Part 2: Fear and Forgiveness with JET

JET Part 2

Jet: I did. I had an affair. I had a physical affair. Yeah. I, it it's so far. And also also a lot of it to justify it in my own being, because if you would have said to, to, to myself or spoke to my spirit anytime in the past to say, But that would be possible that I could do something like that. It would be absolutely not because that's just not something that I would ever do.

I would leave the marriage first. It's it's not, it's not honorable. It's not it's it's, it's so disrespectful. It's not. And so in my mind though, I justified it by, I literally was like, I've been doing everything my whole life for everybody else. Like I've always been taking care of everybody else, but what about me?

What is my time?

Tiffany: I'm your host, Tiffany Sauder. And this is Scared Confident

as you listen into part two of death's journey, she really moves from. Small family, her nuclear family, and begins to tell the journey of her and Kevin, her husband, and she really in a very brave and vulnerable and courageous way shares how sometimes the best truest relationships are born out of Hertz.

Jet: Kevin and I, we got married proposed to me. He got my rank two and a half months after we were dating. He, and I had never discussed marriage because quite honestly, I never thought I'd get married. I'd live with guy. He'd have kids, we'd have him every other weekend that that kind of be right. And. I, he, he got my ring.

He, it was the most romantic proposal ever. I, we, I thought we were celebrating the fact that I was leaving property management, um, and my other two jobs because I worked that's, all I did was work. Um, I, I then became manager of the apartment complex 240 units. And then I, on my days off, I cleaned. So on the two days off, and then the, uh, three nights a week when I got off at, uh, Thompson village apartments, I went, uh, to this, Mr.

D's is what it was called or whatever. It was a grocery store in Indiana or whatever. And I worked the deli and I worked the front cash register or whatever. All I did was work cause I just needed to make money and I needed to save and I needed to, you know, just, just work, work, work. I just had the belief that if you worked hard and if you saved, you could have whatever you want in life, but you have to be smart.

You got to work hard and you got to save. And so I was li I had met Kevin. I had no time to really spend with him because I worked so much. So, and then I got custody of my brother and I was like, I can't work this much if I'm getting custody of my brother. So. The two houses that I cleaned on my days off, I said, you know what?

I'm going to, I'm going to make business cards. I'm going to give them to those clients and see if I can pick up enough clients to just clean houses. Then I make cash. And then I can get my brother off to school and I can be home when he comes home. And I didn't even have to make business cards. I told the two people I cleaned for.

And I had more business that I could even take on. I can't cook for shit, but man, can I keep a house immaculate? So I did that. And then we were celebrating that weekend that I was now going to have some free time. And well, this was before I had Rocky. So anyway, he, he said wear the dress you wore on our first day.

And pack a bag and overnight bag. So I did that. Mind you, three months, we had been dating, we never talked about marriage. One of my girlfriends goes, oh my God, is he going to propose you? I was like, are you crazy? No, we haven't even talked about marriage. We go down to union station, downtown, Indianapolis.

We walk in, I had borrowed a camera, a nice camera from one of the Colts players' wives that I cleaned up. And we were going to get pictures of ourselves. Cause we never got pictures on our first date at the Colts Christmas party. So we walk in and there's a lady photographer standing there and I say, oh, let's ask her if she can, you know, you take some pictures with the camera.

She's like, well, I'm waiting on another couple, but I'll take some pictures of you guys. And. She's like, I'll use my camera and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Show me how to use this camera. Cause in my mind, all I'm thinking is this lady is going to charge me a fortune for these pictures. I don't, I don't want to spend money on pictures.

Just show me how to use this camera. And Kevin's like, let her just take the pictures. So, okay. How about this pose? How about this pose? How about this pose then the next thing I know he's on his hands and knees and he goes, how about I ask you to marry me and you wear this. He had hired the photographer to be there.

It was the most romantic, amazing mind blowing moment because I just poof and then the reality sinking in and he's like, so what do you say? And I'm like, yes. And then the photographer's crying and she tells me, you know, I don't come on location. I have a studio in Greenwood and. But he called me and he started talking to me about how much he loved you and what do you want him to do?

And I thought to myself, I've got to meet this girl. I've got to meet this guy in person. I got to take these pictures. So we have this collage of photos and Kevin has the same scary. Tail look grin on his face like this and all the bigs, because he knows what's going to happen, but I don't. But then we went to one of the train car rooms and he had a dozen roses and he had a package from, um, like the Nordstrom or whatever.

Um, and he, we got in the room and I sat on the edge of the bed and he said, you didn't look inside your room. And I was like, what? And I took the ring off and on the inside of my ring, he had written, he had inscribed. I adore you one time we were in the car and we were driving and he was just like, we were at a stoplight and he was just staring at me.

And I was like, what? And he's like, I don't know. I just, I just, I don't know. I just adore you. And I went, you would dorm. And he's like, yeah. Is that the right word? I just, I adore you. And I go, oh my God. I go, God, every woman wants to hear that someone doors her, that a man adores her. And he had remembered that.

And he had that inscribed in my rain and then he had dinner reservations and he had the white horse and carriage around the indie circle. Take us to Del Frisco's. I mean, it was perfect. And then this man who said, you know, I'll help you raise your brother and everything. And so the first years were just amazing.

Like, even though we had to deal with the Rocky stuff, it was like, you know, we just adored each other. We were just in love and lost everything, you know? And then the years go by and, you know, everything happens and. Communication breaks down and you're so busy working and you're in your own lives. And then back to the fact that we're all on our individual journeys and Kevin was on this journey and he had so much healing and so much growth that he had to do.

Here's a guy who played sports his entire life and, you know, made it professional. Although. In baseball, when you make it professional, there's so many levels with a ball and AA and AAA, and you just don't make the money that you know, your brother who's a year and three, uh, who's 13 months older than you is in the NFL and is making millions and all of a sudden you're 28 years old, your arm shot.

You're done with, you're done with sports. That's been your identity. It's been your whole life. It's been your love and you have to try to find your way. So he was drinking and to still feel like he was in, had a piece of the action. He was gambling. So it was like the thrill, like still riding, like something in the game, you know, that kind of thing.

And I had said early on to him, even before we got married, because the first, uh, three months, two and a half months that we dated, he, I didn't know this, but he was on a sobriety thing that his work and his best friends had all said, If he didn't go, if he didn't prove that he could be sober and clean, that they were going to like check him in.

And so I got to know that Kevin, and so then he slowly started drinking again, played softball and stuff like that. And I remember I told him one night, I said, He called me. And I could always, I don't know what it is about Kevin, but I can always, there's an intonation, a change in his vocal chords or something that I hear it's not slurring or anything like that, that I always know when he's drinking.

And I remember he called me, we weren't engaged at the time. It was two and a half months in. And I said, he called and said he was done with, uh, softball. He was gonna come over. And I said, have you been drinking? And he's like, yeah. He's like, I had a couple of beers with the guys and I was like, oh, okay.

I'm like, he's like, so I'm going to come over. And I'm like, yeah, no, don't come over. And he's like, what do you mean? Don't come over. I go, listen, I go, you're a great guy. I go, but I'm at a point in my life now where I know what I want in my life. And I know what I don't want in my life. And I said, I feel like our job is to be fully present in this life that we have and to learn and grow.

And so I just really don't want to be with anybody who like is not fully present. And I'm like, and anybody on drugs or alcohol is not fully present. So like you're. Don't come over tonight. Don't come over ever again. And I remember hanging up the phone and like a half an hour late. He strikes calling me back and everything and half an hour later, boom, boom, boom.

On my apartment. And I opened the door and he comes in and he's just destroying. I didn't know, he had already bought me my engagement ring and here I am like, no, just don't come over tonight or ever again. So he puts, he he's like, I understand how much I love you. Like, how can you tell me not to come over?

He's like, if you don't want, if you don't want me to drink, I won't drink. He's like, and then he, he was drunk because he had been drinking beers and he's like, you don't even understand, this is how much I love. And he puts a receipt on the dining table. Well, that set me off. I was like, you think you can buy me.

You think you can? And I mean, I went off. I was like, I don't know who the hell you think you are. You, I'm not one of those rights that you can buy. I'm like, I don't even want to see that receipt. I'm like, I am so insulted. I'm like get outta here. So I go back to my bedroom. He comes back there. He's just like, Joanne, Joanne, please.

Like, and I'm like, no, seriously. I'm like, you're a great guy. I'm like, and if you want a drink, I'm like, I just, I don't want to be with somebody who's drinking or on drugs. He's like, I won't drink. I said, you seriously are going to tell me that you love me and you want to be with me that much, that I'm telling you, I don't want to be with somebody who's going to drink.

So you're not going to drink. He's like, I won't. Now mind you I'm naive. I don't understand that alcoholism is a disease. And like, this is like more than just, I'm not going to drink. And so, you know, we, we made up or whatever in the morning I get up, I get ready. And he's like, you looked at that receipt.

And I was like, no, I didn't look at the receipt. And I'm like, and if you ever try to do something as disgusting as that again, I'm like, we will be through done. I'm like, you cannot buy me. I'm like take the receipt. I don't even want what that is. I don't know what it is. He's like, you swear to God, you didn't look.

Um, and I I'm telling you, like, I wouldn't look at it cause I was disgusted by the fact that he thought he could put a receipt on the table. That's how much I love you. Like, oh, that's going to change everything. You bought me something. What was the receipt to the ring?

So, anyway, so through this time of being married to him and they, beginning years, he tried, you know, and he never drank around me and he never drank. You know, Rocky or anything like that. So I just naively thought, but I didn't know all the struggles that he was going through. And then you make one bad bet and you're in a hole and then you think, okay, well this next week it's a sure thing.

And I'm going to get out of the hole. And if I could just get out of a hole, um, you know, I won't bet anymore, but like now I got to get out of the hole and then he knows how much money. Is very, I don't want to say important to me because I've been with it and I've been without it I've been with nothing, but to me, money is, um, sacred.

And the fact that you have to be smart with it and you have to work hard for it and you have to save and you have to be responsible, et cetera. And so I always have. I always had money in S I w even if it was only $10 or $5 a week out of a paycheck that I was putting in savings, I was doing that. And I remember I would go to the grocery store with $10 and I buy, I buy a couple heads of lettuce.

I buy a frozen thing of green beans. I buy catch-up. I buy like. I ate disgusting, but as cheap as I possibly could, because I wanted to put money into savings. So he's, he's he knows, like he can't go into our savings account. Cause then I'm going to know something's going on. So he keeps trying to, so to say, I say all this, because he was living a totally separate life.

And when you're living. A totally separate life and trying to hide and now looking at it and with your whole fear journey, like the fear that he was in constantly and the decisions he was making and fear and everything. So you just start to grow apart. And I felt, even though I was in the relationship, I felt very lonely because he wasn't present, even though he wasn't in my mind drinking or whatever.

So. We just, you know, you just like all of a sudden, it's just, you're, it's almost you find yourself like two roommates, you know? And so now we have a teenager, Rocky, we have Tommy, you know, a little, you know, little one and, you know, he is the most unbelievable father I have ever seen. And I respect him and love him so much for the.

As a father that he has been ever since Tommy was a tiny baby, like he's just an incredible father. And, um, you know, Tommy becomes your priority and work and everything, and you're just, you're just like two strangers. And so then, you know, you grow apart and then we moved from India to Arizona and he starts a new job, which was a great.

Promotion for him. He B he went to another company, became the vice president and he built a sales team. He more than doubled their numbers. And, you know, he was, he was so successful and doing so well, but that also took a lot of time and a lot of energy. And here I was out in Arizona. I didn't know anybody.

I left Indiana. I loved Indiana. And. I wasn't working for the first time in my life, since the seventh grade I've been working full time. And so I, I had said to him, well, you know what I said, I had been working since I was in the seventh grade. If we're going to go out to Arizona and I really don't want to move out there, then I think I don't want to work for the first time in my life.

I've been working for so long and he was like, that's fine. He's like, you don't have to work. So I came out to India, Arizona, I wasn't working. And then that's when I realized that. That's not me. I'm not wired that way. Like he never, ever, I had control of all the budget, the finances, everything. He never ever questioned me if I wanted, but because I wasn't bringing in any income, I was like, oh, I can't go get my hair done.

I'm going to go to the store and buy the bottle. And, you know, and you know, I'm not going to because I wasn't bringing anything in. And then I was. Home mom, the at-home mom. Right? So I don't work. So of course, every volunteer thing at Tommy's school, everything like everything always fell on me. And I just got to the point where I was like, you know what, I'm not wired up this way.

And I'm just as busy now as I was when I was working. So let me go get a paycheck. So then I went to real estate school, I got my license. I wrote down a goal. I'm like my first year, I want to make X amount, you know, Talk about fear. I faked it till I made it, you know? And, um, but in doing that, I, um, I went to, I, I found the brokerage.

I wanted to go to, I went to the broker and I was like, okay, who is your top sales producer in this office? And she told me, and I was like, okay. I went, I knocked on his door. I introduced myself. I said, how would you like a free assistant for awhile? Cause I know how I learn. And I learned by watching and doing and seeing, and he's like, yeah.

And I'm like, all right. So I started doing the files. I've listened to every single phone call he made. I started going out with him when he was showing houses. Um, you know, just, and that's how I learned. And then the first few deals that I actually brought in. I be, I would say, you know, my partner and I would give, I would split it with him because then if they had a question that I couldn't answer, I'd be like, that's a great question.

You know? And I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll have the answer for you in an hour or whatever. And, and that's how I got, but you're working so intimately with a male that all of a sudden now. Is thinking you're great because you're like not only taking care of his files, looking up to him, hanging on every word that he's saying, because you're learning from him and, and you're splitting stuff with him, 50 50, and all of a sudden you have that intimacy, which had gone away from our marriage and you find yourself in a relationship.

With that person. And at first it's just all emotional. It's just all emotional, you know? And because your husband's not present and you go home and, you know, it's his face lights up when he sees Tommy, you know, his face doesn't light up when he sees you, you know? And you know, I, I did, I had an affair. I had a physical affair.

Yeah, I, it it's so far, it also also a lot of it to justify it in my own being, because if you would have said to, to, to myself or spoke to my spirit, anytime in the past to say that that would be possible that I could do something like that. It would be absolutely not because that's just not something that I would ever do.

I would leave the marriage first. It's it's not, it's not honorable. It's not it's it's, it's so disrespectful. It's not. And so in my mind though, I justified it by, I literally was like, but Lord, I've been doing everything. My whole life for everybody else. Like, I've always been taking care of everybody else, but what about me?

What is my time? Like, I just want a little bit of, I just want a little bit for me, like this is for me, like, he makes me feel good. You know, he listens to me, he, he builds me up. He, he gives to me, I don't have to, this is like my time, like when is it ever going to be my time? And that's how I justify it.

And Kevin and his spirit knew like something was going on and, you know, obviously I would deny it. I would deny it. And, um, but the whole time too, even though I would be like, this is my time now, like I've always done for everybody else. This is for me now. Like, I'm okay, this is all right. Like I deserve some time for me.

And, um, Inside. Like, I always knew like, that's it, this isn't me like this isn't right. This doesn't. And it's so hard to say because you're doing it because you feel like, oh, this is my time. And this is for me. And he gives to me, but yet at the same time, it didn't feel right. Nothing about it felt. Right. I can't explain it unless you like, you like go through it and.

And then I got to the point where, um, I was like, I can't do this anymore. Like I just, like, I have to separate from Kevin. Like we have to, and it wasn't, it wasn't to be with this guy. Cause in my heart of hearts, I knew that I would never want to be this. I would never want to be with that other guy. And I remember going to bed one night.

And in the interim, you know, this is when the market had tanked. Um, and, um, real estate was crazy. Uh, you know, and so I was supplementing my income to real estate by, um, buying a house. I'd buy a house and I'd flip it. And I was doing all this on my own, and I had bought a house and I, I went in and I flipped it and I, um, and I was going to put it on the market to sell it.

And something told me inside, well, you can, you can put this on the market and you can sell it and you you'll make a good turn. But if you keep this house. This house is going to be worth a lot of money. And if you leave Kevin, like you can go into this house, you can move into it. Cause it was literally a half a mile from our house to that other house.

And so I went to bed that night, thinking about what furniture I was going to take from this house and where I was going to put it in that house and to move me, my mom and Tommy and to the other house. And I went, yeah. Let me just back up Friday night, it was a high school football, local high school football, Kevin and Tommy were at the high school football game.

And now mind you, my life is work and Tommy sports at this point, you know, everything was revolving around Tommy sports. And then Saturday was Tommy's football game in the morning. And then you came home from the football field and it was, um, college football all day. And then Sunday. It was NFL football.

And I remember I was with the guys Friday, Saturday, Sunday, all day. But when I wasn't at the games, I would go into the bedroom and I was reading a book and it was Sunday night. And I was like, this is nuts. Like Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and everything revolved around. Those guys and football and like, they could care less whether I was alive or dead, I'm in my room reading a book.

So that's when I went to bed that Sunday night, thinking about going into the other house and moving my stuff Monday morning, I went into Kevin's office. I said, I need to talk to you. He said, okay. I said, I'm not happy. And he goes, well, you haven't been for a long time. And I go, yeah, that's true. And I'm like, I want to, I want to split up, I've been thinking about this.

I'm like, I'll go and I'll move into the Corolla house. And I thought he was going to be like, no, no, no, no. Like, cause he always. Whenever I would get to the point where I was like, this is not working. I am not happy, whatever. He'd always be like, no, no, no, no. Well, you know, I'll do better. I'll, you know, we'll, we'll work it out.

And then he'd give me a little bit of attention and then it'd go right back to what it was. He said, I'll move into that house. And I was like, shocked. Cause I, I was waiting for him to be like, no, like what can we do? Let's work it out. Like, and. He said, I'll go into that house. Cause I travel. It's a smaller house.

You and your mom and Tommy shouldn't have to be, you know, relocated, you guys stay here. I was like, I can't afford to stay here. And he's like, I'll make sure you can afford to stay here. And so through it all, even through the breakup, Kevin has always, Kevin has always shown me who he is. And the essence of Kevin is such a good man that it blows my mind.

And so even through all that, he was like, you know, now mind you, he also was, at this point, he knew I had had an affair. I didn't realize it, but he was literally inside himself thinking, well, I deserve that. Doing all this over here. So like, this is what happens, you know, I deserve her doing that to me, which nobody deserves anybody doing that to them.

But anyway, so we split up, we were very amicable. Um, I told Kevin, I said, you travel so much whenever you're in town. You can have Tommy, no questions asked, like, you know, he, he can go over there. I went over there. I decorated the place for him. I put towels plates every, like, I made it nice for them. Tommy loved that house because it was a total guy place.

Like he could have his basketball hoop on the, on the door and in the room with the big vaulted ceilings. He had a ping pong table, like when Kevin and I got back together, Tommy, Tommy was like, I was like, wait, no more, no more corral house. I was like, no, but anyway, talk about fear. The fear that that was so strong that I faced was more in the beginning.

The fear was actually separating, breaking up a family. And then the biggest fear was. Telling Tommy and how this would affect Tommy. And I'll never forget it. We sat him down at this point, Kevin and I were both in counseling individually and then together and we sat Tommy down and we said to him, you know, you know how much mommy and daddy love you?

Um, you know, over time, uh, You know, we get so busy with our lives and with work and with, you know, things that are going on. We've kind of like grown apart and we've like separated. So we're going to like take a little separation time and dad's going to go over to that house and everything. And in time he was nine years old.

He started to smile and we're like, you know, Kevin and I are crying and we're like, Tommy, what, what? What's fun. And he's like, well, I'll never forget this. He goes, I'm just trying to figure out how separation is going to help your separation. And Kevin and I looked at each other and were like, what? Where is this kid coming from?

Because that really was, I mean, that's really what he was thinking like, but you guys just said you've grown apart. So how is separating going to help your separation? You know? And so we did it, it was, it was good. It was like Tommy felt secure and everything. He was good. Um, we did get to a point where, um, We had to say that during the school week, though, even if your dad was home, like during school time and school week, you would always be at my house just because it was too much like the back and forth, even though it was only a half a mile apart, it was like for school, he needed to be in one place, like come home, have that routine, do his homework, all that kind of thing.

And then when Tommy was 15. Now mind you, Kevin and I never on paper got divorced because, and that was another agreement that we had made. And with always the understanding that when one of us was, you know, met somebody and was moving on or whatever that was when we were going to have to, you know, do that filed the divorce papers.

So I was having kind of a nervous, a little bit of a nervous breakdown because I was looking at myself and my. And I was literally like, wow, I, and I was in my bathroom and I was like, I never thought I'd my I'd be here. Like, like what happened like this? You know? And I had been alone, um, for a while now.

Like no guys in my life. Not Kevin, not anybody. Like I just wanted to do it on myself and I never had a problem living on my own. Like, I, I actually loved it. Like the temperature in the house can be what I, what I want it to be. The TV can be on or off what I wanted on, you know, I have a whole closet to myself house.

Exactly. Like I left it when I, you know, like I love being alone in my house. Like no, no problems. Never scared. Never. No. So I was in a good place there. I had great girlfriends, but I just was like, is this like, what? Like, I felt like all of a sudden in my forties I was having to start all over. Like, and Tommy came back in the bathroom and he said something to me and I can't remember what it was.

And I remember saying to him, Tommy, you don't understand. And you will one day, but right now you, you don't understand. And I was getting a little emotional and he came over to me and he hugged me. And when he hugged me, I started to cry like heavy. And then he, he separated from me and he looked at me and he said, mom, I said, I, and I said to him, I said, Tommy.

I said, I never thought I'd be starting my life all over again. And my forties I'm like, this is, you just don't understand. And he said, mom, he said, why don't you, why don't you find a church? He goes, why don't you, why don't you, why don't you volunteer? Because I know that when you, when, when you're connected to God and when you're helping people like that makes you happy.

And I just, I just looked at him. And then I just hugged him. And I just said, thank you. I'm like, I don't know where you came from, but thank you. And I remember getting in my car, he was going over to his dad's house and I remember getting in my car and I was like, he's right. I need to find a church. And I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a list of churches.

I'm going to try out. And then Kevin and I would always celebrate holidays together because we only have one son and he wanted to be around Tommy. I want to be around. So it was Christmas. And, um, he said, you know, what are your plans? I said, I plan on taking Tommy to KA candlelight service at impact. And he's like, well, I'll go.

And I'm like, okay. So he went with us and then we came home. We, we, um, opened some presents Christmas Eve and then the following week towards, I think it was maybe a Thursday, the following. I got a text from him and he said, are you going to church this Sunday? And I said, I go to church every Sunday now, or every weekend now.

And he said, would you mind company? And I read that text and I was like, oh. And so I, I said, sure. And so he came, but we would drive separate, you know, but we would sit by each other and then every weekend he was like going and in the interim, I had been praying. Um, and I wrote on an index card and still in my Bible and I wrote on an index card, Lord, if I'm ever to fall in love again, please let it be with a man whose heart is connected to you.

And I put that in my Bible and a year goes by and Kevin's going to church every weekend. Tommy's going to church. And, um, and then, uh, Tommy got accepted into Brophy. Which is a private school here. It's, it's hard to get in like, oh, thousands of kids, you know, apply and Tommy got in. And so then, um, we were like, wow, okay, now we have this whopping tuition to pay.

And I was like, all right, well, the reality is you travel so much. I'm like, it's probably going to be better if we get you a small apartment down by. And you let me rent that the house, because we can get a lot more money for rent for the house. And then the rent will help pay we'll pay for the tuition.

But before that happened, I was like, before we find you a place, like you can move back into the house, into the guest room on the second floor. So he moved into that. That transition. We did all through our therapist. You know, how is that going to look like? Cause we don't know how long he's going to be in that room.

What does it look like when Joanne's getting dressed up to go out on a Friday night and you're there and you see her leaving that, you know, like that was a whole, how, how is this gonna affect Tommy? Like, we don't want to confuse Tommy and all these things, like all these elements and we worked through all that.

So at this point he's living in the, in the guest room upstairs. Still in my mind, like Kevin and I were done, like there was so much hurt and pain. We had betrayed each other on the worst levels like that. We possibly could. He hurt me in the financial aspect and the, the, the lying aspect of the alcohol and everything.

And then I heard. In a way that hurt him most was, you know, the physical and emotional being attached to another man, that kind of thing, you know? And so it was like, that was done. You know, we'd always be connected because at Tommy I'd always respect and love him because of the man. He is a good man and he is an incredible father, but like we were done and then, um, just living our lives and then.

You know, he's going to church, he's going to men's Bible study. Like he's asking me questions about the Bible and I'm just like, wow. You know, and I would still go with him to work on his yearly rewards trips. And so he had asked me if I would go on this one, it was to Hawaii. And I was like, yeah, I will.

And so. We went, we took customers out that night and we were going to get an Uber back and he said, no, let's, let's walk w and I'll walk back. And I was like, no, and I'm thinking along the lines, like, no, we need to go in the Uber with the clients because we need to pay for the Uber. We need to make sure that, and he was like, no, no, well, we're walking along.

And he starts talking to me and he's like, you know, he said, I've been on this journey with God, and I don't know where it's going, but I see. What it's done in you. And I, I want that for me. And I'm not saying this or doing this to try to impress you or to win you back. I just feel like I'm at halftime.

And I was so moved by what he was saying to me. And then the next thing I know, he pulls out, he pulls out a ring and it's my original stone, but it's completely redundant. And he says, I just feel like I'm at a halftime. And I just want to know if you want to go to the second half with me for the win. I was just so blown away and that's how God works.

Cause I was asking if I was ever to fall in love again with what could it be with a man, make sure it was with a man whose heart was connected to you. And. He just so happened to make it Kevin and connect Kevin's heart in a way that I'd never seen before to God. And so then we just continued our journey and there's been so much, there's been so much healing.

I know that one of the fears that I had even saying yes for the second time was. Okay, but what if he starts drinking again? What if he starts gambling again? And I don't know it like, well, you know, he goes on the road all the time. Like I still had that fear and I still had that, you know, and I'll never forget, a friend of mine asked me and he said, what do you need from Kevin to help you to build that trust?

And it sounds crazy, but I was like, honestly, I said, if he would just randomly like, let me give him at home alcohol tests. I said, I'm not worried so much about the gambling, because if there's no alcohol, if he's not drinking, he's in his right mind. And he's not, he's not making foolish decisions. I'm like, so that in itself, And I remember going back to Kevin and being like, okay, I need to ask you something like, and I know this is going to be weird.

And I don't mean this for this to be degrading to you because I acknowledge all your growth and everything you've done. And I'm proud of you. And, but this is what they asked me. And I thought about this. And I thought, you know, with every time that I just randomly test you and you're clean, like that's just going to help me build.

That trust back. And he was just like, if that's what you need, that's what you need. And I don't have a problem with it. It just him saying like, sure, if that's what you need, like, that was just huge to me. You know? And, and then I, you know, I asked him, I'm like, what do you need from me? You know, to build that trust back and.

His answer was more simple. He's like, I just need you to be the Joanne that I know, you know, because I know, you know, I know that Joanne and you know, and you know, obviously you do, I do little things where it's like, my phone is an open book. You can get into my phone, you can see anything like I like, and I'm always going to tell you how I'm feeling.

Like I'm always going to tell you, like, I'm feeling lonely. I feel neglected. Like we haven't, you know, we haven't spent time together or those kinds of things. And honestly, the biggest thing, the thing that I always wanted from him now was to really, to be present, to be fully present with me, like, and that's such a gift that he gives me because yeah.

My mom was never fully present. I remember always looking at my mom and seeing the physical body, but like her eyes, she always seemed just so blank and like, she was like not there. And I learned that. That she was so disconnected from herself because of the self-loathing. Like she couldn't be there fully present.

My, when my parents divorced, you know, my dad went back to Israel. Like I didn't see my dad for 23 years, you know? And, and so like, I just wanted somebody to be fully present with me and on this journey and, and, and, and trying to learn and grow. Every single day to be the best possible version of you that you can be.

And I used to always tell Kevin, and I still, I just believe this with my heart. I'm like you at your best, nobody can touch you pike. Kevin Trudeau at his best is so miles apart from anybody that I've ever met in my life. Like, because he would, you know, I just, I just know, I just want him to know that, like I saw that I wanted him to know that.

And so him being on that journey and being willing to learn, to grow, to, to talk about everything, like I want to talk about everything. He comes from a family. I'm like your family, there could be a big pink elephant in the room and everybody will talk to everybody and nobody will mention that was. And his family nicknamed me.

They're like, oh yeah, the white Oprah. Cause I'm always asking questions and I'm always like, let's talk, let's talk. How do you feel about that? Like what's going on? Like yeah. Oh, the white Oprah here she comes like, so, and he gives me all of that now and more, and I'm so honored and blessed and God is so good.

I'm in a relationship now that I, I could have never, in my mind, even as great as Kevin is, I could have never thought that he could have reached the depth that he is at now, and that we would have the depth and the vulnerability and the, and the love. And so, like, I like to say, like I love now is like, it's got, it's not all shiny.

And brand new. It's got all these scuff marks on it and it's, it's, you know, but it's deep and it's rooted and it's like a precious antique that is actually worth more than it was before when it was new and it was fresh and it was less than it was. Ah, you know, and you're just like, everything's wonderful.

Like it's, it's so much better.

Tiffany: Yeah, I just so appreciate your telling that story. It's like, um, you know, I don't know why it is because it is as simple as like saying what we need out loud and like fi it's for some reason, there's this mountain that fear creates that. We start to be afraid of what will happen if we do.

And we spend all this energy going around the mountain, you know, and all of these self-destructive ways pick your poison, right? Some of it's maybe not outwardly as visible, but the same things happen in our minds, you know? And so I just, I think the courage to be able to, to accept being wrong, I think that's hard.

Isn't it? To say, like I was wrong and it's not all that I am and I have to choose and figure out like how to move forward from here courageously. I just think it's so beautiful that you're, I don't know, willing to step into it, willing to share it. We all have our things. And when we can own that with as much, um, what much confident.

As we can own the talents of the good that God has put in us. I just think there's so much that can be impacted. So

Jet: 27 years ago, I said, yes, it was the first yes. Full of naivety and a promise to many things that are unknown. It was a significant yes, as it started us on our journey together as husband and wife. But today as I stand here before you, our son, our family and friends, it seems to me that this yes. Means so much more.

It's not just a yes. For better or worse. It's a, yes. That has seen and lived the better and the worst. It's a yes. That not only says I do, but says I still do. It's a, yes, it says undoubtedly. I always will. But most of all, it's a, yes, it says, thank you. Thank you for loving me through the better and the absolute worst.

Thank you for being the most incredible father to our son and to my brother, Rocky. Thank you for having the biggest heart and loving my family the way you do. Thank you for working on yourself and being the best you for me and for yourself, for our family. And for God, thank you for being my friend, my confident, my protector provider and my safe Harbor, but the biggest, thank you goes to God for bringing us together then and prefer for restoring us to where we are now.

Kevin Thomas Trudeau, you are the true love of my life today. I say, yes, he's still doing. And thank you. I love you.

Tiffany: As I listened to jet story, there were two, I think major themes that I connected with the first was her courage to go first. Her courage to stand up and her family, her courage to be used in so many ways that were incredibly unselfish. You know, when you look at the pattern of relationship that she could have chosen to perpetuate, you know, hurtful, selfish behavior, or finally choosing other people first and to see just the halo effect that that has brought healing and closeness and forgiveness.

I just, I see. So clearly in her story that she had. Selfless courage to go first. And I think that can be really hard, especially when you also feel hurt in the whole situation. And, um, I think we all have a lot that we can learn from that. And the second thing, you know, as I get older and Jr and I have been married, not quite 20 years, you really start to pay attention to those people who have been together for a really long time.

Because again, it's like the most vibrant relationships I have found often I've not been perfect the whole way. And so to really listen quietly to what they have learned to the tools that they use, the vulnerability, the courage that they have, the honesty that they have. I think that really is the marriage that I seek to have as I get older and for Jett and Kevin to really gift.

The journey of their relationship to the rest of us. It's just amazing. And, you know, I shared at the beginning of this, that we were invited into their vowel renewal, and again, to like publicly stand and say, like, we choose each other again. And I've, I heard Esther Perel has said, all of us are married more than one time.

But many of us is to the same person. And I found that to be true in my own relationship that we do have to choose each other. Again, we change as people, the circumstances change the environment, change tragedy happens, wealth habits, all different kinds of things happen to change the ingredients of sort of when we first met.

And when we first came together and choosing to grow together can be really hard. And I think it can be hard work and we want our relationships to be easy, but they aren't always. And so, I don't know, I just have our renewed courage and my honesty and my own relationship and the whole project of scare confident.

When we share vulnerably, it gives other people the courage to live vulnerably and we, uh, we can help each other grow. And so I'm so grateful to jet, um, for just her bravery and her generosity and her beautiful, beautiful spirit.

This is an especially special episode for me because jet used the fear interview. The self-guided fear interview that we put together with Nathaniel. If you would like a copy as well, please text me, text the word, fear to 3 1 7 3 5 0 8 9 2 1 3 1 7 3 5 0 8 9 2 1. The word fear.

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