Navigating 19 years of marriage with intentionality

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:00]:Hey, it's Tiffany. If you've been listening to the show for a while and find yourself thinking, geez, I wish there was more good news. You can sign up for my newsletter. It's filled with my favorite products, recipes, tips, and stories to help encourage you as you build your life of. And the link is waiting for you in show notes. See you there. I think the more we can just be grown ups, catch ourselves in reactions, and be like, this is petty behavior. I don't know why I'm acting like this, so I just need to excuse myself.

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:30]:Like, in calling ourselves out on, like, you're throwing a tantrum like a child right now and I need to stop. I think that will even just, like, speed up the velocity of problem solving. I think things will not get as big, and there's more closeness and intimacy in our marriage and relationship and household. And, like, only good things come from that. I'm a small town kid born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy, and ever since, my husband, JR, and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline.

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:11]:Yep, that means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world, and I want that for you, too. I'm Tiffany Sauder, and this is scared, confident. I love this episode. Every year it is when my husband joins me and we talk, kind of reflect on the last year of our marriage. So, April's our anniversary, and so every year, I have him jump on the podcast with me, and I share with him our marriage checkup. So it's a document that has, like, seven or eight questions on it, and we answer it individually and then live on the microphone, compare our answers and share what we've learned in our marriage in the last year. This is like, the second or third year we've done, maybe the third year we've done this.

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:02]:And it's just such a, like, I don't know, special exercise of, like, intentional reflection. And I hope that you not only listen to our story, but take a chance to, like, take stock in your own marriage. Once a year, we share the marriage checkup sheet. We'll put it in show notes. So if you want that, please take a look. I always at start the episode with asking both of us, on a scale of one to ten, where would you rate our marriage and spoiler alert. I said nine, and he said six. So you can listen into the episode to see if and how that was resolved.

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:34]:So here we go. One of us is happy. One of us is not. Babe, thanks for joining me.

JR Sauder [00:02:44]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:45]:Every year for around our anniversary, I have you come record a podcast episode with me, and I think it forces some thoughtful reflection on the past year, how we've grown, and maybe set some expectations for the following year. So we're gonna do it again.

JR Sauder [00:02:58]:Yeah. I like it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:03:00]:So I'm gonna use the same check in that we used last time. And so if those listening did not listen to the last one, which is fine. Last April, we did it. There are seven questions.

JR Sauder [00:03:10]:And.

Tiffany Sauder [00:03:10]:And I printed off two separate sheets for us to fill them out independently.

JR Sauder [00:03:14]:Yep.

Tiffany Sauder [00:03:14]:And I have not seen your answers, and you have not seen mine. And we're gonna do this grand reveal on the microphone and seek to better understand where you're coming from. What do we learn? How do we get better? So we're celebrating 19 years, which is crazy.

JR Sauder [00:03:29]:We don't feel that old.

Tiffany Sauder [00:03:30]:I know. How do you feel about the number? Actually?

JR Sauder [00:03:33]:Yeah. I feel like in some ways, it's gone so fast, which is what everyone tells you, and I'd say the last, like, five years have gone even faster than the previous 14. So I don't know. It's part of your kids getting busier work, what you have going on in your own lives. But that's what I reflected on was just how fast I feel like the last five years have gone. Like your late thirties and early forties. Days and years seem to go fast.

Tiffany Sauder [00:04:00]:I think the word that comes to mind for me is I feel really proud of it. I think that as you get older, when you hear of people celebrating 43 years of marriage or 37 or whatever it is, you're like that, I guess, a kid. I don't know. You're like, okay, I don't know. I just sailed past and have a lot of appreciation for that. And it's like, I better appreciate the intention and work and forgiveness and grace and all the things that comes with the blessing of an anniversary. That has a big number.

JR Sauder [00:04:30]:Yeah, it's a good point. You think about it, and when you're younger, it's just a number. Like, you don't think about what goes into the number.

Tiffany Sauder [00:04:37]:Yeah, totally. You'll think about. So anyway, that was. I'm like, I feel very proud of it. So. Okay, quick orientation for people listening. I always say I feel like change creates tension because everything starts to shift and move and, like, not work anymore. And so as we think about the last year, let's recap for ourselves and for people listening, like, what change has taken place in our lives in the last twelve months.

JR Sauder [00:05:01]:Yeah. So in our lives. I'll start with my work life has gotten busier. Our company's basically doubled. So that has created additional workload. Team continues to get built out. So that's all good, but it has added time and stress and time away for me. So that's one thing that has changed.

JR Sauder [00:05:24]:High schooler has been added in just different schedules. We have four kids at four different schools this year. I know that's something you've talked about on the podcast before until you experience that, but maybe back to the anniversaries. Like, it seems like a number for it, for it, but logistically, it is a whole different level than anything I think you or I have dealt with previously. I mean, with our own schedules filling up and the kids being at four different schools, it's a lot. And so that's something that is new. Your flexibility just to kind of where you have, like, really almost 100% control. I'll say 90% control over your calendar and schedule is something that has changed this year.

JR Sauder [00:06:04]:And, you know, you. And we've been building towards that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:07]:Yeah, I was gonna say that was a very intentional choice.

JR Sauder [00:06:09]:Been putting systems in place to get there, and it probably started last year, really? But this is maybe the first full year where that's happening. And you can truly dictate what's happening 90% of the time.

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:22]:Yeah, and one of the big things that fits in that 10% that I can't control is outside boards.

JR Sauder [00:06:27]:Yes.

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:28]:And I'm rolling off of those. All of them. I'll be done with all of them by the end of the year. In part because of that, I don't expect to be able to set the dates for everything that that's fine, but we did make that choice a couple of years ago, right. That we saw some of this coming. We understood what that was probably gonna require of you. We knew the kids were this far apart in age. Like, we knew all this stuff was coming.

Tiffany Sauder [00:06:52]:And I think that is actually. I don't know that I put this on my paper, but I think that's where we're getting better at having foresight about what capacity do we need to create to be able to do what's coming in a way that fits how we want our family to look and how we want our lives to look. Don't you think?

JR Sauder [00:07:10]:Well, I answered that, I think, for two of the questions that you asked. I answered, oh, yeah, pretty much the same answer.

Tiffany Sauder [00:07:13]:Okay, well, we'll go into the thing.

JR Sauder [00:07:15]:Good alignment there. Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:07:17]:I think that fits in what I keep talking about, though, with this idea of a life of. And you have to have the discipline of looking forward. And I think that's always been very natural for you. Not so much for me. I'm very like, what's the day? How do I more slay? The day is more my energy, my to do list. I think I've gained the ability to come up and look at things, but that is not naturally where I start.

JR Sauder [00:07:41]:Right.

Tiffany Sauder [00:07:42]:So being here is not an accident where I have an enormous amount of flexibility in my schedule and all the things I'm engaged in, I can do very dynamically, meaning I can take phone calls when I'm driving kids to school, I can be texting while I'm lifting in the morning. Like, I'm just constantly keeping things moving. And my life is more blended together than it's ever been, which I love. Works great for me.

JR Sauder [00:08:07]:Yeah. I would say you get a lot done, and now it's done more on your schedule versus I would say you always were high functioning, getting a lot done, but maybe you were all over the place in a way that now you can be slightly more controlled.

Tiffany Sauder [00:08:21]:Yeah, that's right. Okay, so that's orientation. So let's get into the questions here.

JR Sauder [00:08:26]:Did you have anything new that I missed, or were those on your.

Tiffany Sauder [00:08:28]:No, I think that there is new stuff, but there's not seismic shifts in the sense of, like, I think the biggest thing last year was Ainsley starting travel volleyball. I had no conscious about the time understanding of what that was going to be. And I think this year I had that same naivety with Aubrey starting high school swim and, like, needing to be the school early. I mean, I was like, doop to do. Just have no idea. So I kind of have these, like, mack truck moments where I'm like, my brain breaks and then we refigure out, like, how we're going to do it.

JR Sauder [00:09:06]:Yeah, no, it's.

Tiffany Sauder [00:09:08]:I feel like you're like, yeah, that's what I said. I was like, no, I didn't. I didn't get it. So. Okay. I think those are the major changes. Last year, I said Quincy had gone to daycare and we didn't have an Annie. We're back to a nanny.

JR Sauder [00:09:20]:Yes.

Tiffany Sauder [00:09:21]:That works better for us. She goes to preschool two days a week, and then she's home with an nanny three days a week, it just works better.

JR Sauder [00:09:26]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:09:26]:Anyways, scale of one to ten, where would you put our marriage right now? Ten is the best ever.

JR Sauder [00:09:30]:I just saw your answer, which. Oh, no, I said six, but I wanted to explain it because it's. It's not a six for any reason other than I haven't been around a lot the first three months, we'll say, of this year. So I was saying, based on last year and what, I rated a seven last year, and I'm like, I just haven't been able to, like, be as intentional, I think, with our marriage and stuff. So that's why I'm like, I can't rate it as high as I did last year because my schedule hasn't allowed for that. But I also want to say, I think in previous times, like, say this is in year seven of our marriage when we're doing this, or year eight, maybe, versus year 19, that number probably would have been a three. Like, if I'm reflective of where it was to what is in place now, it's a six. I know it needs to get better.

JR Sauder [00:10:19]:I think there are pieces in place where it will. We're about to go on a family vacation. Typically, coming out of that, our marriage is at a better place, and we just have time to be together for ourselves, but also with family and in this case, some friends, too. So that's coming. I just was, like, reflecting on the first three months this year versus what it looked like last year, and I was like, uh. I don't know. So that's why it's a six, not anything, like big. I was thinking at a point in time versus, like, the year as a whole, maybe.

Tiffany Sauder [00:10:46]:Sure. Are you holding yourself accountable in that six for feeling some level of, like. I don't know if the word is guilt, but, like, kind of behind in deposits into me in our relationship. Is that more. It is, or you're like, no, I actually feel disconnected from you right now?

JR Sauder [00:11:03]:No, no. It's like the number of date nights that I would have preferred to have at this point in the year versus what has actually happened.

Tiffany Sauder [00:11:10]:See, that feels like not even a realistic expectation to me.

JR Sauder [00:11:15]:I think based on everything that's happened, it wasn't a realistic expectation, but it was my expectation, I guess leaving Portugal with you and thinking through what could happen, I think, per month, our own goals. And you talk a lot about setting minimums, I would say the minimums for this first quarter. And maybe that just needs to be something that we talk about in the future is the minimums for first quarter of what we can expect from each other is just a little bit lower than what the rest of the year will look like.

Tiffany Sauder [00:11:46]:Well, I actually think that's a to do coming out of this. Cause we don't. I could not define to myself what our minimum is. I would say. Well, actually, I have said I think our minimum is that one trip a year for at least four nights away. To me, that's the, like, I don't know. I have to, like, take it as it comes with your travel schedule. Like, it can't have expectations otherwise.

Tiffany Sauder [00:12:06]:I'm on this, like, lumpy road of just. Of expectations, which is just not productive.

JR Sauder [00:12:11]:Right.

Tiffany Sauder [00:12:12]:So I think that's something we should talk about if we wanna have minimums.

JR Sauder [00:12:15]:Outside of, like, monthly minimums.

Tiffany Sauder [00:12:18]:Whatever you want it to be.

JR Sauder [00:12:19]:Okay.

Tiffany Sauder [00:12:20]:Like, last year I gave it an eight. I gave it a nine, which is, again, somewhat indicative of our perspective. And I said this last year, too, that, like, I probably feel just more connected to home. Cause I'm there a lot more. I'm with the kids. I'm, like, in the space. But I feel like we're able to maintain a pretty similar level of engagement and, like, health in our marriage, whether you're home or away. And that used to feel much more like, when he's away, I get really independent.

Tiffany Sauder [00:12:52]:We're not good at reintegrating. I would just get kind of annoyed. You would, like, in my worldview over discipline on something and then that would piss me off and then that would remind me. You haven't even been here for eight days. It was more this, like, I felt like it was seasons of, like, we're locked in and then, like, oh, shit, we're not. And, like, we gotta work to get back aligned. And, like, that just takes a lot of energy in a relationship. And I don't feel like that now.

Tiffany Sauder [00:13:19]:It feels more consistent. I don't know how you feel.

JR Sauder [00:13:22]:Yeah, I would say that I would. Maybe it's. You don't. You never wanna get better at, like, leaving and coming back, but maybe it's part of that, too, or in awareness. Cause we. I've gone through it and we've.

Tiffany Sauder [00:13:31]:I think you have to get better. It is a huge part of our life.

JR Sauder [00:13:35]:Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is. And with the kids being at different stages, you can stay a little bit more plugged in with each of them.

Tiffany Sauder [00:13:42]:Yeah. Because you text with them individually.

JR Sauder [00:13:44]:Right. And kind of know what's going on or where they are versus feeling like you've been gone for, whatever, four days, and you don't know where anybody is, and you want to relax because you've been gone. But everybody needs to tell you their most important thing of what has happened. And now it's. The communication is just better all across the board.

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:00]:What would make it a seven or an eight for you?

JR Sauder [00:14:04]:To me, it's like I just reflected on past events, and I think if we could have had more one on one time, that would have bumped it up, because I think you're correct on just overall communication and feeling and stability of home and all that. Agreed. Six is not an indicative number of where that is. I was just, again, thinking back to relative involvement for me, in terms of what I can provide to you and to the girls.

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:29]:Yeah, sounds good. Okay. I'm gonna have us do this, though. Set our minimum.

JR Sauder [00:14:33]:Okay.

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:34]:I think that's good. Then we have something to manage to. Cause I'm just like. I don't know. I'm not expecting anything that's a low minimum. Well, it is, but it's like, it's the safest one, right?

JR Sauder [00:14:43]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:43]:I'm just being real. You know what I mean?

JR Sauder [00:14:45]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:46]:Yeah, it is. Okay. Two words that summarize how our marriage feels to you right now. Oh, I'm so curious. Cause I feel like we're off on the numbers.

JR Sauder [00:14:56]:Oh, okay. Cause this one, I did say I felt we're very supportive of each other right now. So supportive was one of the words that I used that we work really hard to pick each other up. And I think both are pretty intentional of, like, hey, I know this would be a bigger deal for you to be home, versus I'm thinking back to, like, when Aubrey had her swim meet, and there was just a lot going on over that week that you need to do with your course and had a trip coming up, and, you know, it was really important for you to be home. I had been all over the place, and I did not really want to spend 18 hours of a weekend in Crawfordsville, Indiana, but I got to, and I knew that that was better for, like, 28 hours.

Tiffany Sauder [00:15:39]:It was a lot.

JR Sauder [00:15:40]:It was a lot. I knew that was better for our family and could work through that. And so I just feel like that that's one example, and you've done countless examples for me, I think, over the last six months, even where you've been really supportive of my schedule and some last minute changes, and that was the first word that came to mind for me.

Tiffany Sauder [00:15:58]:So what was the word again? Supportive.

JR Sauder [00:15:59]:Supportive.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:00]:Yeah. That was a good one. Did you have any other words?

JR Sauder [00:16:02]:Well, I just.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:03]:It's okay if you don't. That was a good one.

JR Sauder [00:16:05]:No, I said team, which is, I think we used last year as well, but I still feel that way. I still think that that's maybe one of the key words in our marriage when things are good.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:15]:Yeah.

JR Sauder [00:16:15]:That it's a team and it aligns a little bit to supportive, but I wanted to call out.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:20]:I think it's an anchoring orientation for us where a team. This idea of, like, it's important for me to feel like I'm an equal with you.

JR Sauder [00:16:28]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:28]:I get very mad when I feel like you don't mean to. Not respect, but I think that's so.

JR Sauder [00:16:34]:Yeah. I was thinking about it as, like, having defined roles, like, for the team, and right now I feel like we're very good about communicating what's going on and then, like, our roles and what each other can do. So that's where my mind went with that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:49]:Yeah. I wrote, like, we're both really in our strengths when using the team analogy. I think we know we can run different plays, and I think we're better at understanding what the day calls for or what the season calls for without it being this big dramatic thing. So I wrote certain, and I think for me, it goes back to what I was saying a little bit earlier of this idea of, like, when we are not good at communicating while you're away and we're not good at when you leave us feeling like our marriage is in a good spot and integration is hard. That is an exhausting rollercoaster for me of where are things, what I need to do. Like, that's a lot for me. And I feel like it's been a pretty steady note in a good way. When you come home, I feel like I know where you're going to be when you leave.

Tiffany Sauder [00:17:32]:I don't feel like there's anything left unsaid or unresolved. Like, it just feels like very. Like a game of ping pong where it's just like sometimes he's here on one side of the and one, sometimes he's not. But it's like our relationship isn't following the ball. You know what I mean?

JR Sauder [00:17:49]:No, it makes sense to me. I hope it makes sense to everybody else.

Tiffany Sauder [00:17:51]:Well, it doesn't matter. Yeah, but. Because they're just listening to our conversation. But that has been a big thing. And I wrote the word full. I think we're both operating in our strengths, and I think as we've matured as leaders and matured in our understanding of ourselves. I know when to pull you into my world, and I'll say, like, hey, I really need your brain on this tonight with me. I need to make a big decision.

Tiffany Sauder [00:18:14]:And I think you're just gonna have questions of this situation that I don't know to ask. And there's things that, like, you'll work on and, like comms or whatever, and you're like, hey, I just. I need your abilities over here. And I think that's, like, fun to feel like we can play and contribute in one another's world. And, like, I don't know your business per se, but I feel like I have a lot of context for it and, like, same over here. So that's what I would say. Full.

JR Sauder [00:18:38]:Okay. Yeah, that's a good one.

Tiffany Sauder [00:18:39]:Okay. Our marriage has gotten better in the following ways. Maybe we should also ask the question. Our marriage has gotten worse in the following ways, but I don't really know that it has. Okay, so our marriage has gotten better in the following ways in the past year.

JR Sauder [00:18:49]:So I said our overall approach, maybe this goes back to team a little bit, but with parenting teens, I think it was relatively new or very new maybe two years ago. And just how we've each matured and then matured together in our teamwork and relationship and parenting our two oldest, I feel we are like lockstip in how we're parenting those two. And, yeah, very confident and feel good about it. So that one was the first one that jumped out to me.

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:17]:That's a good one. I put, I think we think about the other one more. And this goes back to like, yeah, somebody needs to go to Crawfordsville for a 14 hours day. Yep, you had every right to be like, I have literally been on the road for the last two months. Like, can I just not do that? But then it would have set me way behind with the week and food and all the stuff that kind of needs to be done to prep for the week to go well. And you knew if that week went really rough, it was going to create an earthquake for the family because, yeah, I was going to be gone and course was launching and, like, all this stuff was happening.

JR Sauder [00:19:52]:Full transparency. There is some self interest. I know if it was set up, if you had a good weekend, that was going to be better for me as I had the girls alone that week and you could help us prepare for that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:20:04]:And that's true. And also, I think when you're at stuff alone, you can, like, crush on getting caught up I did get through a lot of email, so I always tell people. I was like, it is so kind that he takes these tournaments also not so secretly. He gets a lot done, so it works, though. I'm not annoyed by that. It's just also true. Okay.

JR Sauder [00:20:26]:I don't make as many friends as you do with the other parents, which is something I need to work on.

Tiffany Sauder [00:20:30]:I don't know that that's true. That's funny. Okay. I hope we continue to make progress in these ways.

JR Sauder [00:20:36]:Oh, I had one more for. Yeah, gotten better. I was gonna see what you said about this. I was gonna say, like, our big trip where you were saying for your minimum.

Tiffany Sauder [00:20:45]:Oh, yeah.

JR Sauder [00:20:45]:I think how we've gotten and that's gotten to this place where it's like a business and work trip for our relationship and where we are, but also combining things that are fun and, like, what that experience is. So I felt, like, accurate. Really said it's a minimum. I think we've gotten better for planning that and what it looks like.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:06]:Yeah. I love how you said that. It's both a business and a. What did you say? It's both a work and a fun trip for our relationship.

JR Sauder [00:21:13]:Yeah, it's a work trip for our relationship. For our relationship.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:16]:We're not doing work, but it's work on our relationship. Yeah.

JR Sauder [00:21:19]:And part of that is having fun together. But there's conversations that need to be had, and you've gone through it in other podcasts. We don't need to.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:27]:Yeah, right. Total back. But I like the language of that. That's good. I agree. That continues to get better. Okay. I hope we continue to make progress in these ways.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:37]:I wrote saying the most true thing as quickly as possible.

JR Sauder [00:21:42]:You're gonna have to expand on that, I think.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:43]:Do you know what I mean?

JR Sauder [00:21:44]:I know what you mean.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:45]:But, like, saying the most true thing as quickly as possible, so I feel like that always happens. How many big fights would you say we have a year? I'm gonna write a number down so you know I'm not cheating based on what you say.

JR Sauder [00:21:56]:Okay. I'll say four.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:57]:I vote five.

JR Sauder [00:21:58]:Okay. Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:59]:Like, not a lot, right? We don't have a lot of, like, really big, and I feel like we always have one. Like, before we have this podcast, for some reason, a couple days ago, we had a. Yeah, I don't know. Was it a fight?

JR Sauder [00:22:09]:Not really. I was just very frustrated and not frustrated at you, which is.

Tiffany Sauder [00:22:12]:Yeah, but I felt like you were. And so then we worked through that, but I said in that conversation, sometimes I feel jealous of your time. Like, I feel jealous that other people are getting it, other things are getting it. And I had been asking myself, like, why are some things just annoying me? And I got to the underlying thing. I was like, that's really it. I just feel jealous. Which I guess goes to your six. Like, I have not been the object of your attention in the last three months.

Tiffany Sauder [00:22:42]:And so sometimes I can feel jealous of it. So the speed at which I can uncover that truth, that clarity, and say those words to you versus, like, adjacent things that I'm responding to, it's just everything gets solved so much faster and so that I think the more we can just be grown ups, catch ourselves in reactions and be like, this is petty behavior. I don't know why I'm acting like this. So I just need to excuse myself. Like, in calling ourselves out on, like, you're throwing a tantrum like a child right now and I need to stop. I think that will even just, like, speed up the velocity of problem solving. I think things will not get as big and there's more closeness and intimacy in our marriage and relationship and household. And, like, only good things come from that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:23:27]:So that's what I would say is saying the most true thing as quickly as possible.

JR Sauder [00:23:31]:Yeah. And I wrote down, I put quality time is always my default. Like, that's my love language is just quality time goes right back into why I ranked it a six, because I'm not feeling like I'm able to provide enough quality time right now. And that goes to exactly what you're saying, too.

Tiffany Sauder [00:23:46]:Yeah, I think they're not the same thing, actually. You think quality time and what I said are the same thing?

JR Sauder [00:23:52]:Well, no, I don't think they're the same thing, but I think there's a correlation. That's what I'm saying.

Tiffany Sauder [00:23:55]:Yes. Yes. I would say when you have quality time, it's easier to do this, to say the most true thing.

JR Sauder [00:24:02]:Yes.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:02]:Yeah. Sometimes I do feel jealous of your time.

JR Sauder [00:24:05]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:06]:And I think that just kind of is a consequence of our choices. This is where I like, how do you live? Well inside of things that complaining for them to change doesn't change anything.

JR Sauder [00:24:18]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:19]:And I think that's a, like, pattern that happens in relationships. It's like I could choose to, like, blow up our whole relationship by being really mad every time you leave.

JR Sauder [00:24:29]:Right.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:30]:But the only thing we would navigate is conflict. And so I've, like, just chosen, like, we chose for you to say yes to this job. A consequence of that opportunity is that you have to be available to people who don't all live within a ten minute drive of our house.

JR Sauder [00:24:47]:Right.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:47]:And so as a result, it requires travel. So I could be really pissed at you for, like, having to be gone all the time, but we picked this, so that's how it goes. Like, I'm just saying that out loud so that if there's things with people who are listening of, like, these are patterns where it's, like, does it even make sense to be mad about it?

JR Sauder [00:25:03]:Right. Yeah, it's gonna happen.

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:05]:It doesn't. Unless I just say I'm not supportive of you being in this job. That's a totally different conversation. But murdering our relationship over the reality of the requirement is, like, a silly. A silly thing.

JR Sauder [00:25:21]:Yep.

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:22]:But I think we do that. I think if we really sat down and thought about, like, our younger selves in relationship, there were probably things that, like, we were murdering our marriage with that we're just. We just needed to accept. I don't even know what they are right now, but.

JR Sauder [00:25:33]:Right. I also said one of the. That maybe is more correlated to the progress. I just said keeping a tight circle of who gets our time like that, to me, is something I want to keep progressing towards. And I'm not saying that's you need to progress towards that, but I do as well. And, like, who's getting time? Which gets back to, like, your jealousy of time, because I think we both have that with each other, as we can get jealous of. Okay, I had this time slot available, and you filled it. You could be, either one of us filled it with something that isn't deemed super important by the other party.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:04]:Yeah, Friday nights are kind of a conflict point for us. Can we just say that?

JR Sauder [00:26:09]:Yeah, we're saying true things, remember?

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:10]:We're saying true things. That's right. Scare confidence. Friday nights are a conflict point for us because you really, the ones were home, you want them to be, like, very. Just unprogrammed. And sometimes it means you're driving to some, like, Cincinnati, Ohio, for us, volleyball tournament or something, but. And I'm like. I mean, yeah, I get for most of those.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:32]:So maybe we need to set a minimum for Friday nights. Like, in any given month, two of them need to be unprogrammed. Cause if I schedule something on a Friday night, you get real grumpy.

JR Sauder [00:26:43]:Yeah, I'm not thrilled about it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:45]:And I feel like, well, jeez, like, you're gone like this. What happens in my head, it's like, well, if you're gone 65% of a quarter. And then also you take, what is that, 15% of a week? What is one?

JR Sauder [00:26:57]:I just like. It's one of the few nights where I feel like the six of us, and if there's a friend that comes along with one of the kids, like, great, whatever, that's all fine, but I try to protect it for.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:07]:I know, I get it, but I'm like, well, yeah, we've all been home. Like, I'm just saying. Yes, I think that people are getting a chance to hear how it sounds out loud when we're like. I'm like, okay, so every Friday night that we're home forever, which, if that's what we agree to, then that's what we need to agree to. I talk about having implicit or implied expectations versus explicit agreements, and I think this is an area where it's kind of an implied expectation. We haven't really said.

JR Sauder [00:27:38]:Right. And I know that there are things that we have to do on Friday nights. Like I'm saying, sometimes we make choices.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:43]:Your list of have tos and my list of have tos start to get to be these qualitative battles. You know what I'm saying? So that's not productive.

JR Sauder [00:27:53]:No, we need more definition.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:54]:We do. I think that's another thing we need to do, is have an explicit agreement around Friday nights, because then I just manage the agreement.

JR Sauder [00:28:00]:Yeah, this is still like year 19. What happens?

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:03]:Okay, that will be helpful for me, actually. Something I talk a lot about in the course, to do a little 22nd promo here is literally that. How do you take implied expectations and turn them into explicit agreements? And this is a classic example of a thing that we have these little conflict bubbles that circle around. And it's just implied in my implication of what it means. And your implication, your implied understanding of it. It works 70% of the time, but 30% of the time it collides, and that doesn't work. But once there's a clear agreement, then we just both manage to it. It's very simple.

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:39]:Okay. One of the things I've learned about myself this year, I've said I need.

JR Sauder [00:28:43]:To say what might happen out loud so that others can hear it, so it can be on their radar versus my tendency is to wait until something's, like 95% certain and then I'll say it out loud. Just both at work and at home. I've learned, like, if something is over 50%, I should just say it just to get it on people's radar.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:03]:I do feel you getting better at that. Actually.

JR Sauder [00:29:05]:Oh, good.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:06]:But I think you can still get better at it. Yes. So you're, like, a four. You gave me a six, so I'm gonna give you a four.

JR Sauder [00:29:11]:I give us a six. That's not even true.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:14]:Okay, well, okay. I wrote, I think I have. I don't know if this is about myself, but what I've learned about myself is it's my job to feel good about me. I don't. I don't need to wait for you to say the perfect compliment. I don't need to wait for you to tell me that you think the course is good. Like, I get to decide if I think it's good. I get to decide if I'm motivated by it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:35]:I get, and I do value your opinion so much, and I can.

JR Sauder [00:29:40]:Yeah, this is perfect. I'm loving this because it goes right into the next question for what I said. I'm like, maybe it's higher than a six because we're so, like.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:48]:Because it's a pretty nuanced thing.

JR Sauder [00:29:49]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:50]:But I think it's my job to feel good about me, and I think this year I've just stepped into that with, like, hey, if I like it and I feel good about it, then if he likes it and compliments me or tells me he thinks it's good or valuable, then that's, like, an additional drop in the bucket. It's not like the one I'm waiting for.

JR Sauder [00:30:06]:Right.

Tiffany Sauder [00:30:06]:So I think because you've been gone a lot, and I've needed to figure out how to, like, make sure there's, like, blood circulation all the time. I've just been like, I don't. I'll die if I'm waiting around for him to tell me, and it's not your job. So that feels like a big breakthrough. And one of the questions I feel like I've been asking recently when we get into these heated fights, and I felt like it was a real breakthrough when we were having one of these a couple days ago, when I said, what did you hear me say? And it was, like, pretty heated, and you, like, snapped back me, and I was like, what did you hear me say? And then, like, what you repeated, I was like, I need to articulate to you what I mean for you to hear. And I felt like that changed the tone of where we were going pretty materially, and I was able to stop my reacting and be like, whoa. Like, the. What you're responding with is very adjacent to what I was expecting or hoping I had communicated to you.

Tiffany Sauder [00:31:03]:And so I was accepting, like, what did you hear me say? That's not what I meant. I need to try that again because I need to know how to be able to say this to you productively. And that didn't work the first time. So that question of what did you hear me say, I think takes ownership for me, versus saying, you're not understanding me, which is not a productive thing anyway. I think that's kind of an unlocked question. Okay. One thing I better learned about my spouse this year. Here you go.

JR Sauder [00:31:30]:Yeah. So I said how important my verbal acknowledgement of all you are doing is. And I say that because in the past, I would verbalize maybe what was exceptional and not necessarily what I see you doing that is moving, whether it's the ease of our lives, the logistic side of what you have going on, what we have going on as a family, and then can need to be more effusive in my praise of all the work you're putting towards your course, for example, and looking through that and spending time understanding what you're most proud of in regards to the projects that you have going on. So I think that part of it is, for me, is like, okay, it's the verbal aspect of, like, I would always seek to understand it and want to know what was going on, but I wouldn't always tell you, oh, hey, this is what I think is great about it, or this is what I see you doing. And I think that is something that I know you like to hear from me. Recognition. It's good. It's great.

JR Sauder [00:32:33]:I see you doing this.

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:35]:Yeah. I think that my course has taken up a lot of our lives, but when we got the welcome module done, I was like, family, I want you to watch this tonight. Everybody needs to watch it. I've been working on this, and I want you to see it. And I think my younger self would have waited for you to ask me to see it because that would have been like, well, then I know he really wants to, versus me being like, I am so proud of this, and I want to share it with you guys. I want you to understand it. And then you very kindly were like, I think it's really good, and I think you should be really proud of it. But even me being like, I'm confident in it, I don't need to wait for him to tell me, it's good.

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:08]:Then I was more confident in sharing it with you guys proactively. And then I kind of ultimately got what I wanted. I wasn't doing it so that you guys would say, that was good, but it more naturally happens. That makes sense.

JR Sauder [00:33:21]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:33:22]:I wrote one thing I've better learned about my spouse this year. I wrote two things. One is, like, just asking you more explicitly, like, what do you need from me this week? I feel like as I'm running our family calendar and running our family meetings, I'm trying to be more thoughtful about you being a customer of my time, too, instead of, like, well, you're a grown up. Manage your own bad self over there. I've got four other people who need me, so I'm assuming you're fine. I just feel like I've been try to be more conscious about, like, how do I serve you well? How do I make your week go a little bit easier tonight? I'm not gonna be home for dinner. And you're like, it's no problem. I can pick stuff on the way home.

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:00]:Like, those little things of, like, not just being, like, just deal with it.

JR Sauder [00:34:04]:Right.

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:04]:But making sure that there's a plan and that you're good with it. I don't know. I've just tried to be more thoughtful about that.

JR Sauder [00:34:09]:You've talked about the family meeting on this podcast before, and I think that's something we haven't mentioned yet, but that has helped overall, just in terms of organization and expectation, not just for me or for you, but for the entire family of, like, hey, this is going on. I think that awareness has helped a lot of members of our family.

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:26]:Yeah, I think it's been really productive. I agree. I'm, like, a big fan of it. The other thing I wrote, too, this is not recently you haven't been with your friends, but, like, you needing and wanting to be with your friends doesn't mean you don't want to be with us.

JR Sauder [00:34:38]:Right?

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:39]:And, like, again, I think just sharing this for, like, I, like, sometimes tell people, I mean, we are all girls. If I was a girl in an all boy house, I would sometimes need to be with girls. And you don't say that to us. Like, I need to be with boys, but I'm like, that's a normal thing to want to go be able to talk about things that you enjoy, that we don't have any context for. We're happy to listen, but we don't know how to talk about the, like, player trades that are going on right now in the NFL. And, like, I don't know. I don't know what to say. I'm happy to clap or something, but make you a t shirt.

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:10]:I don't know. So I think that's a good reminder when. If you're in a relationship where your spouse is gone a lot, if they get home and they need to go be with friends, it doesn't mean they don't want to be with you.

JR Sauder [00:35:21]:Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:21]:It just means that.

JR Sauder [00:35:23]:Yeah. I'm just laughing because this year, there was a lot more interest in the NFL and the Super bowl with Taylor Swift being involved in our household.

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:29]:It makes me, from previous years, disgusting. It's so true, though. The girls were never more excited than when you were going to Kansas City.

JR Sauder [00:35:36]:That's right.

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:37]:So weird. Okay, last question. Question. Advice I would give my kids at this stage of their lives.

JR Sauder [00:35:43]:I said, just encouragement to build support systems. Cause that will make their relationships, especially their marriage, better. And I think that's something you've done a really good job of and just being thankful for those support systems and telling the people who are part of those support systems.

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:59]:And when you mean support systems, what do you mean?

JR Sauder [00:36:01]:I mean family. All the people who help around our house. I mean, like.

Tiffany Sauder [00:36:06]:Like, our nanny, our house manager.

JR Sauder [00:36:07]:Like you were saying, like, each different aspect of our lives. Like, it can be, you know, I know Samantha helps a lot with you and your schedule and what she does for us. So to me, that's. I know she's an employee, but she's a big part of the support system and making sure she feels valued and thanked and everything for she's. But I would just sing to kids in this stage when they would get there, just encouraging them to build out support systems and not trying to do everything themselves. I think that got us in trouble.

Tiffany Sauder [00:36:37]:Yeah, that's good advice. And I wrote down, you can decide your perspective. Specifically, I said the way. Here's an example. The way you talk about your spouse to others impacts the way that you see them, which impacts the way that you think about them, which impacts the way that you interact with them. And when people ask me about you and you're gone again, I could be like, I don't know. I could turn into a big martyr in that and probably get a lot of social affirmation for how amazing I am at pulling everything off, you know what I mean? And it becomes this racket that's not that productive and just further moves me into this space that's not that productive for us being important, you know? And I've learned, like, the number of times you get a chance to talk about your spouse, it'll be like, he's doing great. I'm so proud of him.

Tiffany Sauder [00:37:25]:We chose this job and it requires him to be away. But we're supportive of that, and we work hard to do that. Well, then I'm saying that to myself, like, we chose this. We are working to do this well. Like, it starts to really solidify your perspective on it versus it being this kind of shell game. So that's what I mean. The overall thing is, like, just, you can decide your perspective on things. And that is an example over the last bit that I feel like I've just realized, like, man, this is wild, how powerful this is in informing the way I feel about my own life.

JR Sauder [00:37:56]:No, that's good advice.

Tiffany Sauder [00:37:58]:All right, babe. Well, we did it. Thank you for joining me again. I recorded this week the Happy Birthday Scare confident podcast because we're just starting four years. And one of my biggest fears when I started it was that you would not be supportive of me. Like, feeling compelled to live my life in a way that I'm sharing it all the time. And you doing this every year with me is like a big hug. And the fact that you listen to every episode and, like, I just love it so much.

Tiffany Sauder [00:38:28]:So thank you.

JR Sauder [00:38:29]:Well, you mostly love it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:38:31]:Well, I mostly love it. Sometimes he's like, why did you blah, blah, blah? And I was like, I mean, we're different. I mostly love it. I mostly love it.

JR Sauder [00:38:41]:No, you do a great job. And it was uncomfortable for me. So I appreciate the acknowledgement to live our lives as publicly as you would like them to be and tell people, but the encouragement, I know you've provided for families and people that can learn because I think it comes across here and that it wasn't perfect and it hasn't been perfect, and it's taken a lot of work, and I think, I hope that that's the biggest takeaway, is it is work to get to where you want to get to in really any area of your life.

Tiffany Sauder [00:39:09]:But you would say our lives feel meaningfully different than they did seven years ago.

JR Sauder [00:39:12]:Yes.

Tiffany Sauder [00:39:13]:Like, completely. Yeah, I agree. So. All right. I love you.

JR Sauder [00:39:16]:Okay. Love you, too.

Tiffany Sauder [00:39:20]:Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared confident. Until next time, keep telling fear. You will not decide what happens in my life. I will.

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