Pure grit, a little stubbornness and a whole lot of determination with CJ DuBé

Tiffany Sauder: This interview is with CJ DuBé. I was speaking at the EOS conference and somebody came over to me and said, you have got to have her on your podcast. She needs to tell her story. And I said, okay, let's do it. So you guys get to hear alongside me as I learn about CJ's story. She is 20 years ahead of me.

And has this like incredibly vivacious, crazy energy, the heart of an entrepreneur, the soul of a visionary. And she and her husband have seven kids. and so we talked about how do you put 40,000 pounds in a 10 pound bag and really live a life that you're proud of? And, talked a lot about the role that rest needs to play in our ability to be able to be.

Good for a really long time. So I loved this conversation with cj. she is an EOS implementer, so if you know the language, she helps companies implement e os, and also does a lot of training for e os international. Listen in as I have a conversation with CJ Dubay,

CJ DuBe: so I'll start with this question and then you can take it where you want. I've met you one time, we were in proximity together for

Tiffany Sauder: maybe 15 minutes or less, like very short, just to give listeners that. And it is clear in that short instance of time with you, the excellence is a standard for you. I just experienced that. That's who you are. It's in you and I have. Observed, I think in my life that excellence is not an accidental condition. so there are things that have taught you that, like it's just clear the way you present yourself, the way that you make I just, all of it. It's like, uh, she's clearly a package of excellence, that's her standard. Um, so tell me what informed that for you and what about life has led you to that?

CJ DuBe: when you say excellence, it's kinda like saying mastery, right? And mastery never ends. So I wouldn't go as far as to say that I, that Sure I'm a perfectionist in certain areas and I want things certain ways, but I'm also a. Driver. Driver, quick start that goes fast and wants things certain ways, but I'm willing to let go too.And when you said the word excellence, literally what popped in my head was my father. My father in so many ways was my mentor, my catalyst, my, you know, there's a lot of Jekyll and Hyde that went on with him, but he taught me to be sophisticated, to be. Classy to be clear, to be direct and at moments.

I'm a bull in a China shop because I am so direct and so I work really hard to know who I'm talking to, who I'm with, and I don't give myself up, but I do mirror to a certain degree. I, I want to be able to appeal to. People that are in front of me, and I think the clearest way is to say it, is doing e o s and doing everything I've done in my life. I've had a passion for it, or I can't do  it if I don't love what I do. Even owning my own business prior. If I don't love it, I'm not gonna bring it. And I wanna bring it for the benefit of all the people in front of me.

Tiffany Sauder: what did your dad do? what was in his life that demonstrated that to you?

CJ DuBe: he was in sales and he was a top performer for, the large gas company in Minnesota. but sometimes it's not what they do. That's great. It's what they don't do. That teaches you. And he always wanted to be an entrepreneur and my mother would never let him quit the corporate

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: because she felt, she needed security. She financially, she wasn't a risk taker, he was more of a risk taker. So we ended up having a lot of properties, rentals, which I would go with him too. So I saw a lot of that. But if you really want me to get real and raw, He was an alcoholic.

Tiffany Sauder: Hmm

CJ DuBe: He, it was the day of the martinis

Tiffany Sauder: mm-hmm. Totally. In sales. It was very rich. Yeah.

CJ DuBe: Right, it was, he was raised in the days of the martinis and, and he didn't have a father being raised.His mother raised him. And so there's a fair amount of really good that I saw in him, and there was a fair amount of, Evil, mad anger. but at the end of the day, I never hurt for a thing. I was raised basically middle class. he was a high functioning alcoholic and I love you, dad. You've been gone 28 years now. So he, he died at the age of 59 of throat cancer. He literally had to talk with one of the machines.

Tiffany Sauder: wow. CJ.

CJ DuBe: So our voices changed and he healed. And I think the best picture to describe how he changed was at his funeral in small town rural Minnesota, 500 people there, and you had the Jim Lehman.Tom Lehman's dad insurance agent was one of his good friends. Was there. And then there was this gentleman who, I don't remember his name, and he was about six foot eight, and he had a biker jacket on and tattoos up and down his  arms, which was not character that I was used to. And he came up to me and he told me that my dad had saved his life because he took him to and from three days a week to aa.

Tiffany Sauder: Wow.

CJ DuBe: So we healed a lot in those years of cancer. As terrible as cancer is, we had a lot of healing and he told me, cj, the last two years of my life have been the best two years of my life. So when he left this earth, all said, I'm be damned the last two years of my life, we're not gonna be the best two years of my life. So I've been living with that motto for a long

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, so tell me your journey, cj, you grew up, where are you in your birth order?

CJ DuBe: I have one brother and I am the oldest, and Yes. I have all of

Tiffany Sauder: Yes. I would've guessed that. Yes, we all, we can find each other. We oldest children

CJ DuBe: especially oldest daughters of fathers I remember your talk, how you had some influence with your father. Right.

Tiffany Sauder: I mean, for sure. Yes, yes.

CJ DuBe: Our fathers influence us, which is a great thing. spent ultimately 30 years in the placement industry. So I did, I. Everything from HR to it, to legal, to banking, to finance, you name it, I did placement, both contract placement and permanent placement.Once upon a time, I worked for that large international staffing firm where I had five divisions downtown, Minneapolis, and great teams. And I just got to the point where the layers were getting more and more and more, and I was entrepreneurial, and so I'd have an idea. I'd throw the idea out and they'd come back six weeks later and I go, yeah, I tried.It didn't work. and I go, well, we approved it. I go, yeah, it didn't work because I did it anyway. So then I left. I left, and I had the bug to be an entrepreneur. It was just in me. I knew I wanted to do it. So two things happened, and of course they happened simultaneous. One, I bought a franchise, so I owned a massage center where I had eight rooms of 15 employees. Then an offer came through to partner with an HR contract consulting firm and build it from scratch. So I was the founder and built it up from zero to 8 million in three years. At the same time, I was doing the massage center on weekends,

Tiffany Sauder: Wow.

CJ DuBe: and I had seven children.You didn't know I had seven

Tiffany Sauder: no. You have seven children.

CJ DuBe: I have seven children and 12 grandchildren.

Tiffany Sauder: my goodness. I had no, I knew you had kids. You have seven kids.

CJ DuBe: Yes.

Tiffany Sauder: two businesses, so what were their ages in that season?

CJ DuBe: so my husband and I blended, 27 years ago, and he had three, and I had three. And they're all a year to 18 months apart, except we have an ours. And Logan is 24 and the oldest is 40, and there's eight years between Logan and the next oldest.

Tiffany Sauder: So he's like only almost an only.

CJ DuBe: he is like an only, so anyone that wants to talk about her birth order or any of those kinds of things.Yeah, I can cover just little pieces of everything.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

CJ DuBe: Right. So the massage center though, the beautiful thing about that was is my daughters were in high school and so they all worked in the massage center and learned a little bit about entrepreneurship because at the end of the day, they ran it. They were there during weeks.They were able to take work study programs where they could get out at one and they'd go work for the rest of the afternoon. And so all my daughters, four of them, are very independent, very strong, and know how to be an entrepreneur and have their own businesses.

Tiffany Sauder: So how do they talk about that experience and, you were living this path in a different time?

CJ DuBe: I know.

Tiffany Sauder: Right. Can we just say that on the microphone? Like really, I feel like now at this stage, like very applauded that I have all these ideas of things I wanna go do as a strong, independent woman. I'm using quotation marks and I have four daughters and so I'm such an example to my daughters to raise them to be strong, independent, like this is the narrative of today. But that was not the narrative of your time,

CJ DuBe: It was my narrative though. a couple of things. first marriage wasn't great. We're not gonna go deep diving into that right now, so I learned that I needed to be financially sound myself, I think I always was even before that, but when someone told me I had to have dinner on the table at five, yeah, that wasn't

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: That's not who I was. And so, I've told all my daughters, you need to be strong and independent and be able to take care of yourself and have equal relationships in your marriages. And I would tell you they all have that. Some have taken longer to get that. My two birth daughters get it really strong. They're entrepreneurs of their own right? They work, they have good relationships. have had bad relationships and learned from the bad relationships. I want all my children to be strong though. I've never had it be about, yes, I want my daughters to be strong, but I want my sons to be strong too.But I want my sons to be respectful. Appreciate women that choose to work. I have, uh, that have a that do not work, but that's their choice and they're great partners together. So my theme just to say, I want people to be able to be strong and do what they love doing and take care of themselves so they can take care of their children. cause for me it was how am I gonna take care of my children? Still passionately love and do what I do.

Tiffany Sauder: Do you look back at that season? I think the great boogeyman. Okay. I'll disclaim it as mine. The great boogeyman. in my own head. Is that because, how 'can I ask you how old you are cj?

CJ DuBe: I am 60.

Tiffany Sauder: so, I'm 42. So you're at a place where you're reflecting on your 40 year old self, and the choices that I made. would I do it differently? Would I see it differently and did my kids, like I'm really asking myself all the time, are my kids gonna be all right? You know, like, I've got from 14 to two year olds and the, the choices that I make have consequence in their life. Some of them are wildly amazing, like they get to go to Europe when they're 10 and they get to go wherever they want.

Some of them, it requires sacrifice from them that sometimes I'm gone overnight and that's harder the next morning before school, and I'm okay with the fact that their life is not always exactly as they want it to be. I think that's important, but I also know there's choices I'm making for them that they may look back and say, I wish you would've made different choices, mom.I don't know. Um, but do your. Kids talk about the maniac that is your brain and your ambition and your passion, and you're just like, bro, I gotta get this outta me. Do they be like, mom, you're crazy. And I love it. And it was great. Yeah.

CJ DuBe: Still, they're adults and they say, mom, you're crazy. Um, here, here, I'll tell you a little story. So we'll tell you two things. One, I used to anguish all the time on how do I. Feed myself, do the roles that I wanted to do and yet meet the expectations and the demand of the role I was doing.'cause the expectations and the demand, whether you own your own business or you're sitting at a senior leadership seat, it doesn't matter. They're demands that come with it. And I truly wanted to meet those demands, but there was many times I felt like I was in duality over it. And I was in conflict because part of me was like, I wanna be home with my children.Part of me was, no, I want to go off and speak and do this thing. Right? And so I spent a lot of time, here's Gino's line. We all deserve seven years of therapy and I'm probably on year 14 or 15. So there was a lot of therapy in my life. Um, but someone said to me, Cj, the number one thing a child wants is for you to be 100% present with them. I instituted things like Wednesday night, kids night dinner out when dad was golfing, just me. And we'd go out to dinner and we'd laugh and have fun. 'cause they were usually middle school, high school. Right. And I had Logan, like you, I had a 14 year old. and a two year old.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah.

CJ DuBe: actually had a newborn and a 14 year old almost, but yes, similar.so I made sure I was very, very, very present still do that. I still will say, I'm gonna take this grandchild. I took three girls to play in Minneapolis just so I could give them individual time. So that's the one thing that stuck with me and they remember it. It's those memories that matter.I'm never gonna be the grandma that picks you up after school and, and is your daycare provider. It's not me. I'm not it. The other thing though, I will tell you is some of probably experienced it 'cause you've done e o s,

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: the Team Health exercises, right?  question in personal histories is, what's the hardest thing for you growing up? Well, sitting, having a happy hour with one of my daughters. Getting into a deep conversation. I asked her that question, what was the hardest thing for you growing up?One, she said being a middle child. 'cause she was in the middle

Tiffany Sauder: Hmm.

CJ DuBe: and she said two. My mom not being around as much as I wanted, was fact. But she said, fast forward, be as strong or as or be who I am. If you were something different,

Tiffany Sauder: And were you able to receive that, like as that's a fact, or

CJ DuBe: received it as a fact, and one of the things she said to me, which I stopped doing, she goes, mom, you are always running so much so when you call me, you call 'cause you want something, which is so true and so I've learned. More call to say, how are you? week? Have no agenda, no purpose.

Tiffany Sauder: What a gift that she told you that.

CJ DuBe: Yes, it's been a great gift. And that's probably almost eight years ago now. Yeah, long time ago.

Tiffany Sauder: Uh, I, I think I feel myself in you. okay. So back to your story. So you had these two businesses that were happening simultaneously, the HR consulting and the the massage. therapy. So then what happened? I know you sold the HR consulting firm,

CJ DuBe: I did. yeah. In 2009. partners, um, ultimately had, they had multiple businesses and they purchased it back, my shares back. a rough time because in some ways that was my baby. And so then I really found myself going, well, now what am I gonna be when I grow up? I, and because I was a member of Entrepreneurs Organization, it was right when the traction book was coming out.

Tiffany Sauder: Hmm.

CJ DuBe: And, um, Peyton was doing a fair amount of talks and everyone kept saying, cj, you need to read this book. You need to read this book. And I go, yeah, yeah. Okay. Finally, I sat down, I read the book, and I went, huh, I did some things really well, but whoa, I could've done things a lot better. And so then everyone says, well, you need to meet Mike Peyton, which we did.We met, we bonded. I did the webinar with e o s Worldwide, and I got off the EP webinar, which was with Don Tinney, and he was the integrator at the time for e o s worldwide. I got off the webinar, I walked into the living room, and I looked at my husband. I said, I know what I'm doing for the rest of my life. And he went, oh, here we go again. 13 years in, so probably going to be for the rest of my life.

Tiffany Sauder: so you were in your late forties at this time, is that right? Late forties. and how old was Logan? I think that transitioned on when like depending on where your kids are, matters about what you like. Just stage G, how it all comes together.

CJ DuBe: been 10, 11. it's 14 years ago because it was when I started looking at it and started Intuit and then three years into it is when we moved here. Arizona. So he started high school as a 13 year old, a freshman here, but he was a scratch golfer still, basically still is. played varsity golf here in Arizona all through high school as a freshman all the way through. And he absolutely loves Arizona would probably say it was hard too. 'cause I did have to travel a lot. I traveled more with him than I did with any of the kids because of the back and forth to Minnesota where my clients were and building

Tiffany Sauder: So that's what you've moved out there to do, was to open up that market for, for you or for

CJ DuBe: Yeah. That and. Real answer, man, you're getting a lot of truths outta me. everyone I'm an open book, my husband, from seasonal depression and and he literally was retired even then and said, I can't live here anymore in Minnesota.And so that was a life choice. And I said, well, I can do e o Ss anywhere. He convinced 13 year old at the time, and so it was an adventure and we moved, and I don't regret it at all. Iis here in the desert and I am happy here and I come at peace here and this afternoon I'll do a long couple hour hike in the desert and I will just be happy.

Tiffany Sauder: So my sister lives out there in Arizona too, and we did this amazing, not like a contest, but there's this thing called Seven Peaks.  the National Parks Association puts it on and you do seven mountains inside of like the greater Phoenix area in a day. it's like 26 miles of hiking. Like it's no joke. It took us 13 hours.

CJ DuBe: awesome.

Tiffany Sauder: So cj, when you read the traction book, what do you think spoke so audibly to you to have a moment that you run rushing into and say to your husband, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. Like, what, what spoke to you So audibly?

CJ DuBe: read right? One. And I, when I read it, I'm like, oh, I did that. Oh, I did that. And then I went, oh just done structure first and people second, some turnover.It would've helped me look at people differently if I would've followed core values strongly. I think we had them, but we didn't define them definitively. I. There's just so many things that e o s does that's simple, but it makes huge rewards for companies and people and, I love to speak, I love to make a difference in people's lives, which ultimately, if I'm making a difference in people's lives, I'm making a difference for myself.

I'm hitting my own heart, my own soul. The beauty of what I do with working with all the companies that I work with is I get to learn all day long too. I mean, I'm teaching sure I'm facilitating what's happening in the room, and God gave me the gift of so I give me a look and I'm all over it, right?

And so I intuitively can see through things quite well. To the point of people saying, how did you know that? I go, Hmm. It was just gifted to me. You know, messages come. And so I just knew that if it was hardest thing I've ever done in my life, Tiffany, honest to gosh, it was the hardest thing I had to do because I had offers on the table to go back to corporate America, and my family needed the money. and   of time when I per se sold the business, it was very low balled because it was the timeframe of oh nine. college outta money. up one day and I had a hundred bucks left in my checking account, and it was stubborn.I was still going do e o s. I'm like, I'm gonna do it. It's gonna Please, go back to work corporate America. I just didn't, at a lot of things in my life. I lost a lot of things in that timeframe stubborn and determined to tuition instead of mortgage, home.It was painful. single moment though, and this is me, this is just me. I knew God had my back. And I knew I was doing the right thing. forward years, I've helped to affect change a lot of companies, people's lives, and my own, my own, the lovely home I have now, year old self, would've never thought that I have what I have now, ever, pure grit. Stubbornness Because I believed, I believed so deeply I was doing the right thing and the e o s was the right thing. And it could change people's lives and change companies lives and change the world in many, many ways. 'cause the world needs entrepreneurs. lot of pain along the way, but the pain taught me a lot too.

Now I kind of just ask God to not hit me so hard. Just tap me. I promise I'll listen.

Tiffany Sauder: Why do you think you needed to go through that? Cj?

CJ DuBe: Uh, because I am that bull in a China chop sometimes and I'll just go roaring this way. to in envelopes and do things like that. when it's down the wrong path, I am very, very blessed to have a Lord that pulls me back, and slap me so hard.

Tiffany Sauder: I used to say I feel like I've grown a lot too, that I played life like a game of bumper cars. I would just go really fast until I hit, and then I'd be like, oh, ah, like over here Having a high motor, like being mighty as you say. Like you can push through a lot of things that are like, yeah, that's kind of uncomfortable. Yeah, I'm pretty thirsty. Like, yeah, it is hot in here. but conditions are irrelevant to my behavior. Like you can just kinda keep going until you realize like, no, this is actually like the car's on fire,

CJ DuBe: you, I have to physically be like, like I have been hit by a bus downtown Minneapolis, literally driving down a road. t-boned me. Went through a red light. Totally. I had to stop moving for, for six months. He said, you're done. I'm done.You're, you can't move.

Tiffany Sauder: Oh

CJ DuBe: No joke. comes, you don't want someone to get hit by a bus, you can survive

Tiffany Sauder: That's amazing. when you're in those modes where you're like, you know, I, I am also a person of faith, so either God is shouting or the world is shouting or whatever you believe the universe is shouting.How have you learned? To find your governor to care for yourself so that you have, I would say, more of a perpetual state engine instead of this revving up and revving down. What have you learned, CJ, in that process of maturing and learning yourself?

CJ DuBe: so

Tiffany Sauder: learned.

CJ DuBe: discipline in my life in certain areas, certain things I must do for myself.  so literally hit by a city downtown Minneapolis, which was massage. I owned a massage center. Crazy as the world works.I owned a massage center and I learned the modalities and the techniques and who to use and who not to use and what would heal me. And I healed very fast because I had that. today I Pilates yoga a week. I great, just that simple. I need to read the Bible every morning. It's me. It's just me. everybody, but whatever that is. For anyone. For me, that's what I do to get me grounded in the morning. I meditate every morning, usually it's meditating, Pilates. Back home, get ready, have a client.Um, I take my clarity breaks, which you know, is an e o s thing, and I'm hoping Tiffany's doing them. clarity breaks. We all need our time to just chill and think, because then the weird, quirky or people overreact in front of you, Have routines of things that I need to do for myself, and I feel it

Tiffany Sauder: So in a week, like this week, you shared earlier that you've been on four airplanes. Are you able to clinging to those like Yes. I schedule the start times in my sessions. I fly in the night before if I need to. Likedo you,

CJ DuBe: I always fly in the night before I, DC I had a good dinner, was in bed early. Um, for two days. It was their annual Had a client in Minneapolis my evenings to, I make sure I get my sleep.

I have to get my sleep. I need seven hours. I really need eight, but minimum of seven. And so I'm pretty regimented on that. And I know when I can eat and when I shouldn't eat and what I should eat and when I shouldn't. And sure some of that for me, I'm just making sure.

And Tiffany, to be honest, I'm like, okay, last night I'm like, I have to have the energy for Tiffany. cause Tiffany's got literally, and then I'm time zone different. So I was east coast Central and I flew in here and I get  that I pay attention. You know, a lot of the things that we've been coached on over the years, I actually have implemented and I do.

Tiffany Sauder: So I wanna pause on this clarity break thing. even if people don't run on e o s, we just share like what the concept is. 'cause it's a life skill that e OSS has put into a process, of all of the e o s tools, I'm pretty bad at it.I actually think I'm maybe. Intimidated by it. And if I was really honest with myself, maybe even scared, like if I really sat on it, I don't know why, but I'm just again, sort of, uh, being transparent as well. so share with listeners what it is and then I don't know, you give me like four minutes of free consulting here and like walk, walk me through why I am avoiding it.

CJ DuBe: little like me and I invited it

too. it's choosing a time and a place that you can be with yourself. So, once a week for an hour. Gino choose to take clarity break weekends. I know of a professional woman who literally will take a long weekend, once a quarter by herself, go to a hotel, do spa treatments, and spend clarity time writing.whether it be weekly, monthly, daily, a lot of people like to say, well, I do a run and I get that running or exercise gives us clarity. It's not getting our brains clear. And there's a lot to be said to pen, to paper, Even Gino today in a lot of his newer content, he says, sit with yourself for a half an hour, which I've spent about six months working on that.by yourself for a half an hour when you're the person that likes to run 90 miles an hour. However,

Tiffany Sauder: Totally.

CJ DuBe: fear is sub-conscious gonna tell you?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: has a lot of messages for us, and sometimes we choose not to listen,and if we don't stop moving, we can't hear,

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: comes out of quiet, calm and just letting whatever comes out come out. There's times I'll do it a lot on a plane, put my EarPods in and just 'cause I'm there for two hours, right? And sometimes I pull out a legal pattern. I'm, I'm writing, I'm like furiously writing all these to-dos and all these things. And, but what I'm doing is I'm dumping my brain out onto paper and then all of a sudden it starts to open up and an idea or a message or, oh, I should email so-and-so and text them this message.They need it. there's beauty in the clarity breaks because we don't, yourself,

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: know that you deserve gifts and give this gift of clarity breaks to yourself, peace and some calm, and then it's like even sometimes the saying, go slow to go fast.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: If you give yourself the time to just be, you'll actually go faster on things. it's clear.

Tiffany Sauder: I know, I, I think I get so. I've tried a couple different formats. I've, I was on this train of like, oh yeah, I've gotta kind of find my way. And so of it is like, well, it's practical for my life. You know, it might be that I do my best clarity, break away a weekend, a quarter, but it's not practical for my life right now. I tried a massage day and literally like halfway through I was like, I'm so antsy. Can I just leave? Like, I just can't, I can't do this right now. It was like a Tuesday. I was like so uncomfortable with being there in the middle of the day. Like the whole thing was just like I was a twitchy mess. I'm like, this is stupid. Not the idea of a clarity break, but that I realized that was not my way of getting to a clarity break, though it sounded great on paper.Are you familiar with the book The Artist's way.

CJ DuBe: artist way.

Tiffany Sauder: The Artist's Way? I, I haven't read it yet. I've ordered it. I had three people in the last, like two weeks. this is the most Tiffany thing ever to recommend a book I've never read before, just in case. Uh, yeah, those in the audience are keeping score here. Um, but it, I know it, it walks you through the practice of daily journaling and. I think I'm feeling this pull,  as I've transitioned out of the business day to day to, like my, my job is to be above the fray, but I'm so comfortable in the tasks of things and the discipline of pulling myself above the fray is like, I don't know, maybe I'm scared I'll fail at it.Maybe I'm afraid there won't be anything there. Maybe. I don't know. It's like really interesting. I feel this like internal tension right now around It

CJ DuBe: right? So visionaries also have this push pull of I you think to the future naturally. You think three years out, five years out, 10 years out, you just naturally think that way. But you also think you have to prove to yourself that you've accomplished something.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: accomplishing something isn't the tasks you, you owe it to yourself, your family, your company, to be the visionary, to use your vision.

And if you don't clear your brain, you're not gonna have the vision. You're not gonna see You owe it to yourself, you deserve it. And the gift you'll give so many other people because things become clear. Because now you see this vision to the future. you if I can't clearly see it. I have to see it a long ways out to be able to say yes to

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: tasks here and there just to get it off my plate, but Don't do the $25 an hour work

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: love it. Like right. If you love it. then do it, but otherwise don't do it. 'cause you do not need to do it.And I mean, it's like I tell people, I said, Gino says this all the time. He says, you know, if you love mowing your lawn to mow your lawn, other than that you can get someone for 25 bucks an hour to mow your lawn. I'd rather be doing other things. Right. Um, year out thinker because of where I'm at in my life too.I don't think I was 45, 48 I am now. I wish I would've been then.

Tiffany Sauder: I think you said the thing, this visionary conundrum of being able to see far, but needing the. The day of accomplishment, like needing to feel that. And my mind does not register yet my subconscious, thinking as a worthy task. I've shared that I'm home more often with my kids when they get home from school and when I was home when I like that three to five 30 period was always.Work time. And then it became this, you know, unpacking backpacks and I was like, whoa, I'm rattling around in a tin can, I'm not doing anything productive. Like, and I had to reframe for myself. The productive thing is being present for your kids. The productive thing is not getting email done. All like, that's, that's not the task.Tiffany, the productive thing is being present and teaching my mind to register that. As an accomplishment. That's so interesting. I hadn't been able to frame it to myself that way, but I think that's the exact same thing. I'm like, I spent the whole day just thinking, but I didn't respond to an email record, a podcast, post something on social media, I would be like, I don't know what I did today.That's so interesting. I don't register it as completion as. Task worthy of being done. And so my, my body doesn't register it as progress. Wow. It was, that was very helpful to me. Thank you for that.  I'm gonna go another place here quickly. The podcast is called Scared, confident. I'm not projecting that this is part of your story, but I'd love to know if it is. for me, getting underneath this blanket to fear, uh, was a very important part ofme being able to step into the hole of who I now totally accept. GAD has created me to be, um, But it took some work for me to say, I'm not gonna let fear control my decisions. I'm not gonna let fear control my dreams. I'm not gonna let fear control what I'm worried about, people perceiving of me.I'm like, I am gonna let my dreams control the outcomes of my choices, not fear. Has fear been present in your journey, and if so, what? What does it say to you when for me, it's when I'm tired, when I'm distracted, when I'm overwhelmed, when I'm like I don't have all my faculties together, fear can start to

like really make me a topsy-turvy. how has that played out in your life, CJ?

CJ DuBe: has been, of being three. Fear has been fear's part of our lives, right? So fear is, is there all the time we, and I know I've quoted him a couple of times here, but he does say Name the fear. when I feel fear, okay, what is it? What exactly am I afraid of? it's like my glass half empty husband, you know? He always has to think of things in the worst case scenario in case they happen, which of course I don't. But if I feel fear, I go, okay, what's the worst thing I could do on this podcast with Tiffany? Be too tired, be not rested, be not ready to go.Right. Not be brave enough to say the things I've already said that I've never said before. I did. That's I said, I'm just gonna roll. I'm gonna be me. I'm gonna say it. 'cause I had a gut feeling with your scared confidence, you're gonna ask me things and no one else would. And you did.

Tiffany Sauder: Yes.

CJ DuBe: And that's, that's good though because. When we get to the other side of it, I think you could agree that most of the time you're like, what was I afraid of?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: saw, you know, speakers and I go, I wanna do that And then I started doing that and I was scared to death.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: at the end of it, I had this exhilaration that like, you were so fabulous at the conference, Tiffany. I'm sure you had fear before you went on the stage, and then after you're like, oh, this was absolutely fabulous. Right? So sometimes we just have to bust through that fear to get to the fabulous

Tiffany Sauder: Did you grow up in ahousehold that was braveor

CJ DuBe: both. Seriously. My mother lived in fear nonstop, and my father was the, you know what? I use Kolby term, quick start, visionary type person. So he was a risk taker and she was like the complete opposite. So I had this duality always going, and I wasn't that close with my mother. I love her to death. Don't get me wrong, she's so alive.

be big, bold, brave, say what I needed to say, push through and then yeah, he would have moments of yanking me back. Um, so there was a lot of duality that I went through and I had to figure out what me was all along the way. And it's still a journey. I'm 60, I'm still gonna be figuring this out, so I'm 124. Yeah, I figured that's how long I'll live.

Tiffany Sauder: okay. I read this not so long ago that how old you think you're going to be plays a really huge role in how long you actually live. Because you begin to orient your self-care, your nutrition, all those decisions on like, I think I'm gonna, so I have pronounced 102 is how old I'm gonna be, but I love 1 24.I could join you in that. I just don't know that I can conceptually believe that maybe science willget there, but I'm like102. I could do that. Icould do that.

CJ DuBe: I definitely, you long time was um, then, um, Dan Sullivan from Strategic Coach said, add 20 years, so I did,

Tiffany Sauder: so. this is your

CJ DuBe: yeah, so. Four years and my kids laugh. They're my kids. My adult children are laughing all the time, and they go, she'll probably do it. She'll haunt us for a very long time.

Tiffany Sauder: so, so, um,when fear speaks to you, what does it sayto you,

CJ DuBe: So there's two different ways of fear for me. literally physically feel it if burn from my chest, through my stomach, it's like, you're not doing the right thing. You need to go a different way. general stress in my body, my shoulders, my head is like, okay, you're scared, you're trepid, you're, you just gotta break through it.Siege, right? So I've learned in my body to know what the fear is and what it is, and then there's fear, and then there is just the simple, what I would call my tornado. Which is when I am running so fast and I don't allow myself down even a few minutes of down, and I run and run, because if I'm in a tornado, who knows what's gonna fly outta that tornado.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: it could be a toaster, it could be anything could fly outta that tornado

with CJ's a tornado. So, um, us full circle to clarity breaks is if we don't take time for ourselves, that's what I call getting into my tornado. We lose confidence, forget things. Um,

Tiffany Sauder: Okay. Last question and then we'll, uh, and then I have a parting. Okay, two more questions. How have friendships been for you? yeah, you're running fast. You have seven kids, you have a million responsibilities, but you also need friends So how have youmade space for that and what does that look like?

CJ DuBe: I am so very, very blessed to have friends that have been with me for, oh 40 years, 30 years, 20 years. Um, good friend, and because I didn't have a lot of time for friends. Now my husband and I golfed, so we would have a lot of time where we'd go golf and golf with couples and have that kind of friends, right?

Social friends and we, and we would do friends all know me extremely well. And there's six and I could pick up the phone and I could call any of them and they would drop anything for me, and I would do the same for them. And they've been lifelong friends, so. It off the time with them to go do things.

So I have a girlfriend who usually the, you know, hunting weekend of Minnesota, she comes to Arizona and we spend the weekend together and it's just her and I and I de and that's healing for me. It's healing for her. And so I'm not that friend that's going to, you know, talk to you three times a week. Eh, I'm not that.

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: I am that. friend that will say, where can we block off time together? Where can we go have a glass of wine or dinner? It may not be for three months, but when can we do it? cause we had periods of time in our life right where we were really close. And I think I have people that I work with, even EEO S Worldwide, Kelly Knight.I consider Kelly a deep friend and someone I care deeply about. But we have also worked together over the years, right?

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm.

CJ DuBe: And so, an

Tiffany Sauder: I think that it's important when you lead a lot of things. I. You can have a lot of relationships that are in fact real.  but I have found, I have had to work really intentionally to have a space where I can like free fall into those friendships where they don't need anything from me, really.Like we want relationship from one another, but they don't really need anything from me. and it's taken me a little time. To recognize how important that is to like vitality in your heart, um, to have people like that, that care about you forreasons that aren't what they can get from you,

CJ DuBe: Yeah,

Tiffany Sauder: your title, any of those things, they just

CJ DuBe: they just love you and they, and you trust them. You trust them impeccably. So if they do tell you something you need to hear, you're gonna listen.

Tiffany Sauder: Yeah, totally.Okay. Parting question. Um, what advice would you give your 24 year old self?

I CJ DuBe: myself to slow down. choices of marriage. I mean, I don't, my kids are my kids and I love my kids to death, and I don't regret ever having any of my children. Right. But I would've. Thought differently about relationships and the choices that I made.I was always good at business work choices, mostly Took me a lot longer to figure out. And so my 24 year old self who's like, just slow down and think about what you really want, and it's okay to say

Tiffany Sauder: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Well, CJ, thanks for sharing so vulnerably today. I have really loved getting to know you. If you guys ever see CJ in person, she's this little Sprite of a human being, like big. Im personality tiny in stature and dressed impeccably, and I love it. Uh, so cj, thanks for sharing your story and your time with ustoday.It's great to get to know you.

CJ DuBe: fed mysoul and I can't wait to see you again.

Tiffany Sauder: So much.

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