, and this just sounds so antiquated. I'm almost embarrassed to be kicking off the conversation with, this was like my parents, like, you're going to find a nice man and get married and have kids, and there wasn't an aunt, right? And in my mind, I always wanted to do so many other things. I always had these big dreams about what I wanted to do in my life. And it was even so much into the cliches of my parents really never taught me about financial literacy or money, and I saw them struggling with their communication around those things, too.

Amri Kibbler [00:03:44]:And it was something that I carried with me. So once I started my career and much later, I decided that I wanted to go off and start my own business, I had a lot of anxiety around that and fear and all these things that I then realized I was unpacking from that early narrative that I had created around myself about what I could be doing and should be doing. And I had made a lot of my early career decisions based upon those things.

Tiffany Sauder [00:04:13]:What your little girl self, when you say I laid in bed and I dreamed of this stuff, what did you dream of?

Amri Kibbler [00:04:20]:My little girl self wanted to be a fashion designer. I was obsessed with creating things. I had been sewing from very early age, making clothes for my dolls for myself, sewing machine, drawing, designing, doing all those things. But somehow I had heard, you'll never be successful at that. That's not a business. It's not a real job, it's not a real career. And so I had this fear, and a lot of the fear was really around the business side of it, that I wouldn't be able to handle that as a woman. And it ended up dictating the path that I took.

Amri Kibbler [00:04:57]:I eventually ended up actually working in fashion, but I sought a different path. I ended up being a fashion editor at Hurston Conde Nass, but I took the path of working for a large corporation because I had this fear and this lack of confidence around being able to build a business on my own and manage the finances and all of those things. It took me years and years to realize what was behind it and that it was just this story that I had concocted, learned, and heard, and it was not the truth. It's not the truth.

Tiffany Sauder [00:05:35]:Do you feel like, as you've become more clear on who you are and stepped into yourself, that's given your mom, in some ways, permission to do that, too? Do you feel like she's following in your audacity? Maybe that's projecting too far, but I've seen in my. I also was raised as a stay at home mom. Someday I'll do a research study that it's, like, empirically what I'm seeing is so many of us were raised by stay at home moms. So there's this piece of me that wants to recreate what that looked like for my family, but I also so much feel called outside of the home. And there were things I interpreted that was not what she meant to say to me. It's just what I interpreted, like, environmentally. And as I've kind of sprouted wings and done stuff, I find it's given her more courage to kind of try stuff. I find.

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:22]:I don't know if your mom has done the same, but I don't know.

Amri Kibbler [00:06:25]:I would have to ask her. And as you said, it definitely was not what she intended, right? Yeah. She wanted me to be happy and successful, but what her idea of success was, was different than mine, and I was internalizing her idea of success. Very interesting idea. I would have to ask her that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:43]:The next place I want to go is on the website about hey, mama, and we can talk a little bit about what this is, but you chose these words, and I love them. A social network where women can celebrate both motherhood and their careers. Celebrate both. Celebrate both of these pieces of you. It's not choosing one or the other. We talk about a life of and they have to fit together, but it's celebrating both pieces of this talk me through just the journey to that worldview and where you kind of realize, like, holy crap, my life is going to come together in a really different way than what I grew up in and how you came to this choice of hey, mama and just this. I love these words, like, celebrating both. I think there's a lot of power in that.

Amri Kibbler [00:07:28]:Celebrating both, but also celebrating the wholeness of whatever other layers there are for you and what you imagine and what you want to be. There are endless possibilities there and just creating a space where it's okay to show up and feel comfortable being honest about the challenges that come with the two of those. Because sometimes it's so hard because we have this perfect idea of how we should be as the perfect mom and how we should be as the perfect career woman and being able to alleviate a little bit of that and show up in a space in community where everyone is arriving there and they feel that push and pull really gives the space of being able to be vulnerable and then within that feeling inspired and excited and empowered to really go out and tackle all of those things that you want to do.

Tiffany Sauder [00:08:25]:What made you go from, hey, I'm going to just kind of build a tribe, I'm going to have a community of girlfriends, we're going to meet locally to saying, like, I think there's a broader idea here that I need to lean into and I need to explore, and it's been wildly successful. You have over 100,000 members now. What was the catalyst for that?

Amri Kibbler [00:08:45]:The catalyst was the early excitement that I saw when women would come to haymama gatherings and they would be wearing their stress or all of the things that they were thinking about throughout their day and seeing them connect with each other and having these conversations, their faces would light up. By the time we were closing and wrapping up the event, they were in total transition. They were all of a sudden excited to go out and tackle whatever it was that they were thinking of, of getting to the next level. If it was they were going to be fundraising or franchising or they were making their first hire. All of those things, while they can be challenging, all of a sudden they had support and they had other people that were with them on this journey. And seeing that excitement, that really inspired me to want to be able to be able to make that accessible and available to more women around the country.

Tiffany Sauder [00:09:43]:I think this idea of community can be rich and beautiful like you're explaining it. I think it can be overplayed sometimes where it gets used incorrectly. And I also think it can be a place where there's a lot of misconceptions about what does it mean to give and get well from a community. So what have you kind of learned as you've been running this for almost ten years, and this word community means a lot of things to a lot of different people. What have you learned about how to, I don't know, give people tips for how to enter well, how to contribute well, how to get this rich, pinnacle experience? I think it sometimes is adjacent to this idea of mentorship. It's like, oh, everybody I know has a mentor, and it's like this angelic experience and, oh, my word, my mentor changed my life. And what if I haven't found that person, and that hasn't happened to me. Does that mean I'm doing it wrong? I think community can sometimes have that same pressure to it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:10:42]:So what have you learned in watching this play out for a decade and people in different stages and phases of life with different capacities to put lots of time or little time into it? What have you kind of learned, or what advice would you have from people for people who are trying to find a tribe and find a community and plug in?

Amri Kibbler [00:11:01]:Well, I would like to say community is really a mindset, right? Like, you can be making connections in every different avenue that you're going down. It's feeling that you're open to really getting to know someone, and that could be someone that you're meeting. If you're on the subway or in a meeting that you have set up or you're going to a networking event, it's like having this open mindset instead of feeling a pressure, okay, I'm going to a networking event. This is the point in time where I'm going to get all of my connections in. You have a big, long life full of a million different opportunities to meet people. And while some of them will come to you easily throughout the day, then you can also set yourself up for coming intentionally to specific networking experiences. I just hosted a meet the founder event where our members come and popcorn around and really share exciting things that they have going on right at that moment. And one of the women she shared that she had come to a mama matchmaking event, which is where we do some intentional networking.

Amri Kibbler [00:12:04]:We have these every month. It's a great way for our members to connect to each other that she had met her CEO at one of our matchmaking events earlier in the year, and so she was so excited and thanking me for that. But it's just these opportunities, right? Because if you don't show up for yourself there, then you don't have the opportunity to make those kinds of connections, and there's a million different opportunities and experiences. We just hosted a summit just a couple of weeks ago, actually, with the luminary in New York City. It was the women who innovate Summit. So we had women from all over there, and we were focusing on innovation in technology and femtech and Famtech. And I had the opportunity to interview one of our members, Eleanor Brown. She's the founder of diversity board.

Amri Kibbler [00:12:51]:She's a Hey Mama member. And after our Fireside chat, she's like, I've been wanting to get in touch with you. And just share that there is something so magical that is going on in your community that I haven't found in any of the other communities. And I'm a part of a lot of networking groups. A lot of them are for entrepreneurial women. I haven't been a part of one that maybe it's the juxtaposition of the motherhood and the business side that I found this element. She's like, I was connecting with someone in the community about a business conversation, and we ended up opening up and sharing some personal things about ourselves. And I shared that my daughter is autistic and that I was really struggling with finding a specific kind of resource for her.

Amri Kibbler [00:13:36]:And this woman had the exact resource that I needed. And that's not why we were there having the conversation. But it comes up and it comes out, and I see that kind of thing happening over and over again because of the fact that as a mom, you want to share, you want to help another mom. It makes you feel really good. It makes you feel fulfilled to be able to say, oh, I know, the photographer, the lawyer, whatever it else it is that you need, it makes you feel really good. If you're going to help someone get over a speed bump or be able to fix any kind of challenge that they're having. And I think that is kind of like the special sauce of how it can feel a little different and why it's warmer and more inviting when you walk into a hey, mama room. Because there are those two sides, right? You can talk about your business, but you also know this other person that you're talking to is also caring for little people and is bound to be empathetic and kind and kind of get all those other pieces that are in this messy, sticky thing that we do as working moms.

Amri Kibbler [00:14:43]:And there's something special about that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:46]:You talk about the messy, sticky part of entrepreneurship, and I'd say just wanting to be excellent in a lot of different facets of life. We've just picked work and moms as two of our lanes. Where have been times, maybe in your own life, where you found the stickiness and really realized the power of community, or just the power of being able to say out loud, like, I need help right now, because that can be hard and intimidating, too.

Amri Kibbler [00:15:13]:Oh, my gosh. So many times. So I'm a colon cancer survivor, and so I went through a huge shift. I was diagnosed in December of 2020, and community then really came through for me on a personal level because all of a sudden I was facing this really scary time. And I totally froze. Like, I was panicked. I became depressed. I couldn't understand how this was happening to me.

Amri Kibbler [00:15:44]:All of those things that you hear people play in their head, all of that was happening for me. And so my community really showed up for me, and I got text messages from people that I hadn't been really close with before and people checking in on me, and it really changed the whole experience for me. It's very lonely and isolating, not even being in the pandemic, but it was the middle of the pandemic, so it was a very hard time. And having those people there to send me messages and think about me and send me cards and things, it was really special for me.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:21]:What a crazy time for all of that to be playing out. My goodness.

Amri Kibbler [00:16:26]:Yeah, it was definitely a crazy time.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:28]:I think sometimes also when people outside looking in, look at someone like you, of like, oh, my word. Look at all the success and look at the things that you're able to do, they don't see the things that you've had to say no to so that you can say yes to this. Are there things that you've had to say no to or just been strategic about saying, I could put my time here, but I'm not going to, or just even decisions with what you're there for, for your kids and what you're not? How do you think about that?

Amri Kibbler [00:16:56]:So, no is something that I've had to learn to say pretty recently, probably in the past four years. I always wanted to say yes and be there and do all the things, but being sick, I had even less bandwidth to be doing things. And during the healing and recovery process, I really had to get clear on my priorities and say no to a lot of things. So, yes, there were a lot of no's, and it was really hard to learn that lesson and be able to do that. But I equally have had to say no to my career and also then to fun things or things that I had to say no to my kids even as well. It's not that I specifically learned to say no just to my career, but I said no to my family when it was something that I felt like was going to be a learning experience for them or they were going to be okay with that. So you make all of these decisions as a mom in business, and sometimes you feel guilty for it. So I've learned that once you make the decision, the best thing to do is to stand in your space and know it's going to be okay either way, because we've made these decisions with the best interest at heart.

Amri Kibbler [00:18:17]:Right? So it's okay when you have to say no to your career and it's okay when you have to say no to your family.

Tiffany Sauder [00:18:23]:You shared before we pushed record here. Your kids are eight and twelve. How much do you bring them into your decision making or kind of setting priorities together? What does that look like?

Amri Kibbler [00:18:37]:Yeah, I bring them quite a bit into what I do with Hey Mama and talk to them about the business, especially because I think so impactful for the next generation to understand what it's like to make decisions in the business and be a leader and a boss and all those things. So we have funny conversations around the dinner table, or I ask them about what it is that they think that I do or what they would do in certain situations, which I think it's a good learning experience. And my older daughter, who is twelve, is very busy starting a lot of businesses all the time. Etsy definitely needs to watch out because she's got a lot of things coming their way.

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:24]:Never before seen.

Amri Kibbler [00:19:26]:Yes, there's some never before seen items coming your way. But when I have to make a decision to say no to one of my daughters, like I recently decided to go ahead and go to an event that we were having in Chicago, even though my eight year old was really upset because that next day she was going to have to go on a field trip and she didn't know anyone and they were going to the Bronx Zoo and she was really scared and she was crying the night before. But I made the decision because I think it's good for her to put herself out there. And I knew she wasn't going to be any danger. But I did for a little while. That night was like, oh, it's so heart wrenching. But I know I'm doing the right thing. And then ultimately she had a great time.

Amri Kibbler [00:20:15]:She made a new friend. She was so happy and it all worked out. But even if she has been upset and been sad, I think it's important because our kids need to learn to feel these things and work their way through difficult situations and little disappointments like that. So I felt like it was a good learning experience for both of us.

Tiffany Sauder [00:20:38]:I love that story. I oftentimes say my whole family pays a price for the career choices I have and my whole family benefits in amazing ways from it too. But it's not a zero sum game. There is a price they pay and there is some amazing overflow of experiences and places we get to go. And I think the more complete mom that they have as a result of me having a chance to chase some of what I want. And those little moments where you're like, walking back down the stairs like, oh, my word, am I doing the right thing? I hope that I just want somebody to tell me the answer. It's an imperfect journey, and I think that is an important part of this to publish to people. Listening is like, it is imperfect.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:25]:And it could have been a mess. It could have been the, I'm going to say in air quotes, wrong choice. Then there's always apologies and forgiveness. There are times where I've picked the wrong thing, like I left when I should have stayed home, and there are times when I stayed home and I should have left. It's imperfect. But the point is, like, stay in the game. It's an imperfect journey. And they do learn resiliency and what they're capable of, and there's other ways to.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:52]:I'm sure you supported her, like a text message that morning and checking in with her when she got home and all these kinds of things.

Amri Kibbler [00:21:58]:I do think there's a lot of value there in having them see us work through these struggles and imperfections and understanding that we're all just trying to negotiate the best path forward to get to the end goal. And that, yes, we make mistakes, and you could too. And you know what? It's not the end of the world when you make a mistake, you make a mistake and then you apologize or you figure out whatever you need to do to make amends, and then we move on. And I think that that's a really important lesson for kids to have. It's getting over the fear of failure and the fear of making a mistake and all those things, too. It's good for them to see us struggling with that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:22:43]:I agree. I don't think we should hide it. I think people are always interested to know how you've learned to take care of yourself. Like the analogy of putting your oxygen mask on first. So I'd just be curious to know, Anne Marie, how you've learned to take good care of your own heart and spirit. I mean, as a community leader, you are like literally facilitating other people all the time and pouring yourself out. And so how do you take care of homebase? What does that look like? And has that changed in your health journey over the last few years?

Amri Kibbler [00:23:14]:That has changed so much in my health journey, I will say, before I got sick, I was running on an empty tank all the time. I was powering through, pushing through to get things done, and I wasn't listening to my body and listening to my intuition. So I will say that I've had a complete shift. What I do is I'm just really intentional in checking in with myself. So in the morning when I wake up, I really kind of do, like, a whole body scan. I'm like, okay, how do I feel today? How's my energy today? What do I need? Do I need a little extra time to regulate my nervous system? This morning I do a meditation when I wake up in the morning, and this is kind of a funny thing that I do. I set my alarm for 606. I don't know why.

Amri Kibbler [00:24:06]:And then when the alarm goes off, instead of getting up, I open the window so I can see out the window, and I put in my headphones, and I do a guided meditation. I have a meditation teacher that I worked with when I was sick, and he really helped me a lot in physical healing as well as mental healing. He makes hypno meditation cool. And so I do one of those before I get up because no one can stop me. No one can need something. All of the things can't get in my way. I'm like, it has to happen before I get out of the bed. And that's how I start the day and set my tone for doing things for myself.

Amri Kibbler [00:24:43]:And there's a lot of other little things. I've learned a million tips and tricks about destressing and regulating my nervous system and all those things throughout this journey. But I think the first thing you do in the morning is the most important thing, like setting the tone for you first thing in the morning.

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:03]:I'm obsessed right now over making sure that my kitchen is clean before I go to bed, because when I come out in the morning, I need to see peace. And I actually think it's probably more connected to what you're talking about than it needing to be neat. I think it's making sure my first thought is not one of anger. It's like, let's just start this peaceful, our fresh start. Look, a fresh kitchen that we can just get dirty with breakfast. But if it's messy, it sends me into orbit. And I bet it's about this just, like, starting fresh and clean and beginning feeling like there's just, like, a great jumping off point for the day.

Amri Kibbler [00:25:45]:It's having calm in the morning. I also don't turn on any lights, so I open the window so that naturally you have, like, remote control.

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:51]:I need to know how this window gets open.

Amri Kibbler [00:25:53]:It's right behind my bed, so it's one of those ones that you push up. Okay, great. But I intentionally don't turn all the lights. My husband gets up earlier and he goes in the kitchen and charges all the light. And I walk without turn off all the lights. So I have to wake up slowly and I try to make it be a very calm experience. And hopefully I have 45 minutes before one of my kids gets up and starts screaming. All the people.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:21]:Totally, yes. And you have both girls?

Amri Kibbler [00:26:24]:I have both girls, yeah. So one has a 755 bus and then one has an 830 bus.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:32]:Yes. I have all girls as well. And I think the proximity and words of a girls is totally different than a boy house. They always know where I am, and they have so many words to say to me all the time. Somehow my friends who have boys, it's very different. They're like, always in the basement. They don't know anything about what's going on.

Amri Kibbler [00:26:53]:I was like, oh, they don't want to talk about their feelings. They're girls. There's a lot of feelings and emotions that are happening early in the morning.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:01]:Yes. We are not a shortage for those things. I'd love to also just connect on. Does your husband work outside the home as well?

Amri Kibbler [00:27:08]:Yes. So my husband, we live in a little town called Putnam Valley. It's about an hour and a half from New York City. We live on a lake. We moved here beginning of the pandemic, and my husband commutes back and forth to Brooklyn every day. So he leaves and drives or takes the train and then comes back. I don't know how he does it, but it makes it very challenging as far as then I do all of the after school driving around and those things. Not to have an extra person to lean on when you need someone to pick up one of the extra pickups.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:43]:And you have no help with that stuff right now?

Amri Kibbler [00:27:46]:No. There's not a lot of resources where I live. I live kind of in the woods. There's not a lot of. Yeah, babysitters. It's not a thing. Okay.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:55]:It's not easily accessible.

Amri Kibbler [00:27:57]:It's not a thing here.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:59]:Well, I could never live there. How would that work?

Amri Kibbler [00:28:03]:I know we had a nanny when we lived in Brooklyn, and everyone had a nanny, but it's a different culture here. And my kids are older, but when you get to doing the drop off with multiple activities that are happening, it gets a little tight. I'm like, okay, I have to be at the school, and then 15 minutes later, I have to pick up the other one. And then they get to get. To get over to dance class, and I'm like, come on, let's go. Totally.

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:24]:And you've got, like, coolers filled with protein balls and snacks and hummus and avocados and.

Amri Kibbler [00:28:31]:Totally, yeah, you've got all those things. You've got four. So you have the bigger cooler and a larger vehicle.

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:38]:Well, it's crazy. I physically couldn't do some of the driving. Just like the times they're further away. One of them is like a half hour away, the practices. So I have helpers, but we have a nanny, and then I use the 24 year old professionals that aren't married yet that are looking for another three to $400 a month. Just, like, helping me out with stuff. I'm big on that train.

Amri Kibbler [00:29:10]:That's a good train.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:11]:Yeah, I'm real big on that train. They're very helpful. Okay, well, let's spend a little bit of time on Hey Mama. In particular. If there's somebody who's interested in the community, is there qualifications like, who do you look for? What's the process look like? And then what does engagement look like? Do they need to live in New York City? Can it be anywhere in the country, in the world? Let's talk about that.

Amri Kibbler [00:29:36]:Yeah. So we are a national community. We have members in every state. So you do not need to live in New York City or a metropolitan area. And you can go to slash membership and you can apply there, and you can see all about the membership on our website. And is it just in person events.

Tiffany Sauder [00:30:00]:Or how does someone practically engage in it?

Amri Kibbler [00:30:04]:Okay, absolutely. So we're both a digital and an in person community, which I think is, like, the really beautiful part. So if you live in an area where we aren't having a lot of events, you can still engage with us on the digital front. And we have digital events. You can also learn more about Hey Mama. We do a monthly event called the intro, where you can get to meet our head of community, and she'll walk you through how the platform works and all of the different things that are a part of the membership, too. So I always like to tell people to check that out as well. If you're a member of Hemama, you have a profile, and that's where you can really interact with people online.

Amri Kibbler [00:30:43]:You can ask questions. We have 18 different connectors. So these are women who are experts in their area, and they are leading conversations in channels within the Hey Mama Connect platform. They're anything from financing, podcasts, media, and you can go into those channels and you can read through all the conversations. So even if you don't feel like you have a question that you want to ask, you can see someone has probably already asked that question. You can type your question in and see any related messages that are coming up there. Our directory is easily searchable, so if you're going to be traveling, say you're going to be going to LA and you work in the wellness community and you wanted to meet some other moms there and have some meetings, you can just search in the Haymama community, put in their industry, see all of the different women that are in Haymama and send messages. You can set meetings up there as well as get access to all of our online events.

Amri Kibbler [00:31:41]:We do a monthly mama matchmaking event. We have other inspiring workshops and webinars and different things like that. And then we have the in person events, which I think are just the really magical part of Hey Mama where we bring women together. We love to get them vulnerable and giving them the opportunity to really connect and share more about what they do. And we also have larger summits like the women who innovate Summit, where we have panels and inspiring women come in as speakers as well. So there's a whole bunch of things that are a part of being members of the community as well as we have visibility opportunities for our moms because we know they're always looking for ways that they can help to spread the word about their businesses as well.

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:26]:Yeah, that's awesome. It's like the season of New Year's resolutions. And if they're looking at their journal or meditation and saying, this is how I want to get better in 2024, what might some of the things be that women are writing down where Hey Mama could be the answer for it?

Amri Kibbler [00:32:43]:They might be thinking, I'm ready to make a career shift and start my own business. They might be thinking, I'm really ready to just take it to the next level. I want to grow my social media following. I'm looking to connect with someone who can help me to rev up the pr for my business. I'm looking to collaborate with other brands in the same space to help each other to grow and collaborate. They might be thinking, I'm looking for a co founder. All of those things.

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:15]:Awesome. I love it. I love what you guys are doing. I think it's so important and I feel like you guys were so early on shining a spotlight on choosing this intersection. I'll read from your website again because I love the words you guys chose. People who have incredibly high expectations of both our careers and our personal lives, and who doesn't want that excellence in both areas. So if you're interested in learning more, all of the links that she's talked about are in the show notes, and you'll join over 100,000 other women who are in pursuit of excellence in all areas of their lives. Thanks for joining me today.

Amri Kibbler [00:33:50]:Thank you. So nice meeting you.

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:54]:Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confidence. Until next time, keep telling fear. You will not decide what happens in my life. I will. If you want to get the inside scoop, sign up for my newsletter. We decided to make content for you instead of social media algorithms. The link is waiting for you in show notes, or you can head over to tiffanysauder.com.

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:16]:Thanks for listening.

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