Navigating seasons of major change in a two-career home with Lindsay Tjepkema

[00:00:19] Lindsay Tjepkema: think that there is an opportunity and a responsibility to not do what's expected just because it's expected, but to do what's right, not what is easy, you know, like. this move out of this company that has been my fourth child for the last five years and that came out of two decades of lived experience and was the change that I knew I needed to see in the world.

[00:00:40] Like that's still true. And what I want and need to do now for myself and for my family personally and professionally is this next thing. And like both of those things can be true. And I think that especially for women, for everybody, especially for founders, especially for women founders. I think we get wrapped up so much in like, all the shoulds, who I need to be, and what I need to do, and how I need to show up, and all that's important, but it's like, people need to see you doing.

[00:01:12] What's right not what what's expected

[00:01:16] Tiffany Sauder: I'm a small town kid born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy and ever since my husband JR and I have been building our careers and careers.

[00:01:33] And our family on the exact same timeline. Yep. That means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered that I could purposely embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world. And I want that for you too. I'm Tiffany Souter and this is scared confident.

[00:01:58] This episode is with Lindsay Chepkema and she was so generous and jumping on the microphone with me literally 48 hours before the moving van was at her house, moving her family across the country. Lindsay's a founder. She's a podcaster. She's a mom of three boys and she and her husband are in a two career home.

[00:02:17] And I told her, I said, Lindsay, these seasons of change are so relatable. Would you be willing to jump on? And share really vulnerably how you guys made the decision to leave, how you're feeling as you're like literally leaving a city that you've been in for a long time. You founded a company here, you've stepped down from that role.

[00:02:36] How did you make these choices and how does it feel on the threshold of beginning to move into this next life in Boston? So listen in as Lindsay and I sort through the emotions, the facts, the like, Mom mode and the work mode and how she has navigated this big complex moment as her family enters a big moment of change.

[00:03:04] I got an email from Lindsay like a week and a half ago and it says as a friend and supporter of what we've been building at casted over the last five years. It's important to me that you're among the first to know that I've recently made the decision to transition out of my role at CASTED, which was founder and CEO.

[00:03:21] Working with my co founder and our board, this Friday is going to be your last day. Also, subtext, you may have already heard I'm relocating to Boston with my husband and our three boys, which are school aged. You have twins in fifth grade. And then your older one is in seventh grade. And I'm going to take some time to focus on this big transition for our family and figure out kind of how I continue to lean into the world of B2B leaders and marketing.

[00:03:45] So I get this email just innocently sitting at my desk, processing email as one does. And I'm like, holy crap, this is a big deal. So Lindsay and I have been growing businesses adjacently in the city of Indianapolis. Um, as both female leaders, female founders, we like kind of find ourselves sitting at the same table.

[00:04:04] Is that fair?

[00:04:04] Lindsay Tjepkema: Literally and figuratively. Yeah,

[00:04:06] Tiffany Sauder: totally. And you have also a two career home. Your husband has a gigantic job that requires an insane amount of travel, at least it has. So maybe give 30 seconds of context on that and then we'll dig into why I roped you into this 48 hours before the moving van comes.

[00:04:21] I put on

[00:04:21] Lindsay Tjepkema: real clothes for this. Yes.

[00:04:23] Tiffany Sauder: Yep. I was like, she found her hair dryer. She did all

[00:04:25] Lindsay Tjepkema: the things. Makeup. Yep. Yeah. A brush. Um. Okay. So, home. What's home like? Yeah. Yeah. So, let's see. My husband and I, I think we got married the same year. 2005? Yep. 2005. That's a good year. So, we've been married for coming up on 19 years.

[00:04:39] We have been good, bad, and otherwise cheerleaders for each other, and encouragers, and sometimes enablers of each other's. Overworkism and high achievement. Yeah, every time there's been an opportunity. I mean, I have a tattoo that says yes. Like we say yes, like just to opportunities and opportunities to grow and to learn and to do something big.

[00:04:57] And so we moved from Michigan to Chicago and then we moved from Chicago to Indy all for those reasons. Like, I think, you know, this is great, but I think we're being called to something at least different, maybe better. Right. And that has looked like he and I, my husband's name is Mike, kind of just both taking opportunities and saying, we'll just figure it out.

[00:05:15] We'll just figure it out. And then kids came along, we'll just figure it out, including twins. We'll just figure it out. And we always have, sometimes have been prettier than others. There was this whole season, decade, where, you know, my husband was traveling three to five days a week. I had three small children.

[00:05:31] And in 2019 started a business and made the leap from marketing leader to first time founder of a venture backed SaaS company and a CEO seat while he was still traveling. And so we just kept figuring it out. But it's been wild. Yeah, well, I

[00:05:47] Tiffany Sauder: asked in my response, I was like, Oh, my word, Lindsay, I'd love to get together if we can possibly make it before you guys leave town.

[00:05:53] I'm so happy and excited for you. But also, I was like, would you be willing to jump on and have this conversation, recording it really as a way to be generous to us, our younger selves, and your sort of sit around and watch these families, these people, these leaders that you respect make these giant decisions.

[00:06:16] And you kind of are sitting there being like, how, what did it feel like? What is actually going through your head? How has it been with you and Mike processing this change together? Were you always on the same page? Was there tension? How did it feel walking out of the office for the last time? So I haven't actually asked those questions to you yet.

[00:06:32] That's what I want to ask, but you graciously were like, yeah, let's do it. Obviously we should record it because I think these private moments, which is like so brave of you to even venture to share this with others. That's what we wonder about. Yeah,

[00:06:47] Lindsay Tjepkema: I think, yeah, because social media, I mean, we're both business leaders and marketing leaders.

[00:06:51] And it's really easy to look like, Oh, I'm just going to go. I'm leaving my job in my company and we're moving to Boston. How many announcements do you see every day about a sabbatical? Like I'm taking a year off and we're going to go travel the world. And it's like, wow, that must be nice. And that's not this.

[00:07:04] I mean, I feel very grateful, feel very privileged to be able to do what we're doing, but also it came to your point, huge amounts of sacrifice, very, very big decisions. Lots and lots of planning about finances and what are we going to do if and how is this going to work and leaps of faith and what do we do if and what do we do when and our kids.

[00:07:23] I mean, the biggest thing out of all of it was, yeah, but we had these three boys and they're all in middle school and they have a good thing going. They have tons of friends and they're very well adjusted and. What's that gonna do? So yeah, absolutely we can dig into it because I feel like life is meant to be lived Which is why we're doing this thing.

[00:07:39] I also feel really called there from a faith perspective But yeah, it's there have been many many many times that it's like what are we doing?

[00:07:46] Tiffany Sauder: Why are we doing this? I know a little bit in January your husband was Um, given there was kind of this, I don't know, a hint of an opportunity, maybe let's kind of start there because that's only like 12 weeks ago for those keeping score at home.

[00:07:59] So let's talk about that. And then we'll kind of go into what the last few weeks have been like as this has become a more public choice. Like,

[00:08:07] Lindsay Tjepkema: you know, going back now we're here. Yeah. So right on Christmas time, everything was normal. normal Christmas, but we started having hints of, hey, this is an opportunity and this might come along.

[00:08:18] And I should also mention, and Share's being honest and real, like he had been unemployed. So he left the job that he had been traveling three to five days a week because travel. He was very successful there. He was very happy there, but the travel was just crushing us. We just couldn't. Especially post COVID, which I think a lot of people can relate to when he was home for a couple of years.

[00:08:36] And then it was fast and furious back out in the field. It wasn't good for us. It wasn't good for him. We left that job, came over to the world of SAS and worked in SAS for a while. And it long story short, it wasn't great. Like it just wasn't a fit. And so he went through this really fun season of unemployment and we were like, okay.

[00:08:54] We're going to figure this out and was looking at options here and was looking at options everywhere and that employer that he had been working with for 12 years before he left because of travel, never went away and had seen his value all along, which is again, so important. Like when you are. Beloved, and you're successful, and you're happy.

[00:09:12] Those relationships don't go away. And they kept nudging. You must have

[00:09:15] Tiffany Sauder: left on really good terms for that to be,

[00:09:17] Lindsay Tjepkema: yeah. Yeah, which, again, also important. Left on very good terms. Still knew everyone and what was happening. And was very much on top of things. And they were like, hey, if you're available, we would really love you to come back.

[00:09:27] To Boston. And we were like At first, we were like, no, obviously we can't. I have this company here, we have our kids, and we have this whole village. We can't. And so he kept poking at opportunities and making conversations, but this one just wouldn't go away. And they were like, just so you know, really want you to come here.

[00:09:45] And also Boston for him, it's the epicenter of, he's in bioscience, and it's not just any city. It's the city for him. And they wanted to come late to this team. It wasn't just a job. It was the job. And he was like, I really want this. And so it's like, well, you know, don't close the door before it's even opened, see it through, see what it even means.

[00:10:06] And you know, one thing after another, it was mid to late January. And they were like, let's make it official. That's when we decided to go.

[00:10:13] Tiffany Sauder: So one of the things I'm wondering is in seasons of uncertainty, like what your husband was going through with, I was in a job that wasn't a good fit. Now. I go to parties and people ask me where I work and I have to say nowhere right now.

[00:10:25] Did that mess with his sort of like confidence and even the way you guys could show up for each other? Like you've got this cool thing going on and I'm going to put say struggling, but just like I can imagine that's hard.

[00:10:36] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think anyone who, especially high achiever, um, top performer, he had literally on his desk.

[00:10:45] Like, as he was searching for jobs, like plaque, award, plaque, award, and, and, um, I think that as it would with anyone, it shook him, um, made him question a lot, but at the end of the day, I think it was good for him and good for both of us because it helps you remember who you actually are, regardless of when you listen too much to what other people say, the good and the bad, the praise and the criticism, you start to believe it.

[00:11:11] And I think it helped. I would venture to say it helped him, it also helped me to be like, okay, when all of that is gone, the bad and the good, like what's still there? And he started, you know, it's end of April, mid April now, and he started mid February just seeing him get back and all the lessons learned through trial by fire and like the tuition you pay for the lessons learned, being able to see him in a place where he is so valued.

[00:11:37] And is applying so much of what he's learned and decades of growth and commitment and he's a totally different person now in this role, which is really, really cool to see. But as his wife, like being able to see him like on fire again in the very best way is pretty great.

[00:11:56] Tiffany Sauder: So I know, I feel like one of the questions I hear a lot is in a two career household, How do you decide who's?

[00:12:03] career we're going to make choices for and can't you both have it at the same time? Like, how did you guys walk through that? Because your career enabled him maybe more time and space to really find the right thing because you have money coming in and now like, Hey, Lindsay's walking away to go support her husband's career.

[00:12:24] So how do you guys think about that? Again, this is a place I think where there's just like cultural fallacy that it's always 50 50 and we're both running a hundred percent at our careers and The other person is riding sidecar for the other one, but otherwise we're just rowing as fast as we can. It's like a lot more nuanced than that.

[00:12:40] So I'd be curious how you guys work through that and how that felt for you. We don't know how that felt.

[00:12:47] Lindsay Tjepkema: First of all, I think for us we've taken turns without really intentionally taking turns, but also I think We've always said, like, even in the worst of times, we're a good team, you know, like in the best of times, we're a great team, and we're really happy, and even in the worst of times, it's like, wow, we're a great team, and so I think there's been so many, like, I'm gonna do this, and then I'll kneel down, and you get on my knee, and I'll boost you over the wall, and then you pull me up and over, and then you have to remember, too, that it's all, everything, regardless of whose career comes first or second, the kids are all, like, probably impacted more than anybody, and so, I don't know, I think that we've absolutely taken turns, like, the whole reason we're here in Indianapolis is because of his job.

[00:13:24] And look how that turned out. I started a job and I have, I started a company and that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't followed him here, you know, and we talked about that many times. Like, I'm following him to Boston, but Boston's a great place. Indy's a great place. And I think, at least for us, You just have to be a team.

[00:13:43] You have to. And be like, are my decisions, massive or tiny, going to impact this other person and their career and all that they've worked for and who they are as a parent and our finances and our home? It's been more cyclical than, okay, now it's your turn.

[00:14:00] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. J. R. is in a role right now where we knew saying yes to that was going to require more flexibility.

[00:14:06] Either we're going to need a second nanny. Like, really, or I was going to have to have more flexibility because it was going to require a ton more travel. And so I say to others, we said yes to this role. We chose this. There are things I need to absorb as a result of our decision. But messaging that even like socially is, I'm not home more because JR travels.

[00:14:27] This is a choice we made for him to say yes to this because it's great for our family. It's exactly what he needs at this season and his career and development and who he wants to figure out what he can do and be and all those things that you see in this man you love. And I feel that in you when you're like, I see him in the zone doing the thing he was like built to do.

[00:14:47] Lindsay Tjepkema: You said it so beautifully. Like it's a team. It's a choice as a team and as a family unit to look at it holistically and unselfishly both sides and say, how is this going to serve? The family and our relationship and our greater family like all of our parents and siblings and yeah, it's so much bigger than either one of our jobs or either one of our careers and I think we talk a lot.

[00:15:12] Like we just spend a lot of time talking and I think it's, well, what's this going to do for you? And what's this going to do for me? And we'll take, what's the longterm and how are we going to make it through? And

[00:15:18] Tiffany Sauder: has that always been part of your relationship to talk a lot or have you guys had, that's all, that's really cool.

[00:15:24] Lindsay Tjepkema: So we started dating when I was, It's still in high school, like I was 17. And we used to go get coffee. Right? Like, that was especially That was very That

[00:15:31] Tiffany Sauder: was

[00:15:32] Lindsay Tjepkema: a very

[00:15:32] Tiffany Sauder: That was not a thing that we did. Oh, really? At 17? Yeah. How old are you? 41. Okay, so I was born in 80. We're three years apart. But I feel like grabbing coffee, I feel like we were not that sophisticated.

[00:15:43] There was like a

[00:15:44] Lindsay Tjepkema: really super cute little coffee shop. My sister's six years older. Okay. And so like, they would go get coffee. Okay, yeah. And so I thought getting coffee was really cool. Yeah. Yeah. And this was also in the years of Friends. So like, Central Perk, you know? Yeah,

[00:15:55] Tiffany Sauder: that's true. And so I

[00:15:56] Lindsay Tjepkema: didn't go get coffee with my friends a whole lot.

[00:15:57] Maybe once in a while, but I don't know, when we started dating it was like, there was this little coffee shop called Hill of Beans, and we were there, the poor owners, which loved us and they were really sweet, but like, we would get our, at the time, 3 coffee. mostly sugar with a splash of espresso drinks and sit there for four hours just like dreaming and what do you want and what do I want and like I can't wait I'm like gonna go to college here and I'm gonna study this and we're gonna do this and I think that dreaming that's been foundational to who we are too.

[00:16:26] That's really cool. Yeah. So how did you tell your boys? Oh that was hard, that was painful. So we waited until we were certain because we didn't want to Yank them around and get them all worked up, good, bad, or otherwise, and then change things. So we waited till we were certain and we tried to plant little seeds.

[00:16:44] Dad's looking for this job and it could mean anything and we'll keep you posted. But I told my oldest first and I picked him up from school one day and took him to go get coffee over at Schoolhouse 7. Just a cute little coffee shop right by a school. And in the car because I didn't want him to, you know, fall apart in a little cafe, I told him.

[00:17:02] He just instantly broke down. But again, we talked about it. And no matter what, just keep talking to me. If you're mad, if you're sad, if you're happy, he was like, it's not your fault. It'll be okay. Because I wanted him to know so that he could feel in on if he wanted to be telling his brothers. And so then we went home and immediately told them and just kind of talked through it as a family and ate pizza.

[00:17:23] And, and then immediately, like three days later, went to Boston so that they wouldn't start. Telling stories in their head about, Oh, we're going to live in an apartment, or live in some awful place, or some great place. Or a movie they saw once about Boston or something. Right. Exactly. And so we went there and just drove around and did some cool things.

[00:17:41] And three of us went to Blue Man Group and two of them went to a Celtics game. And I think that helped. It was rough though. It's been tough, but. I think, again, maybe the theme of this is just keep talking, like just keep talking to me. And that's worked so far. I'll report back later.

[00:17:59] Tiffany Sauder: So what was it like the night before, because you also had to tell your company, I mean, you were a founder.

[00:18:06] So I'm foundry. It's like you were there with sort of first dollar. There's people who say yes to the company because they're saying yes to you. They don't really. actually understand the service or technology that, well, you know, they're just like, I don't know. I want to be part of what you are. So what was it night, like the night before when you're like, tomorrow's the day I'm going to say these words or send this email?

[00:18:27] I don't know how you did it, but just be curious. And like, you're here. We are.

[00:18:31] Lindsay Tjepkema: Thankfully it was a little crumbs, not intentionally, but I have always been, I think my board would, you know, Say the same thing. I've always been very, very open. The plan was to lead from Boston. We're fully remote. And I was like, yeah, it's, I just need you to know this.

[00:18:45] If it changes anything for you, you let me know, but doesn't change anything for me. That's my plan. Like we're moving to Boston. Here's the situation. Here's the timeline. And they were like, Okay, cool. Then by the time I was like, actually things changed, which really was just the realization of like, how massive of a change this was going to be for my family.

[00:19:02] And it's been five years it casted, and just really starting to think about what this means and what this means for my family and what this means for me. And I got to the place where I was like, I think that this is the right time and the right opportunity. To say, actually, I think it's time for me to, again, I started with my board and they were super supportive, incredibly supportive.

[00:19:20] And my co founder, same thing. And then told the team and I don't know, we'd have to ask them, but I think that people were surprised, but also, I don't know, people just have been really supportive, just really supportive. Customers, investors have all been like, okay, well, of course, everybody wants to know what it means.

[00:19:35] Anytime there's news shared, everyone wants to know, what does this mean for me or for my company or for my role? But then it's like, okay, well, What are you going to do? I'm like figuring that out. So have you cried

[00:19:47] Tiffany Sauder: through this process?

[00:19:48] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah, always at like super inopportune times when I'm like in the middle of a sentence like telling a story and it's just, yeah, here we go.

[00:19:56] And yeah, whether I like it or not, it hits me later. So I go into just like Brene Brown talks about it. There's like, oh gosh, it's like people who like overdo it going to overdrive. And then there's people who like feel all their emotions. Like I go into the overdrive like I have just been like, okay, we're gonna pack.

[00:20:11] We're gonna do all these things. I need to do this. This is my announcement. I need to tell these people. I need to send this email. I need to pack this box and I need to make this appointment.

[00:20:17] Tiffany Sauder: You're going to get to Boston. Yeah. And be so tired. Like your body is going to read all this stuff. Yeah.

[00:20:25] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. So I'm preparing for that, but I guess right now I'm thankful for it that I just go into, like, I'll feel it later.

[00:20:31] Not on purpose. I would rather feel

[00:20:33] Tiffany Sauder: No, I think that's smart and knowing it, I remember coming out of COVID, I wish so desperately I would have just taken three weeks off. Like in May or June of 2022 or something like there's this sense of massive solving, protecting the planet. Yeah. Team, you just don't have time.

[00:20:54] I'm reading this book right now about this adventurer, Shackleton, do you know about this? He was trying to lead a group of men across, explorers across Antarctica. And the boat, basically, it like sinks. And it takes them a year to get these men out. A year. But when you're like in this massive solving, there's no capacity for the leader to process their own humanness, which is I think sometimes actually good and protects the team.

[00:21:22] But you're like the leader and a lot of things right now. And there's going to be a season where you're going to be like, some reason I can't get out of bed and I've done nothing, you know, just like so tired. Cause your body has to feel it. Yeah.

[00:21:32] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. I'll let you know.

[00:21:34] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah. Well, I get that. I totally get that.

[00:21:37] Okay. So I have a couple of questions I wrote down here. You know, we talked about this identity and role thing.

[00:21:41] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah.

[00:21:42] Tiffany Sauder: So in this moment, you have massively had this identity in the indie space, in the B2B tech space, as a strong female founder, kind of carrying this crusade of like, hey, women can also lead VC backed companies to success and big outcomes and also have a family.

[00:22:01] Like all this, like, and, and, and, and. Not that you're ever going to not have that as part of who you are, but What has it been like to be like, this is not my calling card anymore. This is not the entry point. I'm sort of Lindsay Chapcombe now.

[00:22:15] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. That messed with me for a while. Like even when I had that realization months ago where it was like, well, what kind of, what happens if I fail?

[00:22:22] What happens if I leave? What happens if just any, a number of things. And I just, what happens? Like, are there people, which I think it's always, I don't know how you feel. So I mean, people are absolutely watching you. That feels weird to even think that. I'm like, no, they're not. But if that's true and I were to fail or to leave or to make a different choice, what does that mean?

[00:22:43] What impact is that going to have? And so that messed with my mind for a long time. And then I think the realization that I am so tied up with CASTED and the brand and what does that mean for me and lots of identity things, so many, I feel like we maybe even talked about this before, but I think part of that, one of the realizations that I had was like, And part of that, if anyone is watching or inspired in any way, I think that there is an opportunity and a responsibility to not do what's expected just because it's expected, but to do what's right, not what is easy.

[00:23:16] You know, like this move out of this company that has been my fourth child for the last five years. And that came out of two decades of lived experience and was the change that I knew I needed to see in the world. Like, that's still true. And what I want and need to do now for myself and for my family, personally and professionally, is this next thing.

[00:23:38] And like, both of those things can be true. And I think that especially for women, for everybody, especially for founders, especially for women founders, I think we get wrapped up so much in like, all the shoulds and all of the like, who I need to be and what I need to do and how I need to show up and all that's important.

[00:23:59] But it's like, people need to see you doing. What's right, not what, what's expected.

[00:24:04] Tiffany Sauder: What does your brain say to you when you're in your like most uncertain version of yourself?

[00:24:13] Lindsay Tjepkema: Ooh. Yeah. So uncertainty and fear. So funny. I was, I was just talking to a friend about what does like the voice in your head, like what does yours sound like?

[00:24:20] And she was talking about this other thing and I was like, that's really interesting because I kind of figured that everybody's was fear. Like mine is just. Oh, well, this obviously isn't going to work and FOMO and just all of the scarcity.

[00:24:34] Tiffany Sauder: Other people will be successful before you kind of thing.

[00:24:37] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. Or the opportunities that right now I'm excited about and planning on and we're making this move for, and I'm making these changes for these projects that I'm working on.

[00:24:47] Obviously that's not going to amount to anything. Obviously that's just going to fail. I'm like toying with this book and I'm writing down words and it's like, well, you're never even going to finish that. And if you do, it's just going to be complete garbage. And, well, I'm doing this show. I'm like doing my own show.

[00:25:02] Well, obviously that's going to be crummy. If you ever publish it, people are just going to say nice things to be nice. And, like, that's constant. And, again, I think that's all the more reason to pursue it. Because if anybody is watching anything that I do, I think it's important to see you do it anyway. I

[00:25:21] Tiffany Sauder: think the words scare confident mean As I've lived with those two words for like four years, I find there are seasons where I relate to one word or the other more strongly.

[00:25:32] It just means something a little differently as I'm sort of on the journey. And so I was like curious as you look at the word scare confident and which word do you find yourself, your mind settling on maybe longer and what does it make you feel? Yeah, I

[00:25:47] Lindsay Tjepkema: have these two bracelets that say trust and surrender.

[00:25:49] And I think one of the huge lessons for me this year with all of this and just kind of everything's around it, just everything in life. Is that the more I try to control something and just do what we as high achievers what has served us well for years You'd white knuckle something and you're like i'm gonna figure this out.

[00:26:06] I'm gonna wrestle it to the ground I'm gonna succeed i'm gonna win i'm gonna overcome it i'm gonna get the thing The more I try to do that in this season the more afraid I get whereas if i'm like I'm going to do my best i'm going to have faith i'm going to trust and just Surrender to what I know to be true, then the scared goes away and the confidence overcomes.

[00:26:31] And every single time it's, you know, when I get up and I work out, we talked about that in the past, like morning workouts, and spend some time just alone with my coffee, journaling and stuff, those are the times I'm not afraid. But when I'm like, ah, I just gotta get to it, I gotta get to it, I gotta wrestle the day to the ground, I've gotta start doing the things.

[00:26:49] Those are the scarier times. And so there's a lot that I wish I had learned sooner and I'm absolutely taking with me in this next

[00:26:58] Tiffany Sauder: chapter. I think there's so much courage in saying the part of us as we build a life of and and you very much have a life of and with all the different roles that you play in life and with your family.

[00:27:09] The seasons where we're over indexed on work. Other people see and are celebrated with lots of things like Inc. 5000s and 40 Under 40s and Being on lots of boards and there's like this glamour that comes with over indexing on work and it's not that people are saying Oh, I'm so glad you're workaholic.

[00:27:28] It's just kind of what comes from that season of effort and learning and building a network and Knowing the social map of a city, and there's a season for that. I don't begrudge any of that. It was such an important season, but I find a responsibility to say just as loudly, there's a season where I'm going to need to over index on being a mom.

[00:27:49] It's a season where my kids need me differently, it's a season where our family needs me differently, and it's a season where there's tasks that I don't want to outsource. And I want to be there, and so I'm going to use this season to kind of over index relative to. 10 years ago on being a mom and that doesn't make me a sellout that doesn't make you a sellout.

[00:28:12] It's just that if I want to build this life of and there are seasons to things and figuring out how to say yes at the right volume across these different ands that we're building. over the course of a lifetime. That, I think, is the true riddle of life in my mind.

[00:28:36] Lindsay Tjepkema: I think so, too. And I heard this thing the other day.

[00:28:38] There was this woman talking about making choices. And so often, she was talking about how so often people think it's right or wrong, right? Well, if I do this, moving to Boston, is that the right choice or the wrong choice? It's the right choice. Or staying is the right choice because it's life. This isn't a game.

[00:28:55] This isn't a video game where you go down the wrong path. It's not a maze. You don't reach a dead end, it's life. And I've been telling the boys, like, this is not the end of our life in Indy and the beginning of our life in Boston. This is where we get to add Boston to our life. It's both. There are different seasons where your kids and your family, sometimes your friends, my parents, need you differently.

[00:29:17] I need me differently. You know, after, Five years of running a venture backed SAS company. I need parts of my brain that I haven't had access to in a while. And I'm excited to give. I think when like you go through seasons of taking, you need a lot like sitting in a seat that I had never sat in before.

[00:29:32] First time founder, first time CEO, first time raising venture capital. I needed a lot. And is that how I felt? Just like, can you, can you, can we, can you, can you do it? Can, can I, and I've learned a lot in that and I'm hopeful that I can turn around and say, and. Give more and serve more and give to my kids more like my family made.

[00:29:53] I'm sure you can relate to this too. Such massive sacrifices. We talked at the beginning of this conversation about my husband made a complete career change for the pursuit of my entrepreneurial spirit and my kids have sacrificed a lot too, and we're all great and better for it, but it's this season needs me differently and that's not right or wrong.

[00:30:13] It's just how I'm needed and how I need me.

[00:30:16] Tiffany Sauder: So if somebody listening has a friend that's like in a season of transition like this, like what is the support you need right now in your life?

[00:30:23] Lindsay Tjepkema: Active listening and just support and like read the conversation. And if it's like excited, let them be excited. If they're sad, let them be sad.

[00:30:31] Don't try to fix it. I can't tell you how many conversations we've had with people that are like, what are you going to do about law? Wow. Cost of living there is so much more expensive. What are you going to do about that? And I'm like, wow, I never thought about that. Or like, yeah, what are you going to do about the kids?

[00:30:45] And I'm like, huh, never crossed my mind. So it's just like, and he was not

[00:30:50] Tiffany Sauder: important.

[00:30:50] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah. And my husband and I have had a lot of conversations because he's faced it too, where it's like, people are just curious and people are just trying to be helpful. But it's like, Before, if you are in a conversation with someone who's going through a massive life transition, before you ask any question or give any advice, like ask yourself, is this because I'm truly trying to help or support or show up as a friend, or is it because I'm curious?

[00:31:10] Like do I just, Oh my gosh, I don't know what I would do if, or what are you going to do about, or have you thought about, are you curious? Or is it coming from a place where, like, you're actually trying to serve the person and support the person? That's been huge. I think that would have changed a lot of conversations that we've had.

[00:31:26] Tiffany Sauder: I think there's also this thing that can happen, too, subconsciously, where if somebody else is moving on, it makes you feel like the thing you've chosen maybe, like, somehow isn't good enough. Like, nothing about you is implying I'm leaving here because this isn't enough for our family. That's not the motion in any way, shape, or form.

[00:31:45] But I think sometimes when a group feels left, there's this, we make the whole world about ourselves that you leaving has something to do with, you know what I mean, with us and it's

[00:31:56] Lindsay Tjepkema: like, literally

[00:31:58] Tiffany Sauder: your journey. I love how you talked about this is just life and we are colored in so many ways by. The peaks and valleys in life.

[00:32:08] I remember, I know you and your family, you guys are people of faith, and I have seen in my life, if you look at life from our perspective, from the earth up, the valleys are where it's very hard, but the inverse, like God's perspective, is those are actually mountaintops. And how there's like this puzzle piece that goes together of like, it really can be seasons where Life is hard, but it feels so rich in a different way, because you're so vulnerable and so That's where the

[00:32:37] Lindsay Tjepkema: soil is richest, is in the valley.

[00:32:38] Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, so naked, so to speak, and like your own ability to Solve and know what's coming. So

[00:32:45] Lindsay Tjepkema: I mean, love that for you guys. Well, and especially being very type a, Enneagram three Heidi on the disc, like give me a, we're like mirrors, give me a personality test and it will be like, I will win it. I will find a way to win the personality test.

[00:32:59] And so I think with that, like you were just saying, like you get rewarded for that. It's keep on achieving girl. Just go keep achieving. And I think that. When you do that, and especially when you're successful, like somebody said once, success is an awful teacher. And I think when you think you can do it on your own, even if you're like a person of faith, Oh, thanks God.

[00:33:18] I'm do it like high fives. Like we're doing this thing. You convince yourself even subconsciously that you're doing it or that you're doing it and God loves you. But I think when you go through seasons of just total uncertainty, I don't know, I have no idea. There were moments that I was like, I don't know where we're going to live.

[00:33:37] We knew Boston. Boston's a very big place. I don't know where we're going to live. We don't have a house. I don't know if our house is going to sell. I don't know where our kids are going to go to school. I don't know what I'm going to do for a living. Everything was uncertain. If you don't have faith in something, anything, I don't know how you do it because then there's no way I could have figured that out.

[00:33:52] No way. I would have, I mean, the stress was high enough already. Like literally my eyes started twitching and it's been twitching for the last three months. And that's even in full surrender, just being like, I'm just going to walk, you know, one foot at a time and just trust that something bigger is in control.

[00:34:10] Thank goodness it's not me, because I would fail miserably. And I just think that's so important. And the lessons, if you let it, the lessons that you learn in those seasons cannot be read in a book, cannot be gleaned from someone else. And if you are open enough to being taught, you will be changed forever.

[00:34:32] Tiffany Sauder: So if you're listening back to this a year from now, what do you hope you can say is true for

[00:34:39] Lindsay Tjepkema: your

[00:34:40] Tiffany Sauder: family?

[00:34:41] Lindsay Tjepkema: First and foremost, my kids. I hope that they are just thriving and that they love me. Here, they love Indy, they've held to friendships, held to memories, but that they are thriving with school and with friends because, you know, as a parent, like, if my kids are okay, I'm gonna be okay.

[00:34:58] I hope my husband's still happy in his job. If he's not, this would be really silly to be moving. Um, and for me, I hope that I've taken a break. I hope that I've never taken a break before. I hope that I've, like, done some really, really creative things that I've followed through. On the creative projects that are kicking around in my brain right now and that I've been helpful.

[00:35:20] Very cool. Yeah. Well, you

[00:35:22] Tiffany Sauder: can listen back in a year. Well, I'm like excited for you and your family, but it's a big deal for our city to lose you. I don't, you know, I'll say share you maybe with a different city. Um, I think that you've been such a gracious leader and it's hard to do what you've done.

[00:35:40] There's a lot of people watching and a lot of people. Literally and figuratively invested and that's a lot and you're like always ready. I remember we spoke I think on a panel together and your son had been like shot in the eye with oh my gosh nerf gun or something

[00:35:56] Lindsay Tjepkema: Yeah, that's the thing that happened and you were like,

[00:35:59] Tiffany Sauder: well, this is me going on stage my phone The ringers on, if I need to leave, I will, but you're just very tough and it takes a lot of grit to do big things.

[00:36:10] So anyway, I just think like, congrats on what you've done. It's exciting and sad to see you go, but we'll be close enough. So,

[00:36:19] Lindsay Tjepkema: and

[00:36:20] Tiffany Sauder: yes. And that's right. Well, thank you.

[00:36:22] Lindsay Tjepkema: It means a lot more than, you know,

[00:36:23] Tiffany Sauder: yeah, good. Thanks for doing it. Yeah.

[00:36:30] for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling fear. You will not decide what happens in my life. I will.