Talking mom guilt and technology with Michelle Gambs

Emily Schwalbech [00:00:00]:

I think it's hard as a mom to be okay working versus non working. You know, that's something that I struggle with a lot, and I'm kind of in this limbo. I'm not full time, but I don't stay at home. Being a mom is fulfilling, and it is the most wonderful job in the universe. But to sit there and say I still need more, that's, like, super hard for me. And I have friends that are all under the sun. So many different some of them work full time, some of them are part time. There's not a lot of in betweeners like me.

Emily Schwalbech [00:00:30]:

I think that I guess just navigating those conversations with friends or not feeling like people are thinking that it's enough to do.

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:38]:

I'm a small town kid born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy, and ever since, my husband, junior and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep, that means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world. And I want that for you, too. Im Tiffany Sauder, and this is scared confident.

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:21]:

Okay, so before you launch into this episode, I want to give you a little background into what youre going to be stepping into in this episode. This is one of my collaborations with Michelle gams. If you're new to the feed and haven't heard any of episodes with her, Michelle is a parenting coach and has been working with families for over 20 years to help them with, like, big issues, like behavioral issues with kids, and also just getting to a peaceful place of really feeling confident and competent as a parent. Because let's be honest, we're all doing this for the first time. And I I just have really feel like even with my fourth as I'm going through this again, I've learned some awesome things from Michelle. And so I'm beginning to bring this a little bit more regularly into the feed. So the conversation that you're going to listen in on is between Michelle gams, who is the parenting coach, and Emily, who's a young mom to boys. And so you're going to be hearing almost like, counseling session is a step too far, but a conversation between the two of them, wherever I I really feel like Emily is, like, the voice of us, of the mom, of like, these are the questions that I have for you.

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:27]:

Michelle. And so this is like, a proxy for, I'm sure, a lot of questions that you would have for Michelle. So they talk about technology, and what does it look like for boundaries around that? And specifically, this conversation focuses on young kids. So if you have kids under the age of eight, this episode is going to be great for you. Also talks about just how to get kids to eat different things and how we should think about that as parents. Do we force it? Do we not? Do we make it fun? Do we not care? Like, what does that look like? And then just, like, mom guilt as you start adding more kids to the family. So if you're in the early parenting season or you're like, me and you are not a young mom, but you do have young kids still. This is definitely an episode where you're gonna walk away with some awesome tidbits.

Tiffany Sauder [00:03:13]:

It flies through. They touch a lot of different topics, and so I know you're gonna really enjoy the. This conversation's between parent coach Michelle gams and mom Emily. Thanks for listening in.

Emily Schwalbech [00:03:24]:

So my son is four. He just turned four in August. My other son, and that's will, and then my other son, Bo, turned one in July. So I have a four year old and a one year old.

Michelle Gambs [00:03:34]:

Perfect.

Emily Schwalbech [00:03:34]:

And we were late to the iPad phone game. We didn't really give him that much. Not that we didn't want to. Just. We were just late to the game of, oh, maybe you should be, like, learning how to do this. And it was one of those things where we didn't want it to be a ton of screen time, but the world we live in now uses that, so we want him to be introduced to it. But what are your thoughts about managing that? Because he's not an addictive. I'm, like, sitting there watching the iPad nonstop.

Emily Schwalbech [00:04:07]:

But there are some viewpoints that's, like, he shouldn't have that or he shouldn't do this. What do you think about screen time, Anne?

Michelle Gambs [00:04:14]:

That's a good question. See, I have to take a breath to answer it. And those of you out there, I mean, they're all taking a breath right now, too, because it is such a difficult topic, right? It is. And that's lucky for you, Emily, right now, if your son is not addicted.

Emily Schwalbech [00:04:33]:

Lucky you.

Michelle Gambs [00:04:33]:

He will be.

Emily Schwalbech [00:04:34]:

Yes. Oh, I know he will be.

Michelle Gambs [00:04:36]:

That's the reality. It's made for addiction. It's intended to be that.

Emily Schwalbech [00:04:41]:

Right?

Michelle Gambs [00:04:41]:

That's how it's done. So that's what you're fighting and try to place yourself between someone and their addiction.

Emily Schwalbech [00:04:48]:

Okay. Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:04:49]:

It's not a pretty place. Exactly. It's not a pretty place.

Emily Schwalbech [00:04:53]:

Good.

Michelle Gambs [00:04:53]:

Universally. Yeah, universally. And there's a whole world out there of Al anon that addresses that very thing because Al Anon helps people try to find their own space between someone and their addiction.

Emily Schwalbech [00:05:04]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:05:04]:

And the reality is you can only control yourself.

Emily Schwalbech [00:05:07]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:05:08]:

That's the truth. So let's get back to kids. Okay. So I'll tell you what my gut reaction is. Wait as long as you can.

Emily Schwalbech [00:05:16]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:05:17]:

Wait as long as you can. And I know I heard that piece about, this is the pool in which he's swimming. Okay. So I'm not denying that's the pool in which he's swimming.

Emily Schwalbech [00:05:27]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:05:27]:

He will catch up quickly. Yeah, there is, you know, same with phones. Like, I encourage parents, wait as long as you can.

Emily Schwalbech [00:05:35]:

Wait until me and my husband both want to wait till they're driving. We're trying. We're going to try because that was my rule was I didn't get one until I was driving. And yes, my parents, I was the very last one in my high school class to get a phone and I used to be very frustrated with that. And now I'm like, I see why you did that. Thank you. Yes, I see why. I understand now.

Michelle Gambs [00:05:55]:

Yes. I hope that you make it. I do. I really hope that you make it. There will be enormous pressure for you because it's unbelievable to hear, but children have phones at nine.

Emily Schwalbech [00:06:07]:

Yeah, I know.

Michelle Gambs [00:06:08]:

Ten, 1112. And for me it was whenever my child is going to be away from me, like truly away from me.

Emily Schwalbech [00:06:18]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:06:18]:

And that's not at nine or ten. Some kids maybe, I mean, if they're on travel teams that kids do now and if you're not with them, that kind of thing. But they can always use somebody else's phone if they're contacting you. But that was my barometer was if they're away from me, but they're going to be using your iPad, they're going to be using your eye touch, they're going to be texting long before they ever have a phone.

Emily Schwalbech [00:06:40]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:06:41]:

They'll find ways to swim in the pool in which they are and they're going to be way ahead of you, Emily. And they're going to be way ahead.

Emily Schwalbech [00:06:47]:

Of all of us because they're going.

Michelle Gambs [00:06:49]:

To know the latest workaround to whatever you're putting out there to limit them. They will. That's their job to get what they want. It's child's job to get what they want. That's why we talk about with parents, with partners, it really helps for you to be unified, because as a child, it's my job to get what I want, and whoever I can best do that with is who I'm going to. So I'm going to the weakest link. I'm going to the weakest link to get what I want. And so that's why it helps for parents to be connected and to talk offline and to come back in and be united front.

Michelle Gambs [00:07:25]:

Be united front. So that I, as your child, don't know who the weakest link is.

Emily Schwalbech [00:07:29]:

Right. Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:07:30]:

That is gonna help the two of you stay bonded and so that you, too, can even have a signal about it or like a word that means let's pow wow over here, close doors, and then you reenter. And whoever was speaking to the child needs to continue speaking to the child, not the other one that comes in and says, actually, we're not doing that. No, no. Whoever was speaking can read. It's a credibility thing.

Emily Schwalbech [00:07:54]:

Right. Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:07:54]:

So anyway, that's the short version of that, to try to stay unified, whatever that is.

Emily Schwalbech [00:07:59]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:07:59]:

But then also back to the media thing, because I'm going to just give a general thing that there's all kinds of research out there biologically, what's going on for your children with that. Okay. It is changing their brains.

Emily Schwalbech [00:08:10]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:08:11]:

So you have to contend with how much you're interested in changing your child's brain.

Emily Schwalbech [00:08:14]:

Exactly. Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:08:15]:

And this is my opinion that parents must be monitoring this through high school.

Emily Schwalbech [00:08:22]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:08:23]:

Up until and beginning high school, and after that, it's a crapshoot at this snapshot of life as it is now, because most children in high school have, or required to have laptops, some kind of computer.

Emily Schwalbech [00:08:36]:

Chromebooks is what they have in high school now. And that's why I wanted to bring this to you. Cause I'm like, I don't want it to be a situation where he doesn't know how to go to school, if that's what it's gonna end up being.

Michelle Gambs [00:08:46]:

Yeah, it is. But he's gonna catch up.

Emily Schwalbech [00:08:48]:

You'll catch up. Yeah. There you go.

Michelle Gambs [00:08:49]:

He will totally catch up because it's a language that they will pick up. And they, even if you did nothing, no exposure to any kind of technology in your house, say that you really went captain fantastic, which is a fabulous movie, by the way. It's amazing. It's not about any kind of superhero, although the dad kind of seems like he is one anyway. If you did a version of Captain Fantastic. And introduced your children to no social media. Okay. Or no technology.

Michelle Gambs [00:09:19]:

Those children still went to college.

Emily Schwalbech [00:09:21]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:09:21]:

And they're going to be immersed in this world in which they live. And, yes, there'll be growing pains for that, but your child will be going to other houses and grandmas and school, and there's no hiding from it.

Emily Schwalbech [00:09:35]:

Right. It doesn't matter if it's not in your own house. They'll get it somewhere.

Michelle Gambs [00:09:38]:

Exactly.

Emily Schwalbech [00:09:39]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:09:39]:

And so that's my. What I would encourage you to do is create whatever balance or follow whatever values or whatever voice is speaking to you. Because if you listen to our culture, you are listening to an empty message.

Emily Schwalbech [00:09:52]:

Yeah. And I think it's hard, too, being a former kindergarten teacher. Cause there are so many, like, good educational games on there. And I'm like, hey, this is good. And it kind of, like, clouds my viewpoint on it. Cause I'm like, look, this is great educational games.

Michelle Gambs [00:10:08]:

Yes.

Emily Schwalbech [00:10:09]:

But it's still on the iPad.

Michelle Gambs [00:10:10]:

Yes.

Emily Schwalbech [00:10:10]:

So I'm like, it's seductive, Emily. I know.

Michelle Gambs [00:10:14]:

That's what addiction does.

Emily Schwalbech [00:10:15]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:10:18]:

And, you know, if you wonder, all you have to do is look at ourselves.

Emily Schwalbech [00:10:22]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:10:22]:

Because we're adults and we can't manage it, and we expect children to.

Emily Schwalbech [00:10:27]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:10:28]:

So it requires so much muscle on your part as the parent. So much muscle. And so that's about. How much do you want to take on? Because my experience, and maybe, you know this, your son, Will, the one I'm going to go with Will.

Emily Schwalbech [00:10:41]:

Yes, let's go with Will.

Michelle Gambs [00:10:42]:

Yeah, let's go with Will. That you already might have seen that it's typical that children are very irritable being removed from technology.

Emily Schwalbech [00:10:51]:

Yes, very much so. But not as much as I've seen. So I'm like, oh, he's not that bad. Like, oh, yeah, I guess it could be worse. But it is when I'm like, all right, we need to go. Like, we need to turn that off and get going. It is a little bit more of a struggle than it would be if it was, like, in our playroom with a toy.

Michelle Gambs [00:11:14]:

Uh huh. Yeah.

Emily Schwalbech [00:11:15]:

So I see what you're saying there.

Michelle Gambs [00:11:17]:

That's just data for you. Yeah, data. No, it is, because it's like a short term piece, but, you know, you're setting yourself up for something at the end.

Emily Schwalbech [00:11:28]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:11:28]:

I mean, it's really a personal decision, like every other decision that you get to decide in your own home. And I love the qualifier. Please adopt it. In our house. In our house, we try a bite of all the foods on the plate, you can spit them out. At our house. Our curfew is eleven. At our house, we don't hit each other at our house, whatever it is, so that you can qualify that.

Michelle Gambs [00:11:53]:

Because then there's no discussion or argument about. That's not what we do over here. That's not what they do. Yeah. That's all true. And at our house. Because you get to decide at our house.

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:04]:

Right? At our house. Yeah. We say in our world.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:06]:

Perfect like that.

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:07]:

In our world. Cause there'll be naughty words that we hear. And in our world, we don't say those naughty words.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:13]:

I love it. That's really good.

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:15]:

Actually, my nephew, who's now eleven, he said, we don't say stupid in our world. And so I'm like, yeah, buddy. We don't. I mean, this is when he was like eight and seven or eight. And now I'm like, that's what I'm saying. That in our world. In our world, we don't say those things. But you might hear it out of.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:32]:

In other worlds.

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:33]:

In other worlds, at the movie theater, you might hear naughty word, but we don't say it in our world.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:38]:

Oh, that's so good. See?

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:39]:

So cute.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:40]:

Yeah, the same. Yeah. So you. You have power.

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:43]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:44]:

For creating your world, and that's what you continue to do.

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:47]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:48]:

At each age and stage. And you're getting confronted with, okay, now what? Now what? And now what do I want? Which. Those are the big decisions.

Emily Schwalbech [00:12:56]:

I love the take a bite and you can spit it out.

Michelle Gambs [00:12:59]:

Will was such a great eater.

Emily Schwalbech [00:13:01]:

And then I'm like, how do you not like Mac and cheese? I want to eat the whole bowl. Why do you not want hot dogs? Like, they're delicious, and it's just all different now. And he can. It's the very specific things that he eats. And me and my husband look at each other and we're like, we failed. This is exactly the opposite of what we wanted. We wanted our child to be eating salmon and adult food. You can just make one meal and then put it on their plate and we don't have that.

Emily Schwalbech [00:13:31]:

Yes, we don't.

Michelle Gambs [00:13:32]:

Okay.

Emily Schwalbech [00:13:33]:

All right.

Michelle Gambs [00:13:33]:

Thank you for bringing up another really important topic. Yeah. Okay. My understanding is children have a whole lot more taste buds than we do.

Emily Schwalbech [00:13:42]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:13:43]:

I don't know developmentally how that works, because I hear this a lot from, like, a one year old is gonna eat. It's like they don't even have a taste buds.

Emily Schwalbech [00:13:51]:

Anything, typically, anything that we give him, and we've been giving him more because we don't think we did it as much with Will. So we're starting to. We're trying to do it with Bill. Yes. Just throw everything on.

Michelle Gambs [00:14:02]:

It's almost like those. The one year they don't even have taste. It's blank. And then they develop a whole bunch of them.

Emily Schwalbech [00:14:09]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:14:09]:

Like, we all know that we ate a lot of Mac and cheese and white foods. Like, white foods when I was white foods. I mean, most kids aren't eating salads. But then eventually you graduate to a. And you grow up and you begin to eat all of those things. So it's our job as parents to expose at least seven times before a child is going to adopt.

Emily Schwalbech [00:14:28]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:14:28]:

Okay. So just know that it's your job to keep exposing. Keep exposing. Keep exposing. Keep putting the strawberry on the plate.

Emily Schwalbech [00:14:35]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:14:36]:

Keep putting the piece of broccoli on the plate.

Emily Schwalbech [00:14:39]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:14:39]:

The. Whatever it is. Like, just put a piece of it on there. And so it creates a color and a balance, too. And that was the rule in our world.

Emily Schwalbech [00:14:48]:

Oh, in our world, we also had that rule.

Michelle Gambs [00:14:50]:

Yes. That you had to taste everything on your plate and you can spit it out if you don't care for it.

Emily Schwalbech [00:14:56]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:14:56]:

If you don't care for it or if you don't taste everything, that's fine, too. You are not welcome to go to. There was a bowl in the pantry of sweet things, and that was that. If you tasted the healthy things, the things that helped you grow.

Emily Schwalbech [00:15:09]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:15:09]:

So those were the terms. It helps you grow, then I'm willing to put things in your mouth that don't help you grow. So the sugar and they could go pick. I mean, it was like, little things in there or raisins or whatever else your kids like, and they're accessible and they can go. So you're free to avail yourselves of those. If you taste everything, it's your decision. If you choose not to taste everything, that's fine, too. Just know you're not welcome to that.

Emily Schwalbech [00:15:33]:

Okay, so what if they make themselves vomit when trying? Because I'm like, man, I don't want to clean up vomit every night at dinner.

Michelle Gambs [00:15:44]:

So, like, why not?

Emily Schwalbech [00:15:46]:

So how do we do that one? Cause I'm like, I'm all about wanting him to do it, but he just would make himself throw up. So maybe if I say you can spit it out, he won't make himself vomit.

Michelle Gambs [00:15:59]:

So that really happens.

Emily Schwalbech [00:16:01]:

Yeah. When we try to get him to try something new, he'll say it's making him sick, and then he'll throw up whatever it is, maybe a little something, or he'll gag, and then that will come up. But, like, don't want to get graphed, so.

Michelle Gambs [00:16:15]:

No, no, no. We're all graphic here. All comes out. Okay. So if, again, it's his own motivation. Yes, it's his own motivation, because if he wants. Is he motivated for the dessert things?

Emily Schwalbech [00:16:27]:

He's very food motivated.

Michelle Gambs [00:16:28]:

Okay, then knock it out with whatever is in that bowl or basket or whatever. Knock it out with that. So he's motivated.

Emily Schwalbech [00:16:35]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:16:35]:

And if he chooses, it's all up to him.

Emily Schwalbech [00:16:37]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:16:38]:

So there's no power struggle here around food. Cause food and going to the bathroom are completely within their power, right? Yeah, they're completely within their power. And then we start power struggling and arguing about it, and then children realize the power they have, and it becomes a bigger, bigger, bigger issue.

Emily Schwalbech [00:16:52]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:16:53]:

Okay. So recognize they have the ultimate power. You can create this environment that is motivating or not, whatever.

Emily Schwalbech [00:16:58]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:16:59]:

So if he's motivated by that, you know the deal.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:01]:

Yeah, you know the deal.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:03]:

And if you are interested in trying the strawberry and you're fearful that you might vomit or you might gag, you might want to stand by the trash when you taste it. I love it.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:14]:

Here's a trash can. Go try it over here.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:17]:

Feel free to just taste it. It was the tiniest taste sometimes for my kids. Well, I tasted it, and I'm like, that's not exactly a bite. Yeah.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:26]:

The smallest nibble I've ever seen. And he's like, that counts. And I'm like, I'm not sure if I even see it, but, okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:34]:

Lick it. Does that.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:35]:

Yeah, licking it.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:37]:

Yeah.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:37]:

He's great with fruits. He is an all star with fruits.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:41]:

Perfect.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:41]:

And he loves raw carrots. Great. That's about it.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:46]:

That is our problem, Emily, if we keep putting the same foods in front of them. And I understand the draw to do that because you want them to eat.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:55]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:55]:

And so I'm not saying give them a plate of foreign foods.

Emily Schwalbech [00:17:58]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:17:58]:

That's not what I'm saying. But put one or two that are home runs.

Emily Schwalbech [00:18:01]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:18:02]:

And then one or two that aren't. That are the stretches so that you keep with the exposure of at least seven times, because eventually they will. And as you well know, if you don't trust me on this, know that we all started eating salads at some point.

Emily Schwalbech [00:18:16]:

Yeah, I know.

Michelle Gambs [00:18:17]:

Like, it wasn't just bologna and it wasn't just hot dogs.

Emily Schwalbech [00:18:20]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:18:20]:

And we eventually got there.

Emily Schwalbech [00:18:21]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:18:22]:

You know, and everybody keeps. You know, it was like, even into adulthood, I still wouldn't eat an olive or coconut. Those were the holdouts. Those were the holdouts. I'm like, anything coconut felt like I was eating suntan lotion.

Emily Schwalbech [00:18:34]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:18:35]:

You know, I'm like, I'm not doing that. Not doing it in olives. And now I'm all grown up. I'm all grown up. And now I'll do those now you can see. We're so proud of you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And every year, my sister wanted me to bring the seven layer salad, and so I would have to make half of it without celery on it because she would not eat the celery.

Michelle Gambs [00:18:57]:

And then finally one year, like, three years ago, she goes, I'm all grown up. I do the celery now.

Emily Schwalbech [00:19:01]:

Do the celery now.

Michelle Gambs [00:19:02]:

Wow. So it's.

Emily Schwalbech [00:19:03]:

We all get there.

Michelle Gambs [00:19:04]:

See? We all get there. And it's even faster if you. Yes. It's introduced exposure, so keep introducing. Yeah.

Emily Schwalbech [00:19:12]:

Okay. Don't give I love. And I'm just gonna be like, go stand by the trash can then.

Michelle Gambs [00:19:16]:

Totally.

Emily Schwalbech [00:19:17]:

Because we have a vomit bowl.

Michelle Gambs [00:19:19]:

Oh, my God.

Emily Schwalbech [00:19:20]:

Not necessarily for only meals, but we also have it when he gets a really bad cough. That's how he gets. I mean, you can't say, like, you know, get it out. Hawk it up. They don't know how to control their throats to do that. So he just vomits. Like, whenever he gets sick. He's like, mom, I think I need the vomit bowl.

Emily Schwalbech [00:19:36]:

I'm like, ah, okay, so we have a bowl, but now I can be like, hey, go to the trash can. I don't even need to clean the bowl. Genius might be the number one thing that I learned. The trash can. Go stand by the trash can. Then I don't have to be involved.

Michelle Gambs [00:19:51]:

Yeah.

Emily Schwalbech [00:19:51]:

I love it.

Michelle Gambs [00:19:52]:

Yeah. Okay, well, you know another one about the trash can. Since we're on this topic of food and this is kind of shocking to people. Okay, so those of you that might feel like this is harsh, but around foods, because parents get frustrated that children are dawdling and not really eating right. Okay. And so one of the inner 101 intervention, again, we can decide how you want to adopt them or not. But one idea is that you set a timer. If this is a challenge in your house, which I'm not sure it is right now in yours, because it's all.

Emily Schwalbech [00:20:25]:

Food he likes, he has zero problem eating and timeliness of it. Okay. My husband gets a little antsy, but I think that's just because he was not a kindergarten teacher. What I do is when I get advice, this is all such wonderful advice. I think. What would his rebuttal be for this amazing advice that I just got that I would come up and be so excited about? What would he say? Well, wasted food again, can't win. So now I got my argument again.

Michelle Gambs [00:20:51]:

We got the devil's advocate. We're trying to work with that. Okay. And the guy wouldn't last in kindergarten for long because you know how much waste is in that scene.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:02]:

Oh, it's bad.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:03]:

It's part of creativity, too. It's part.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:06]:

Oh, yeah. Dumping all the glue on that paper. He wouldn't handle that.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:10]:

That's. They don't understand that.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:13]:

No, they don't.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:13]:

Immersed in. Doesn't this glue feel good? And let's see what it tastes like.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:17]:

Oh, yeah. Oh, also that. Yes, yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:21]:

All the senses.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:22]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:23]:

No, I appreciate Ryan not even being here with us because it helps all of us.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:27]:

Yes, it does.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:28]:

Ryan's helping all of us get more streamlined or efficient or he's helping with the resistance factor because I appreciate resistance. We all are resistant. And so that's. I mean, I experience that so much. People get dragged in to see me. The partner gets dragged.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:44]:

Oh, yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:45]:

You know, and it's like I can tell who's the resistant party, and they'll naturally soften. And I know I have to deal with their resistance.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:52]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:52]:

Because of course there is. Well, this is the way it was done with me.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:55]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:21:55]:

This is what I've always done. And we're resistant human beings to change.

Emily Schwalbech [00:21:59]:

Absolutely.

Michelle Gambs [00:22:00]:

I am. You are. We all are. So I appreciate Ryan being brought in, even though he's not here.

Emily Schwalbech [00:22:04]:

Yeah. Hey, Ryan, we appreciate you.

Michelle Gambs [00:22:06]:

Shoot you, Ryan. We do.

Emily Schwalbech [00:22:09]:

And then I guess another thing that I was thinking about on the drive here, thinking of all of my thousands of parenting questions, I'm like, okay, I have to narrow it down.

Michelle Gambs [00:22:17]:

Okay, you can come back.

Emily Schwalbech [00:22:20]:

So we had will, and I had all this one on one time with Will, and he actually was verbally ahead of schedule, which, as a teacher, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is great. This is amazing. The back, just slight, humble brag. But, yes, I was so excited about it. Well, now we have Bo, and he is on more of the average rate for vocab. Might be a little bit behind in the guilt. I don't spend that one on one time with him because there's actually another human around that I talk to constantly who speaks to me. Am I not being the mom that I was to will, to Beau, is it not the same? Is that why he's behind? Or is it just.

Emily Schwalbech [00:23:02]:

All kids are different. They develop at the same time. But it's so hard to be like. But I did talk to will as a baby all the time. And when I would have beau one on one, when he was newborn very young, I was like, oh, my gosh, I get to do the laundry and get this done and that done. Because when you're the mother of the second child, you realize when they're newborns, that's when you do stuff, because they stay still. But, you know, when you're first time mom, you're trying to just figure out life. But with that second one, it's almost like when you are alone with that baby, it's like free time.

Emily Schwalbech [00:23:36]:

You feel like you're not really with a child. Cause they're not moving right there.

Michelle Gambs [00:23:39]:

Can.

Emily Schwalbech [00:23:39]:

So I don't know if the guilt is so hard with the number two.

Michelle Gambs [00:23:44]:

Yes. Thank you for bringing that up.

Emily Schwalbech [00:23:46]:

Well, you know.

Michelle Gambs [00:23:48]:

All right, so, Emily, let's start with the guilt part before we talk about the vocab, okay?

Emily Schwalbech [00:23:53]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:23:53]:

Okay.

Emily Schwalbech [00:23:53]:

Okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:23:53]:

Because the minute that you have a child, you are gifted with mommy guilt.

Emily Schwalbech [00:23:59]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:24:00]:

Gosh, it's the worst. It is the worst. It's. Is this enough? Am I spending enough time? Am I doing enough? Are we giving them enough? What is enough?

Emily Schwalbech [00:24:11]:

Exactly.

Michelle Gambs [00:24:11]:

And that is the ongoing question, again, that you will continue to ask yourself, even now with a 20 and 22 year old. Right. Okay. Always, what's enough?

Emily Schwalbech [00:24:22]:

What's enough?

Michelle Gambs [00:24:23]:

What's enough? Because it changes, certainly. Then there's that fact. It's like the guilt. It's a universal thing. Yeah, it is.

Emily Schwalbech [00:24:31]:

It is.

Michelle Gambs [00:24:31]:

It's a universal quote gift, universal something. But it's an opportunity for us to work through.

Emily Schwalbech [00:24:38]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:24:39]:

Because I'm going out on a limb here to say Ryan might not feel this.

Emily Schwalbech [00:24:43]:

You know, he has that I found, more guilt than the average dad would, but it's not as strong as mine. But he does have it. Speaking to other fellow mom friends that I do have, which their husbands have the zero amount, but he does have guilt.

Michelle Gambs [00:25:02]:

Okay.

Emily Schwalbech [00:25:02]:

But it is not anywhere the dosage that you do. I have a higher dosage. Yeah, that's.

Michelle Gambs [00:25:07]:

I think women do.

Emily Schwalbech [00:25:08]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:25:09]:

Let's just put that out right there.

Emily Schwalbech [00:25:10]:

I do.

Michelle Gambs [00:25:11]:

And so it's a different kind of struggle.

Emily Schwalbech [00:25:14]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:25:15]:

With how to manage that. And you just even talked about it, just about your shift from being a kindergarten teacher to wanting to be around and available for your kids. And what is the right balance? And still maintaining this other professional life for yourself, that has a good balance for you.

Emily Schwalbech [00:25:33]:

Exactly. And with Will, I did not have any other side job. Nothing. And so it's also guilt to do with now that I have this business, is that the reason why Beau's not speaking as much or walking? He's just a big little guy. Not little, but he's a big guy. And he hasn't even. He's not walking yet either, which is fine. He's 15 months.

Emily Schwalbech [00:25:54]:

I get some people, some babies don't walk for months and months. But it's in the back of my mind, like, maybe if I didn't start this business, maybe he would have done XYZ.

Michelle Gambs [00:26:03]:

Okay, well, I'm gonna try to absolve you of the guilt, okay? I am. I'm gonna. I like to wave the magic wand. You have any guilt?

Emily Schwalbech [00:26:12]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:26:13]:

And all moms that you experience when you are doing what you need to do for yourself.

Emily Schwalbech [00:26:19]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:26:20]:

Okay. Because when you do the things you need to do for yourself, and that is different for you than it is for your friends or your sister or whomever or what your mom did. Okay, whatever that is, that fills you up. That is your right balance. That is your right cocktail recipe for your life. Do that. Because you show up as a different mom to those boys. If you have filled that for yourself.

Emily Schwalbech [00:26:44]:

Yeah, absolutely.

Michelle Gambs [00:26:45]:

And you have to pay attention to that little voice, whatever that cocktail is for you, and just let it simmer. Put the guilt aside because you are a better mom. If you have that business, if that relieves economics for you, if that relieves some sort of stimulation for you, if that feeds those. Because you sat down here today and you used a beautiful word. You sat down, you said, I feel very fulfilled.

Emily Schwalbech [00:27:11]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:27:12]:

That's saying a lot. That's saying that you're in the right cocktail for you, Emily. So the guilt, you got to quiet it down and keep following whatever that is for you, and you'll know if it gets too far out. Yeah, it's a balancing act. It's always a balancing act toward this sense of homeostasis, your own version of that. And you'll know if it gets too far out of. It's not the same as somebody else's. Somebody else's looks different for them.

Emily Schwalbech [00:27:40]:

Right. Exactly.

Michelle Gambs [00:27:41]:

And that's the pay attention for yourself. So that mommy guilt piece is huge. And thank you for talking about it.

Emily Schwalbech [00:27:48]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:27:48]:

Because it's universally felt, and you just have to keep coming back to what is it that I need and want? And you are a better mom when you do that, because.

Emily Schwalbech [00:27:58]:

So true.

Michelle Gambs [00:27:59]:

You show up differently. You show up more patient, more present, and it is about quality, not quantity. Yeah. Because there are parents who stay at home with their children all day and spend less quality than parents who have some form of professional life, whatever that is, or volunteer life. Spend less quantity, but it's higher quality.

Emily Schwalbech [00:28:23]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:28:23]:

And that is what it's about, is quality over quantity, because it's making deposits into your children. And if you think of it like a bank account, that there are deposits and withdrawals, and there needs to be deposits into that relationship. And if there are deposits in, then there's something to take out of it.

Emily Schwalbech [00:28:39]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:28:40]:

They will be more cooperative with you. They will be more respectful of you if there are deposits in it. But if there's no deposits, then it's overdrawn, it's running on empty. And so if you can be intentional about how you show up and that I'm making deposits. And by the way, this applies to Ryan. Yes, it does apply. Like, what am I putting into this relationship, and what am I expecting out of it? And so you do that. It will be good, really good.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:04]:

And it's not about quantity.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:06]:

No.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:06]:

So keep that going. Whatever that cocktail is that keeping you fulfilled. Emily, keep with that cocktail. Okay.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:13]:

Fill in my cup.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:14]:

Yes. And then let's talk about little bow.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:16]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:17]:

Little Bo. Because let me also point out to you, it's easy on the outside that Bonnie has more voices than will had.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:24]:

Oh, okay.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:26]:

Beau has three voices, and will had two.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:30]:

Yeah**.**

Michelle Gambs [00:29:31]:

So if it was just about exposure, I don't think that's probably what's going on for Beau. I think Beau probably has his own path.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:39]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:40]:

And he sounds more like a typical second or youngest.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:45]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:45]:

And will sounds like more of a firstborn.

Emily Schwalbech [00:29:49]:

Yes.

Michelle Gambs [00:29:49]:

There are patterns to those firstborns. Typically. Not always, but typically are higher achieving, more perfectionistic. It will become more challenging how these present themselves, because firstborns tend to become quitters because they're less experimental. They don't want to try as much, even with the foods.

Emily Schwalbech [00:30:09]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:30:10]:

Not gonna try as much. Not gonna try soccer. Not gonna try to draw. Not gonna try the instrument. I don't want to try because I have to do it well. Cause I'm an oldest, and I have to do it well, and I have to be responsible. So it's helping oldest fail and make mistakes and know it's okay that they're still loved no matter what right. And giving.

Michelle Gambs [00:30:30]:

Then the youngest. Youngest, typically, are more laid back, easy going, slower pace. It's all good over here with Bo. Yeah, I don't really care if I walk. I've got you all to help Jeremy. And this is very entertaining, watching my brother run circles, and I can just, you know, make a noise for something and someone will get it. So I don't really care if I walk, you know, I wish he could.

Emily Schwalbech [00:30:55]:

Be in my family room this morning. That's exactly what happened. Like, he's just sitting there and Will's all around being a gorilla.

Tiffany Sauder [00:31:02]:

And what do you need, Beau.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:03]:

And, like, going back and forth. And that's Beau, right? Eh.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:07]:

Yes. And that's beautiful.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:09]:

Yeah, no, it is.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:10]:

It's so beautiful.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:11]:

Yeah, it is.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:12]:

And I understand the teacher in you is.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:14]:

Yes, but, but, but I.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:17]:

And that's about society. That's not about Beau. Cause Bo's all good, and Beau is gonna be all good.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:23]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:23]:

In fact, he's gonna be better than good. Yeah, he's gonna be great. And he's going to be probably a very well liked child who is easy to be around.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:34]:

Right.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:35]:

And you're gonna look back at him as a baby and say, it was evident then.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:40]:

Yeah, right.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:42]:

I can do that right now with my 20 year old.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:44]:

Yeah.

Michelle Gambs [00:31:44]:

I can look back and go, yep. He was like this as a baby, and I can look back at her at 22 and look back at her as a baby and say, yep. She was like, yeah, no, for real.

Emily Schwalbech [00:31:54]:

And I think, as well, I think it's hard as a mom to be okay, working versus non working, you know, that's something that I struggle with a lot.

Michelle Gambs [00:32:04]:

Yes.

Emily Schwalbech [00:32:04]:

And I'm kind of in this limbo. I'm not full time, but I don't stay at home and dealing with. Not me. Being a mom is fulfilling, and it is the most wonderful job in the universe. But to sit there and say, I still need more, that's, like, super hard for me. And I have friends that are all under the sun. So many different. Some of them work full time, some of them are part time.

Emily Schwalbech [00:32:26]:

There's not a lot of in betweeners like me. I think that, I guess just navigating those conversations with friends or not feeling like people are thinking that it's enough to do, you know what I mean? Like, online businesses are very, very tricky, and not a lot of people believe in them. But I think that's the best way that I've tried to figure out this in between job where I can be at home with my boys. But also give something back and fill this void that I have inside.

Michelle Gambs [00:32:53]:

Okay. And you're feeling a need that society has. We all need social media direction. I'm impaired. Then I need to hire you because I don't even know how to tag in a Facebook post. So we're gonna talk.

Emily Schwalbech [00:33:06]:

Yes, we are gonna talk. It's gonna be great. Yeah. I help everyone from any level. That's what I love about my business is, you know, I can help someone who doesn't even know how to do Instagram or post or tag. And I also help people who know how to do it and run it, but they don't know how to grow a following. And especially right now in this world, speak authentically on social media and Facebook and Instagram. There's a lot of fakeness out there and a lot of salesy, gross, icky sales that are going on.

Emily Schwalbech [00:33:36]:

And I just love to teach my clients how to be authentic and share their gifts with the world, because that is the best way to share it because everyone's on it right now.

Michelle Gambs [00:33:45]:

Okay.

Emily Schwalbech [00:33:45]:

Our kids will be soon, and as I've learned, they will be all on it soon. But I think that if we can start filling the online space with great, authentic businesses, then we set a great example for our kids.

Michelle Gambs [00:33:59]:

Okay. I really have a lot of faith in you. Seriously. You'll find your way, Emily, with your kids and this whole piece about media consumption and your own balance and work. You're finding it. You're doing it.

Emily Schwalbech [00:34:14]:

Oh, thank you so much. This was amazing.

Michelle Gambs [00:34:17]:

Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for joining us.

Emily Schwalbech [00:34:20]:

Of course. Thank you.

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:22]:

You guys know how I thrive on your feedback. If you loved this episode, please let me know. Jump over to Instagram, drop into my DM's, and let me know. Hey, we need more Michelle gams. We're looking for your feedback. Do you want more content like this? Do you want more content where Michelle is talking to parents at different stages and the different questions that we all have and sometimes don't have the courage to ask? So if you want more like this, please let me know through Instagram. And we will keep queuing conversations up like this. Or if you have other questions you want to ask Michelle, give me those as well, and we'll make it happen.

Tiffany Sauder [00:34:57]:

Thanks for listening. Thank you for joining me on another episode of scared confident. Until next time, keep telling fear. You will not decide what happens in my life. I will.