Leading with grit, grace and curiosity with Kelly Knight

Tiffany Sauder: This week I interviewed Kelly Knight. She is the president of EOS and one of those women that from a distance I've watched lead for a long time and only recently got a chance to meet her in person and invite her on to the podcast. just really an individual who for a long time has had high expectations of life. And you can tell. Has figured out how to perform at a really high level for like decades. And most recently, she stepped into the president role at EOS when EOS was like still really small. She was in the first 10 employees and has led the organization through its sale to private equity. And now through it's like really growth journey, they've got over 120 some employees now, like it's a totally different organization than the one that she joined.

And it's really cool. To see her continue to grow and push herself and to hear just her themes of leadership. I also wanted to explore with her. So make sure you listen to this part. she recently climbed Mount Whitney and had a like legitimate harrowing life threatening experience. And we talked about how that experience has informed her leadership. And it's a lesson I won't soon forget either. So Listen into my conversation with. EOS's president, Kelly Knight.

Kelly Knight:

Tiffany Sauder: Uh, how are things? Do you guys feel like there's a deep breath period after the conference or not so much?

Kelly Knight: Absolutely not.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

Kelly Knight: I mean, it's an exciting thing, but EOS has so certainly that week is a ramp up to so many different things. certainly a very full week, but we really continue to hit the ground running post Conference.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, I get that.

Kelly Knight: What are your kid’s ages? so my oldest is 23, it's our son Ryan, and then we've got Katie, who is 21, she's official now. And then we have a daughter, Lauren, who just turned 16.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. I just had mine so late that it's like my friends kids are going to college, for sure, but it is not my life. So, your baby's 16. Okay.

Kelly Knight: Yeah, baby's 16. So there was a little bit of a gap, you know, between baby 2 and baby 3.

Tiffany Sauder: when your kids were home and like younger, you know, were your, was your career like it is now? Or did you ramp into this?

Kelly Knight: It's a good question. I would say I ramped into it, really, more than anything. I mean, it was very full. Well, you know, it's funny how perspective

Tiffany Sauder: I know.

Kelly Knight: So at the time, truthfully, I mean, I had three little kids and I was doing a startup. So what am I talking about? I mean, that's challenging and that's just, you know, perspective. This is just different. and so I came from running my own business and selling it and then doing a startup. And then I did that for seven years and then came and did kind of a like saved business kind of thing here in Michigan. And then was recruited away only just a couple of years later to come to EOS. So. You know, it's like every little phase of your journey is different and exciting and you appreciate every phase of it but Looking back if I were to look at it in isolation each one of those was challenging

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And then did your husband work outside the home or does he stay home?

Kelly Knight: He now he also he has his office in the lower level and But he he's a commodity management specialist. He had always been in the office, but since covid he's been working too, so we both get to Be working from home, which is nice.

Yeah. See each other more. So you guys are very much like very much two career home. Yeah, very much. So that's been, you know, both a blessing and a curse from time to time, you know, to find you to find because it's just a challenge. As you well know, you know, the story and that you shared at the U. S. conferences really, can be very challenging, right? The competing needs of what your family is going through, and your children are going through and different businesses, and you're trying to balance.

The best way that you can

Tiffany Sauder: So you're like a half stage in front of me. My oldest is 14, your youngest is 16. So we're like almost daisy chained, uh, sitting where you are right now. When you think back to even like 10 years ago when your oldest is 13, you know, do you look back and say like, I, I am at peace with the choices I made, or are there things that you would do differently knowing what you know now?

Kelly Knight: for sure, there's always things you would do differently, but largely I feel at peace. And the reason why is because variations of the quote are attributed to different people. But, Jackie Kennedy Onassis had this phrase that, you know, roots. To grow and wings to fly. There's again different variations of that.

I remember reading about her and about her philosophy of raising children and thinking that's kind of the way that I feel. I want to be present with my children and yet I also feel it's really important for me to have the ability to go and thrive and do things that I'm really interested in and I didn't feel like being at home all the time was the right choice for me.

Tiffany Sauder: hmm.

Kelly Knight: And so, in having said that, I was really blessed that I was in the financial industry, and this was not when it was very popular,

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, right.

Kelly Knight: say, but I was pregnant with Ryan, my first born baby, and I have these idealistic ways that, of course, I want to do things, and I had read that quote and went to the managing partner of the financial advisory business that we were running and I said, Hey, I want to work from home and I'll come in a couple of days a week to meet with clients, but the rest of the days, I'm going to be doing my casework and everything from home and I just laid out and explained the way that I had planned to execute and do that.

And do that, what I thought would be well. And he was like, okay, all right, let's try it and see what happens. And I just, you know, kind of the thing that I'm most proud about is back then that I was brazen enough at a time in the industry 20, 25 years ago, when women just kind of didn't do that. It wasn't like everybody was in an office.

There wasn't the COVID thing where the virtual or hybrid was typical and that I was just comfortable enough to be able to ask.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

Kelly Knight: And to just almost expect it, it's kind of an odd thing, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't say no, and he didn't, but that being said, it was very challenging, much more challenging than I anticipated, right?

So, the little, like, agreement of how we would work was the easy part. The hard part was really putting it into practice.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm hmm.

Kelly Knight: at home? And I didn't, at the time, I didn't really want a lot of help and thought that I could do it all on my own and realized, you know, of course, very quickly that it's not shameful to want or need help.

And, uh, I had to learn a lot of lessons along the way, but I think by and large, I'm pretty happy with the decisions because I kept the idea of what was going to be good in my world for connection and keeping circles connected to my family tight.

Tiffany Sauder: What do your kids say about it? Cause I, I asked my kids even now, like, you know, what are your observations about our lives? What are the things where you're like, this is nuts. I definitely will not do this in my own household. And what are the things where you're like, Oh, I love it. And your kids are beginning, you know, at 23 beginning to kind of be able to reflect on some of that.

Kelly Knight: It's a good question, but I just don't think they knew anything differently. It's the only way they were raised. So they don't have a measure of comparison starting to become more. So, because the 2 older ones have friends and they're in college and they have some different experiences, but. I think by and large, they think, ah, it was pretty normal.

I guess they would just call it normal. It's what their version of normal was. And you know, there were times that it was, I mean, it was a hot mess in our house, right? I'm doing my work and you know, I'm picking up a baby who's, you know, months old and we're going to hockey and I'm on my phone doing conference calls and trying to close a deal or something crazy, right?

And it was just normal for them. So it just goes to show the resilience of little beings, to kind of adapt and mold to whatever their environments are. And, you know, I think they always knew that I was doing my best.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, totally. That, yeah, there's a lot to that, for sure.

did you see your mom work outside the home? Did she, is that what you saw growing up?

Kelly Knight: Well, growing up, my mom was a stay at home mom for a long time. But then when I was about 12 years old, she went back to school to become a physical therapist. And so that was interesting because it was sort of midstream. Maybe a little further than that, even into my childhood. So it was a different thing when she decided to go back to school and study that.

but I remember thinking how cool that was that I had had her at home for the really early years. And then I would come home to get a snack out of the refrigerator and I'd find like a heart wrapped in paper because she was doing like dissection, you know, I think I was going to get like bologna or something out of the refrigerator.  So anyway,

Tiffany Sauder: hilarious.

Kelly Knight: And also my mom, by the time I had children, she was retired from her craft. And so she was very present with my children. And she passed away five years ago, but very present with my children and lived five minutes away. So I've had that blessing to have her very supportive to the upbringing of my children.

Tiffany Sauder: When you were little, did you picture that this is what your life would look like, Kelly?

Kelly Knight: Uh, no, no, no, not really, but but then again, not necessarily off either, because do you even remember this? This is probably predates you, but the carbon copies do you remember

Tiffany Sauder: Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Kelly Knight: Press down and there'd be a carbon sheet. You'd write on it. It would press through to the yeah. Okay, so I have little receipt books and things were businessy.

My dad was in business. So he would bring home stuff and I would play office. So, I mean, in a very funny sense, like, I always enjoyed the craft of building a business or thinking about a business, even as a little tiny girl, but, I certainly did not. necessarily imagine that I would have done the things that I've done today, but it has been fun.

Tiffany Sauder: That's cool. So tell me, I think one of the most important parts of a career or of a life, let's call it a life, is, is the process of discovering this is what I'm excellent at. Like, this is where I thrive, these are my talents, this is the place I know I can add value to the people and the world and the purposes around me.  so what were the moments along the way for you where you started to realize who you were, the way you were wired, and the places where you could really have impact?

Kelly Knight: Yeah, there are moments of time that I pick out throughout the way that one of the ones that stands out to me is when I was with United Capital and basically, Our financial advisory practice was sold and we were coming together with a group of people. We were in Michigan and they were in California and we were coming together to build a new company called United Capital.

And what we brought with us was the idea of how financial advisory or financial practices were born. And they were bringing, you know, other capabilities and know how about. Just running business and capital and things like that. So you're basically bringing two different mindsets together to build this new RIA managed money business.

And what was really cool is all I had ever known was being a financial advisor and running my own business. But then doing the startup, I showed up with my backpack in a folding chair, quite literally, in a room. And we figured out how we were going to start a whole new business. but it was cool because I knew.

My craft back from being a financial advisor, but what I didn't know is all the curiosity and the learning that I was going to have to take that and learn how to, build platforms and communicate with people and build a really an enterprise, a business. So it was really fun to see that. I didn't know that I actually had vision and the capability to build businesses that way.

I sort of always thought I was more or less like an individual practitioner, right, in the financial advisory space. Like, Oh, I can do this. I can work with clients. And that was very cool and neat. But, then I would get curious and say, Oh, I really want to work with the technology team because I want to see how the platforms are built.

So then every piece of curiosity along the way is what built that next capability that took me to wherever it was I was meant to go. So I would take whatever craft I had and just build on it and through pure curiosity and collaboration with others that Curiosity piece is actually what launched me to go do something else.

It was never the core thing. so that was You know fun to see how that just continued to evolve over time and then of course after seven years I left there that company was sold to Goldman Sachs and then did some other things here in Michigan and then ended up at u. s. Worldwide and then I never knew I was an integrator.

So then coming here, another example was I didn't know what an integrator was. that was only born out of the fact that I had been in Vancouver. I was on a vacation. I dislocated my shoulder. Really badly. And I was on a good number of narcotics that somehow came back to the United States and I was sitting in a dark room because I was in so much pain.

I was having migraines and I'm, I'm tinkering away on my laptop and lo and behold, I get a phone call from a recruiter and I have a conversation. No clue hung up and immediately could not recall what I'd even spoken about. My husband comes in to check on me and he says, how are you doing? I said, I don't know.

I think I had a conversation with the recruiter and, he said, you did and so

Tiffany Sauder: He's like, I don't know if you're in the shape for that, Kelly.

Kelly Knight: So then literally a day later the recruiter calls me back. I have another conversation. Don't remember any of it, but again, still on 3 different kinds of Narcotic heavily drugged, very heavily drugged.

And it was after that that I got the call that they wanted to fly in my from from Keystone search, who do integrator searches. And I said, okay, I need to clean up my act and get off these painkillers from my shoulder so that I can have a coherent conversation. so that is really how I.

Came to know us and us worldwide. I did not come from the world. I wasn't an implementer. My company did not run on us. I had not read traction. I mean, quite literally was the most novice of novice, but once I understood what the integrator was, I said, ah. So this is what I was meant to do. This is my unique ability.

I never knew what to call it. Um, but now that I've had it described and I can see it in the real world, it's 100% who I am and what I'm meant to do. So,

Tiffany Sauder: Was it a process for you, Kelly, to see yourself as a president, to like wear that title and like to get comfortable with the orientation there's 1 thing to sort of start a practice and say, like, I know my clients. I started this from the ground up. I know the things and then to start something again, kind of from the ground up and know how it's all wired.

And then to come in and say, this is an already an organization. It needs leadership to the next level. You'd seen you could grow stuff, but in that capacity you hadn't really done the thing yet.

Kelly Knight: that's right. I had not, I had had people working for me in different capacities, but to lead in this way was very different. But I tell you what, what I had learned. Through trying all these different curiosities was truly how much I love people. I love the process of what we call here at us LMA. So leadership plus management equals accountability.

And the most fun I have is collaboration. Now collaboration sometimes comes in the form of partnerships or whatnot. But also the internal team, I just love that craft. So it was something that I needed to learn more, right? I had done it in a very limited way, but I just loved it. And also the passion for what U.

S. Means to the world, how we show up to help entrepreneurs live their ideal lives and get everything they want from their business. I just love every little thing about it. So the way that we do that is through people. It's through our implementer community. Those are business coaches out in the world who teach and facilitate and coach e o s with leadership.

Teams of companies. Target market size 10 to two 50. But then we also do that through our own internal team who has grown from. You know, almost it was 7 years ago that I took the integrator seat here at EOS, and I was the first W2 employee.

Tiffany Sauder: Wow,

Kelly Knight: So imagine that, and now we're 125 people, 6 plus years later. But, so it was really, truly taking a very teeny, tiny, Team and growing it and we still continue to grow about 40% a year So it's just been the most fun thing I've ever done the most rewarding and I love every minute of it.

Tiffany Sauder: What's that transition been like for you Kelly and going from it was more founder led when you started and I don't know How far do you know could see into the future as far as knowing that he was gonna sell it or not? Um, I've, I've heard fringes of the story and it sounds like it wasn't totally his plan probably when you started.

And so now here you are owned by, very smart, but their private equity, you know, looking for maybe different type of urgency to growth and a different imperative than when you joined the organization. What has that change in orientation been like for you?

Kelly Knight: Oh It's been the coolest journey Tiffany because when I first came in I had this blessed set of about two years of Gina Wickman, who's the founder, creator of all things EOS and his business partner, integrator, Don Tinney. The two of them could not be more different from one another, but their gifts are both plentiful.

I mean, they're just both so hugely, helpful in, in helping. Me really learn EOS and be who I am as a leader today, but to come in, I think they always had a mindset that they would eventually sell the company, but it gave me the grounding and the footing to really understand how we take us to the world through our community, through books and through the web based platform and really to understand that tripod, the flywheel that makes us what it is and the abundance mindset and all the philosophies.

But Gino did really know that the business. Was going to transform it away and he would not want to do it. So the second I said, Hey, Gino, we're going to need an employee handbook and a lot of these other things. And he's like, ah, an employee handbook. I'm out. So, um, we jokingly say that that was one of the triggers that he said, we need to go to the marketplace and get an investment banker.

So that we can go and find the right buyer is what we called it. The right buyer criteria that could take us to the world and do all the things that, you know, when Don maybe didn't want to do, they loved the beginning, the tinkering and the honing and the refining and building the business model. But then once it hit a certain point where the scaling and growth and going deeper in process and people and data just became onerous.

or was going to become onerous, then that's really when we went to the marketplace and vetted what ended up being about 12 final buyers and then eventually ended up with Firefly. So David Mann and Mark Schneider and Derek Smith and the team, we now work with them and they've, they've done great. They, you know, it, it is a little funny though.

It's I, and I say this, And that's a little like getting married, but you've barely dated, you know, you've gone through this process. So it can be a little awkward at first, you're learning to get to know each other. We have a certain way that we've done business, right? And we think that there's a lot of like merit to that and the core philosophies and whatnot, but they also bring a lot of interesting thinking and ideation.

Uh, in partnership to the table too. So it really is like a marriage. You kind of have to take a deep breath and say, okay, where are we at? Here's where the company has been. Here's the history and we want to honor it. And we're excited about partnering with you so that we can take us to the next level.

I'm doing all the things that Gino just never would have wanted to do. And that's okay, because it's honoring the gift of what he created and perpetuating it to the world in different ways.

Tiffany Sauder: Along the way, the title of the podcast is Scare Confident. you present, like, I totally understand it. I know where we're going. I know my role in it, which I'm not saying is easy to do, but there's like a sense of you're seven years into the process as you were going through that, were there moments where like.

fear would take hold of your thoughts or like you'll be like, blah, what is happening? Like does that ever happen to you?

Kelly Knight: for sure. Oh my gosh, still every, I mean, pretty much every day because I say as the integrator of us worldwide, I'm simultaneously thrilled and terrified to do what I do every day because I think what makes me feel that way is that I have a responsibility for the, incredible work that is being done through EOS and to protect and perpetuate and provide it to the world forever.

And somehow I have this, you know, thinking that somehow I could screw it up forever too. So I'm very, very concerned and thoughtful about how do we do this? How do we continue to take what's made EOS special and continue to hone and refine it? and experiment and do things that we've never done before, but to honor the basic premise that had always been EOS.

And I just think that that is so cool. So all along the way, sure, there are pivotal moments where there's things you can control and things you can't control. So as an example with COVID couldn't not control the situation, right? We're a hundred percent in person company for events. You know, where we do training events and whatnot, and that couldn't happen.

So we literally had 90% of our revenues in jeopardy overnight. So pretty terrifying moment. And so we take a deep breath and then we say, okay, well, we can't control everything, but what can we do? What can we do to provide for our implementers, provide for our teams, provide for companies who are struggling and suffering with,

The pandemic, just like the rest of us, just not quite knowing how to keep our feet underneath ourselves and continue to move the ball down the court with such a, you know, just a really difficult situation. So, that was a moment to say, okay, well, how can we just help first it's where we leaned in on our core values so be humbly confident.

Grow or die, help first do the right thing. Do what you say. Leaning on those core values in those moments to see our way through the tunnel and get get to the light is really helpful. We had a situation where our business model was being threatened, and so we could not continue as a membership model.

And so the thing that we needed to do to protect it and preserve it forever was to make it into a franchise model. And so that was also terrifying because. Some people love franchise. Some people doubt. Our community was very accustomed. We have 400 U. S. implementers accustomed to the way that we had always done business and threatened the security of what they had always relied upon is, is U.

S. And so, you know, it was Mark O'Donnell. Visionary of EOS and myself, actually at the time, Mark wasn't even a visionary. He was our head coach, but we teamed up along with, with the, influencer community and just figured out how do we row together to get through this franchise. And so that was a terrifying moment too, because again, the entire model was being threatened.

And so how do we protect that and put a wrapper around that forever? So there's just pivotal moments all throughout the journey where. You think it could completely crumble the business and it could have, if not for really good people, both on the EOS Worldwide team and also in our EOS Implementer community to just say, nope, that's okay, we're just going to stack hands and we're going to figure out how to get through it.

And then, of course, we had, the Firefly group. That, just five years ago, May 11th, 2018, is when we officially became partners. And so they've been really supportive and just really great. I can't even say enough, you know, private equity gets a really bad rap sometimes, but you have to look at the individuals behind the work.

And so, they've been, you know, as good a partner as anybody could be. So.

Tiffany Sauder: I want to go back to, just revisiting this, like, switch from membership entity to a franchise. I'll just say big strategic shot that you've got to like shoot as an, as a executive.

We've got these moments in our journeys where you kind of know there's no way to really test this. Like I gotta, I gotta shoot my shot. And once the bullets out of the gun, I don't know that I can stuff the, you know, gunpowder back into it. Like there's probably no going back.

Kelly Knight: Yes.

Tiffany Sauder: I've, I'm, you know, as you're involved in different organizations or you're involved in things for long enough, you start to realize there's these moments where. The leadership team has to shoot their shot. You're going to have to make a big call. I don't totally even know my question, but can you walk me through, again, it's not about the mechanics of like that decision in particular, but here's how we got to the place where we're like, we know we've got to move forward with this.

You are then on the edge and you actually have to jump. And then there's like some people, no matter what, that are going to be pissed off, it's just like, and how do you sort through the grumpy fog to figure out what's real and what's just a reaction? is there anything in there you can pick through for me that might be helpful to myself and listeners?

Kelly Knight: Sure. And I'm going to give it my best shot at that. So, you know, we have a guiding north star at EOS, and it's really important to hold onto with all your might if you believe in it. And that is what we call our VTO, which stands for Vision Traction Organizer. It's a, it's a simplified two page business plan for those who might not be familiar with it, but it really lays out.

The core values that I mentioned in the core focus and. The core focus is really what you mean to the world, your purpose, cause, and passion, which for us is helping entrepreneurs live their ideal lives. And we had a core target somewhere we wanted to go, you know, 10, 000 companies running on us by 2020.

Now, it's, uh, it's been 100, 000 companies running on us by 2030. Now it's a million companies running on us, right? So we keep adding zeros. Um, and then we have a marketing strategy and all these things that went into this business plan. And so when. The premise of what makes you special, meaning our community of implementers.

And I really believe at the heart of hearts, our implementers are the everything to what we do, and also companies running at EOS, when you are so dedicated to protecting and preserving and perpetuating what makes whatever you do in business special. It puts so much more into your thought and the risk taking you're willing to do because you're willing to protect it at all costs or to grow it at all costs.

So anyway, our vision traction organizer was really our North star that was like, Oh no, we are not going down over this, right? We are going to figure this out. We're going to get beyond it. And so we rally the troops. We really do. We go to our implementer community and say, very vulnerably, very authentically, we can't do this without you.

We need you. We need. Their advocacy, their buy in, their belief, and it's only born out of the love and the care and the abundance mindset that we have that with our community. If we ever jeopardize that, that's the beginning of the end. But fortunately, 82% of U. S. implementers who were here at the time.

Decided to come with us on this journey of going from membership to franchise, but make no mistake. That was not our win of the U. S. worldwide. I mean, it ultimately was, but it was only born out of the. Really the grace and the love and the kindness and the grit and the determination and all that that was our implementer community to really be partnered with us in that.

So, you know, that's really what makes it possible is it's always the who's that makes the difficult things possible. It is any given situation. If you really go to the root of it, as much as AI and chat, GPT, and all of that is really, really cool. And it's awesome tool. And it's. It's game changing, but at the end of the day, we're all in the people business.

So it has to come back to the people first. I hope that's true forever. I don't know one of these days someone will play this back and say, was that funny how that Kelly Knight, the integrator of EOS Worldwide thought people were at the center, but I hope that's never the case. But. That's kind of what I would say about that situation.

It was just purely born out of people who love EOS as much as Mark O'Donnell and myself and the leadership team and the whole team at EOS do, and they just were willing to get in and row the boat with us, that was it.

Tiffany Sauder: when you're under stress. Are there parts of you like strengths that start to like overtake you like when I'm under stress, I can even more ideas come and it distracts. I over perform that area of myself when you're under stress. Are there things that are strengths of yours that start to.

Get in your way or have you learned how to manage that?

Kelly Knight: Well, you manage it as best you can very imperfectly. I feel

Tiffany Sauder: I know with a team of people screaming at you. Yeah

Kelly Knight: I think when I'm overly done, I'm just overdone, but I'm compelled to keep moving forward. The thing that I do is I go into this, like, planning mode, and I'm really trying to get stakeholders buy in. Right? So I'll ask. Keep people with their thoughts and their ideas are about it. I'm trying to harness that human energy, which is good, but it can also turn to be, you know, at a certain point as a leader, you just have to make the call.

You just have to move. So, you know, I think there's always that balance. You want to gain the acceptance, the buy in, the support, the input of stakeholders, but at a certain point leaders just lead, so always a

Tiffany Sauder: Am I doing this to distract myself from the decision I need to make or is this actually a productive exercise? Yeah

Kelly Knight: Right. Well, and I love talking to people and our stakeholders. So that's something I love, right? So you're drawn to the thing that you love and you enjoy that can also become the distraction to keep you from doing the thing you need to just go do. But I would say that would be one example.

Tiffany Sauder: Uh, so I want to change gears. You had a near, like, actual near death experience, like, almost two years ago now. Is that right? Um,

Kelly Knight: on Mount Whitney.

Tiffany Sauder: So I heard about secondhand, bringing listeners up to speed. And then I also just want to hear how that's impressed on your life, just the impact that had on you.

Kelly Knight: Yeah, so David Mann and Mark Snyder and Derek from Firefly had organized this training, like we're training in advance to go hike Mount Whitney, which is one of the highest mountains in the contiguous United States and Southern California. And so we set off nine months in to do a training plan.

And there were different members of different portfolio companies who were joining them. And so there were about 10 of us total and we're all training and we have our calls and there's the training plan and eating and how you pack and all the things you need to know right all the things and we're doing them and we have our check in calls and all of that and then we get to Southern California and we get in like a day or two in advance.

And so we're acclimating a little bit and getting ready to go. And sure enough. So the day of we are very early in the morning and we set off to what we think is going to be maybe 12 to 16 hour day and we're hiking and all of a sudden I begin to get a headache, but that's not unusual for me. I'll sometimes get migraines and whatnot.

So I pop my medicine and I had taken all the medications that they had given for AMS, so altitude sickness, basically, to prevent altitude sickness. I was taking them days in advance, and for some odd reason, I was really obsessed about this in advance. I'm like, I want to make sure I have the right medications for this.

I take them all in advance, as exactly as prescribed. I don't know why. I think I was the only one at a time when it was maybe that neurotic about it, but there I was. So, again, following the plan. And there we go. I get a headache. I take my stuff. We keep going. Well, to make a very long story short, I end up getting AMS, but we keep hiking, right?

Like, we didn't know necessarily at first that it was AMS, but we keep hiking and somehow, and I'm slow, like, at a certain point going up the mountain because it is debilitating.

Tiffany Sauder: What did it feel like to you? Yeah.

Kelly Knight: Well, I mean, it starts off again as a headache and then, you know, you feel pressure, but then what happens is your brain actually isn't functioning normally.

It's irrational. You begin to think that you can do things you can't do and that you can continue hiking. As an example, when you have no business hiking, you need to turn around and go back down because the only thing that will cure that is to get out of the elevation, right? It's the elevation as you climb.

So it only gets worse. So the more you go up, the worse it gets. But yet, the ten of us keep hiking, you know, just keep going because this is what we do. This is what we do. Yeah. So again, we get eventually to the top and by this point I'm vomiting,

Tiffany Sauder: you made it all the way to the top. Oh

Kelly Knight: Well, we summited. Yeah, we, we made it all the way to the summit, but by the time we make it there, I'm vomiting and I'm really like quite bad shape.

Then we got to get down.

Tiffany Sauder: my word.

Kelly Knight: So, um, you know, what I can say, Tiffany, is that 1st of all, you know, when you're doing these things, you have to acknowledge the limitations of whatever it is that you're doing, whatever the hike or the adventure, like, you have to know when the right time is to turn back and. Yeah.

So we were up there and we're making my way down, but I mean, I am getting worse and worse and worse, right? Because I'm far beyond where I should be in terms of altitude. So ultimately a helicopter ends up rescuing me off the mountain and there's only two places.

I'm not a mountain that you can be rescued. We thought we were gonna have one spot. We've got these, you know, communicators because cell phone does not work at altitude. And so I end up getting rescued, which is a miracle because in a situation like that, the likelihood is that I would have died on that mountain and I would have probably sacrificed other people trying to save me, getting me down.

Fortunately, everybody ended up being safe, but. You know, the thing was, is I really was traumatized

Tiffany Sauder: Did you know in that moment? This is that serious? Like, when

Kelly Knight: I did, did eventually, I did eventually, but, you know, by the time it's that bad, the person who is impacted with AMS is really, really out of it. Like I would become into it and then I'd be out of it. Meaning I'd be cognizant and then I wouldn't. Then we're trying to hike down and then I'd have to stop and I would be vomiting or whatever.

You know, it was just. So it was completely debilitating. I mean, they were, you know, at one point somebody's carrying my pack because that's how bad it was. And I was half being carried down the mountain. I mean, you're talking, you know, 22 and a half miles from the top all the way down. So, I mean, this is not an easy rodeo.

It's not like just a couple of miles. So. It is truly a miracle that it ended as positively as it did, but the lessons learned were plentiful. I mean, I actually wrote about it because by the time we were done, the prevailing question I had for myself is how often do you do this to other people? Meaning put them in jeopardy of their life to save your life because you're so dedicated or we as a group together collectively, we were all dedicated to Oh, no, we're all making it to the top and we're all making it down what we did, but I mean, there was a lot of risk and sacrifice that.

You know, and just really candidly, it's just very dangerous, um, that way. So you apply it to your life. You say, how often do I do this to my family? How often do I do this to the people who work with me or for me? Um, that at all costs, we take risks and that born out of that is a ton of sacrifice and maybe pain and.

And, uh, you know, really terrible outcome. So that was really tough. I actually had to go back. Not a bad thing, but had to go back to my leadership coach and just say, okay. We got to go back here because I need to make sure that, you know, however, I might be applying this in my life, that this is how it showed up here.

And so what does that say about me as a leader and a manager? And how do I do that? Better? yeah, it was like, I had to really process that whole thing because you take what you've learned and you say, what does this say about me? And how does, how does this play itself out in ways that I can't even imagine?

Because it's not really just about the hike up Mount Whitney.

Tiffany Sauder: Do you feel like you're able to, uh, do you feel like in the last couple of years, there's been moments where your pre Mount Whitney self would have said, we're going to keep driving. We're going to push through the pain. And now you're more in tune to say like. The risk is not worth the shot, or is it just more consciousness of it?

Kelly Knight: Yeah, I think I would describe it as discernment and judgment really ties into it. So, you know, you're discerning what is good risk and acceptable risk versus unacceptable, scary, devastating risk. And also just how am I showing up as a leader and listening and being apathetic to other people and their points of view?

I think there's just this incredible. combination as a leader that you lead with love and compassion and generosity and caring. And then on the other side, there's that grit, determination, drive, and it's the and between the two that has to be in just perfect harmony. That's what makes leading, managing, and holding accountable such an art because it's written about in the books.

but there's the artistic side of how You show up that really matters. And so you've got to kind of go back and re engineer a little bit. Sometimes, Ooh, that looks scary to me. I'm not sure that I'm showing up as a leader, the way that I want to. And am I being the best version of myself?

Am I showing up the way that I need to for my team? Or am I the one who's actually creating chaos and the work that's being done? You know, I feel responsible that when I send people home at night, that they feel like they lead a great life. So that's the tough part, right? You got to kind of like decompress and digest that.

And it's, there's some harsh truths sometimes that you've got to really put in place to come back and say, how am I going to use this as a springboard to become the next best version of myself as a leader and a manager for the, for the greater good.

Tiffany Sauder: you talk about, like. Giving like, just a discernment, this juxtaposition of grit and grace. I'll use those as kind of the headlines. Is there 1 that is more natural for you? Or do you code switch? Pretty seamlessly.

Kelly Knight: Well, you know, the better question would be to ask my people that I'd like to think code switch pretty well. But, um, the truth is, is probably some days I show up and I'm heavier on grit and some days and I'm a little more filled with grace. Um, but I'm aware that's an awareness thing. I think for leaders is to say, look, this is the way that I want to show up and and also.

Looking in the mirror and asking people, how do I really show up so you can compare is what I really want to how I am, and getting that feedback. So. In the EOS world, certainly we ask for feedback all the time, but we use it also in the form of quarterly conversations. That's the one time per quarter where you're sitting in front of someone who, for whom works for you and with you, and you're at, and you're giving feedback, and you're also receiving that feedback too to really say, Hmm, am I on track or off track?

And those are gold for me. That is where I get the most and best feedback. out of my team, and I so appreciate it because they make me a better version of myself. So, and I hope I do the same for them, but truth be told, Tiffany, there's some days it's never a perfect balance. One side's going to look like one side's the other, and there are days I sit back and reflect and I could have been more graceful today.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, but you're so self aware. sometimes it's your own day. It's like, this is an urgent, this is an efficient day. And so I'm filled with more grit because I just need to be efficient with everybody. I suspect you're. Very good at looping back and being like, maybe I didn't handle that as, as well as I could have, if I had to do over,

Kelly Knight: that's, that's always the goal, but imperfectly perfect. So,

Tiffany Sauder: um, well, I want to end with a couple of personal things if we can. I talk about a life of, and, we just talked about leading with both grit and grace, but you're a mom, you're a, and you're a wife, you know, and you're a president and you've got other things that you do in life. Are there hacks or.

Tips that you found in your own life that help you, um, be present, not only for those things that need you, but those things that you want to do in your life.

Kelly Knight: Hmm. Yeah, that's a really good question. Yeah, I try to really reflect and think about the things that I've been proud of that I would do over again as a mom or a wife or a daughter or a friend or whatever. The things that I am really most proud of that I can take with me and repeat again in the future and the things that I would go back and change.

And that provides grounding to look backwards in order to look forward. So. I try to be more forward looking than backward looking, but looking in the rear view mirror really is helpful in that regard. And so, I would say that's the biggest hack is to sometimes say, Hmm, what are the things that I'm most proud of?

And I will go back, even through my iPhone, and look at pictures and say, I just did this, actually. I just did this yesterday. And I went back years and just kind of took a smattering of pictures and I'm like, Those make me feel proud of the things that I was able to do for my family. And then there's times that I look back, I'm like, Oh, there's a gap there.

I could, you know, so it's just whatever it is that grounds you sort of in what worked in the past that takes you into the future. But, um. Yeah, I think it's just being intentional, just being really intentional. I try to show up for the things that matter most for each of my kids and to think of them as of course what they are, which are individuals and they all need something different from me.

Something very different. They grew up in the same house with the same parents and yet they're all three of them very, very different humans. So I try to think about, you know, what do they each need and a little more thoughtful to you today about how I show up for my husband. You know, there were years ago when I had three little kids and I'm like, there were times that I was gone and that must have been really hard for him because he was holding down the fort.

So I've, I've learned some things over the years that how do I just being intentional about how I show up, what that really means for the people surrounding me and less so about me. It's really about how do I show up for them.

Tiffany Sauder: that's where I was going to go next was like, how do you and your husband stay connected? Because I've been married almost 20 years and it's a relationship that you, I didn't understand that it too would evolve with life. Like it seems obvious now, but it evolves and knowing how they're changing, how you're changing, how in relationship to one another, your relationship is changing, are the things you guys have found helps keep that relationship healthy and alive and intentional?

Kelly Knight: Yeah, it's just being intentional. I mean, it really is. It's being thoughtful about it. There were times and years that I look back and I think, Oh, I. There were times I put the kids first, where I put my career first, and he might have shown up a little lower in the list, and I tried really, really hard, and we worked through it.

It's just how do I make sure that I'm staying connected to him and the things that matter most to him. So there's, everybody's got a love language. There's a figuring out what is his love language and what is mine. And making sure that we're making those attempts to make those happen and having getaways and times to just go out for date night and it's just planning it.

It's, it's kind of in some ways fairly practical.

Tiffany Sauder: I know it's so practical. Yeah.

Kelly Knight: you know, but, but sometimes when you're earlier in on your marriage or you're having kids and you're not realizing that the matrix is changing as much as it is. And suddenly you wake up one day and you're like, Whoa, this is way out of whack. We have to hit the reset button and kind of get things practically lined up so that our lives are more in alignment than they are disjointed.

So.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

Kelly Knight: Let me just say it's just interesting connected. Like we just talk about it more, you know, so if something's feeling out of whack, I can go to Tim or he will come to me and say, Hey, I'm not feeling connected right now. Or I feel like we've not had time together. And so when we do plan, but maybe fall short.

where life throws us a curveball. We're more open and honest but in a kind way. I think that maybe years past when it would be like we'd be disgruntled or something, we've had to work through that, I

Tiffany Sauder: Do you use any of the e o s tools in your household, like quarterly check-ins or weekly lta? I mean, it feels so administrative to call it that inside a house, but about alignment, hygiene, you know, relationship hygiene. I've just found, I'm like, there's so many clues inside of this for my life.

It's not just a business thing.

Kelly Knight: 100% Tiffany. So using there's a personal VTO. So just like there's a business action organizer, there is a version of this for your person and your family. So that is very helpful. And then, um, as crazy as this sounds, IDS, identify, discuss and solve issues. My goodness, I really wasn't solving issues well at the root.

So Learning how to IDS once I came into EOS and learning some of the strategies, it's very much applies to personal relationships. And so where you might, discuss an issue would be more surface level, right? You're only putting a bandaid on it or temporarily solving it. EOS has really taught me to just go deep to get to that true route and solve it not temporarily, but solve it forever.

there actually is a lot of relational components. To this plan itself, it turns into a family plan. So, yeah, I encourage those that might be listening and aren't familiar with it, there we have it available. So, please definitely, um, check it out and download it and try it at home. So,

Tiffany Sauder: right, last question and then we'll tell people where they can get more information on EOS and connect with you. Um, do your 24 year old self, if you could go back and give your 24 year old self a piece of advice, what would it be? Um,

Kelly Knight: Yeah, I would say it's one step at a time. Like just breathe in and breathe out and take one step at a time and be a curious learner and explore and try and innovate. And love and fail and try again and fail, and just like, enjoy the journey. Because if you just take one step at a time, all the right things are going to happen.

All great things are born out of faith of just taking that next step. So rather than be like afraid that it was the wrong step or that I'm making the wrong decision or a choice and kind of some of that perfectionist mentality I might have had. And still it rears its ugly head from time to time. Bye. If I could have calmed that down a little bit, I think my 24 year old self would have probably thrived even more and been able to spread those wings and fly.

Tiffany Sauder: That's awesome advice. Um, Kelly, if people are interested in learning more about us, where's the best place for them to go? This is made a huge impact on my life and my business and my family and all the things I touch. So, uh, where can they learn more about us?

Kelly Knight: I love that, Tiffany. Um, EOSworldwide. com, all things there, lots of resources and tools and helpful things there. We've got some great campaigns coming out this year. Strong in Six is coming out this year. That's the six key components of EOS. And then We Run on EOS is also. pretty exciting. So the impact that us is making in the world, we'd love to feature organizations that are having success and what a difference they're making in the world.

So please check all of that out there at us worldwide. com. And for me, I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter. And so we'd love to have you. Connect with me there

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. We'll put links in our show notes and Kelly, if they are looking to hire an implementer, there's a directory on the EOS website as well. Is that correct?

Kelly Knight: Yes, indeed. And we've got, you know, 650 incredible us implementers that are here to help you all over the world. So please do check that out. There's a directory as you say, right on the main page, upper menu, um, us implementer directory, check them out there. They are some of the best people you will ever find on the face of the planet.

They really are.

Tiffany Sauder: Well, Kelly, thanks for joining me. You are a, I think a special combination of strength and humanity and um, there's many close and far away from you that really look up to you. So thanks for sharing a little bit of your story and some of your secret sauce with us.

Kelly Knight: Well, it is a pleasure to be with you, and you made such a difference, with everyone at the EOS conference and afterwards, people who are playing back what you had to say. I mean, definitely a proven highlight from the conference this year. So thank you for sharing your journey and your story with us. We are super grateful and to EOS community. Thank you for all you do.

Tiffany Sauder: Thanks Kelly. Thanks so much.

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