Transitioning back to work after maternity leave with Dr. Whitney Casares

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:00:00]:

For working moms, for people who have been professionals, I actually encourage you. Do something with your mind in your off time, when your baby is sleeping or someone is watching your baby and wants to get some more sleep. That stimulates you professionally. It doesn't have to mean you do work, but it can mean you listen to podcasts about something that you've been interested in. That means maybe you do a little side project, you work on something you've been interested in doing that doesn't have a deadline, but it's something you've been into. Maybe you pursue a passion project that you haven't had time for.

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:30]:

I'm a small town kid born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy and ever since, my husband, junior and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep, that means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world. And I want that for you too. Im Tiffany Sauder and this is Scared Confident Doctor Whitney Caceres is joining me today and she lives a big life of and she and her family live in Portland, Oregon, where she is a practicing, board certified pediatrician, an author, a speaker, a wife, a podcast host, and a full time working mom to two girls.

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:30]:

She's also the CEO and founder of Modern Mommy Doc, where she focuses on the relationship between a mom's wellness and her children's wellness. And she's been asked to speak to audiences at companies like Adidas and Nike. And her work has been featured in places like Forbes and is a regular contributor to psychology today. Whitney, thank you for joining me today on Scared Confident.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:01:51]:

Absolutely. It's my pleasure.

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:53]:

So my first question is this. If I were to read this bio to your 22 year old self, what part of it would she be the most surprised about?

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:02:05]:

Oh, I thought you were going to say proud of surprised, or you can say proud of.

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:08]:

But what would she be most proud of?

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:02:10]:

Yeah, I think she'd be most proud that she actually stuck true to her goals. I remember at 18 years old, I remember I wanted to go to medical school, but I wanted to do something out of the box. I remember being at Barnes and Noble, like sitting on the floor with books, looking at career paths for people who are interested in medicine but who love writing and like what to do with it. And I decided to not major in biology, but instead to major in journalism, because I had this idea, even at the age of 18 years old, of really translating medical advice and information about health in a way that reached people where they were at the time. Of course, I had no idea it would be about things, about moms, because I didn't know that I would have the child that I had eventually. I have a high functioning autistic kiddo, and so I didn't know that being a mom would be such a slap in the face when I became one. At that time, I thought it would be talking about heart health and being on the news and kind of regular health things, but in the end, it took a circuitous route to get there. But that's what I'm doing.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:03:24]:

I'm translating health information, ivory tower advice, into what actually works for mom. So that's what I'm the most proud of. What I'm most surprised about is how it came to pass, because I thought that it would be like, okay, you get your medical degree, and then you sign up to be the Sanjay Gupta of the world, and then you're on CNN and you're talking about, like, pandemics and things like that. And that stuff actually became significantly less interesting to me the more I had conversations with parents in my clinic. Like you said, I've been in private practice for twelve years. I now do telehealth because I think that's what fits best with working moms. But for a long time, I was in the clinic and moms would ask me about health issues, of course, feeding, sleep, all that type of stuff. Their kids cool.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:04:11]:

But really what they were the most intense about and looked me in the eyes and asked me about is, how do I be a good mom? How are you doing this? How are you taking care of your own kids and also taking care of your desires as a human being to contribute to the world. And so I'm most surprised that that's the thing that I gravitated toward and that's the thing that people cared the most about when I was giving them advice.

Tiffany Sauder [00:04:36]:

So when you were beginning to trans, like, when you were, like, had a kid, and suddenly we have this hat that you sort of chose but sort of just happened of like, being a working mom, what you teach now, was it, I don't want to say obvious to you, but was it natural for you to see this change that was going to occur and, like, level up your toolbox to say, this is now how I need to navigate this new world? I think some people have the foresight for that. Or was it like, from your own place of depletion? And we'll use the word fear or uncertainty, insecurity. I think that comes when you're like, this feels like a high consequence job that I have had very little thing for. So what's a girl to do? Kind of thing. So walk us through sort of that bridge.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:05:21]:

It was not, I'm so smart, and I'm so great, and, oh, this is so easy for me. It was like I had so much education. You know, I went to Stanford, I went to Berkeley. I wasn't, like, higher up in the. I thought, honestly, that other moms just, like, weren't pulling themselves up by their bootstraps enough. They weren't trying hard enough, and if they just put in more effort, they would be better moms. In all honesty, that's what I thought before I had kids. That's a terrible thing to think, but that's how I went.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:05:56]:

That's very judgy. And then I had my own kid, and I realized how difficult it was and how hard I was working and how, paradoxically, the harder I worked, the more depleted I became and the worse I was at being an excellent mother. And by excellent, I mean attuned to my child, able to anticipate her needs, able to soothe her in a way that felt like it actually worked for her, enjoying my days with her, not wishing that I could escape my life constantly as a mom. So, no, it was 100% trial by fire. And really, my blog started by saying things like, okay, if I had a million minutes in the world, this is how I would answer the question of, how do you get your kids to sleep? And then over time, it was like, as I learned all these principles about, oh, I thought this was the thing that would make me excellent as a working mom. It's actually this. It's like I almost, like, therapies myself through my writing and realized all of these things about how to be excellent, how to be effective as a parent. And again, the major thing was, how do I create a life where I do not want to escape? Because I think the lie that moms are told over and over again is be successful, reach the corner suite, get the highest titles, and that will make you feel like you're doing amazing.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:07:28]:

And I am a huge proponent of women reaching all those levels. And I think women need to be like experts have said, women need to be in the rooms where all the decisions are being made. But if all of my value, my internal value, is placed on me, being the most productive, me leaning in the furthest, me pleasing everybody in my work. So that way I rise to the highest ranks. The reality is I was just getting used by everybody, used by my work, used in my marriage. Like I was the person who was doing all the extra credit and getting graded on a curve.

Tiffany Sauder [00:07:59]:

Well, I learned this too. I was like, in the absence of my priorities being defined, other people's wishes for my times become my priorities. Like, you become reactive. It's actually not their fault. It's actually my fault. I didn't have the wherewithal, take the time, have the discipline to be explicit with myself about what I wanted as an achiever, as a pleaser, as somebody who can, like, accidentally chase the applause. Versus for me, that I was like, oh, I'm living in a life that is not one that I want or have designed, but it was, in fact, my choices that got me there. I had to own that.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:08:41]:

Oh, yeah, it's nobody else's fault. I mean, of course there are things like gender inequities and systemic issues that create bias for women in the workplace and all of that. But yet, in the end, it was like I was teaching everybody how to treat me. I was the one who was doing that again, because I didn't have well defined priorities and because my boundaries were so loose. And I actually don't mean my boundaries on time or on money, on my physical boundaries, those things are important, too. But the most important boundary is that self boundary, that ability to say, I care even more than taking the temperature of others around me. I care about taking my internal temperature, because I know that when I am like steady eddy in a great place, I'm so creative, I'm so. I contribute so deeply to other people.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:09:30]:

But when I lose that, I lose myself, and then I lose my whole sense of purpose and intentionality.

Tiffany Sauder [00:09:36]:

So this idea of a life, you don't want to escape being in sort of this creative flow and being very present, those are places that are amazing, and I'm all on board with that. But if we can both remember those first, especially my first kid, the first six to twelve months feels nothing like that. At least it didn't to me. And so I part wanted to bring you on, because there's this stretch of ground we all have to traverse. When you've decided to have children and you've decided to go back to your career, you have this sort of, like, place of excellence you've left in a life that you sort of knew and had some competency in. And you know, a sense of, like, this is familiar territory. And now I am, like, venturing into a totally new place. And it does not always feel like a life you don't want to escape, filled with creative flow.

Tiffany Sauder [00:10:27]:

So I would love for you to unpack some tools, mindsets, frameworks, whatever they are with us, if there is a young woman or a family, a couple that's listening to this and they're up on the edge of that, or they see it in the windshield of life, what are some things that they can do? And how do you normalize some things that are just hard because they are.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:10:48]:

Okay, so here's the first thing I think when you have realistic expectations about what it's like to have a newborn or a very young baby, it makes it significantly easier to face it. So it's not all rainbows and sunshine when you have a new baby, because babies don't sleep very well and they're cranky and it's hard to understand them. And I think, actually, it's significantly more difficult for a generation of parents who has already lived a stretch of life, who's already gotten pretty comfortable with their lives, who goes out to brunch. Like, my parents never did any of those things. My parents were young when they had their kids, they were struggling. They ate out of canned meals every single day, like, so Adam and kids didn't seem like that big of a shift because they were already kind of struggling and scrapping by now. They go on cruises and love to, like, live the good life, but that wasn't something they expected. So I think we have to tune into that and be aware of that for ourselves as a mindset shift and that, yes, with a newborn, sometimes you have to, like, tighten up your ponytail and, like, put your head down and just get to work.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:11:55]:

It's not going to be glamorous. There are a couple things, though, that can make it significantly easier. So, number one is a separate out baby sleep from your sleep needs. I really think that as a society and as a pediatrician, a healthcare provider, I know this, that as a society, we're not paying enough attention to this. Our sleep as new parents is the most important resource that we can make sure that we hold on to for ourselves. But if you tie your sleep and how much you're getting to how much your baby is getting, you are going to be really disappointed. I see parents that come into the clinic all the time that are like, how do I get my baby to sleep through the night? That's not the goal. Your baby physiologically a lot of times cannot sleep through the night until they're much older.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:12:45]:

So let's deal with your baby separately and then you get the sleep you need. What does that mean? It could mean that if you are thinking about where you're going to spend your financial resources that you invest in things like a doula. I know sometimes that sounds really like, oh, that's only for rich and fancy people. Well, how much money did you spend on your crib? How much money are you spending on cute little outfits? Maybe we spend less on that stuff and we spend our resources on someone who can help us. Let's say you can't afford a doula. Okay. Could you get a friend or a grandparent to come and say, I'm going to go somewhere else for 3 hours and sleep, or I'm going to go in my basement and put on noise canceling headphones for 2 hours of sleep? So that's what I mean. It's about separating your sleep.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:13:30]:

That's also a great place if you are parenting with a partner to say, I need to get sleep. This is an area where you can really help me and to have a schedule so that you're saying, okay, for one night I'm going to be up with a baby. The next night you're up with a baby. If that requires pumping milk so you can make that happen, it's worth it. If that requires. I know this is going to sound like blasphemy coming from an american academy pediatric spokesperson. If that requires doing formulas, sometimes that's the thing that should happen. Because in my mind, you can separate sleep, your sleep, and your baby's sleep.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:14:01]:

You cannot separate wellness. So if you are doing terribly, you're sleep deprived. We know people use this as a torture chamber. You know, for in wars, if you have lack of sleep, you are going to be disoriented, you're going to have more anxiety, you're going to have more depression, you are going to have more irritability with your baby. You know, you will think clearly about how to get sleep for your baby. So it really is a chicken and a thing. Sleep matters the most. So number one, realistic expectations.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:14:28]:

Number two, sleep as a resource. And then number three, in terms of this thing about losing yourself when you come into motherhood, a lot of times people will say, oh, when you're a new mom, you should really, like, let go, work completely, don't do anything, just relax. I found that incredibly boring and demoralizing. And that identity shift hit me a lot harder with my first child. Because I did that because I was like, sweet. Now I just go to mommy and me classes now on the weekends. I don't do anything that's exciting in my free time. I'm going to go get a massage.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:15:05]:

That stuff doesn't fill me up. So instead, for working moms, for people who have been professionals, I encourage you do something with your mind and your off time. When your baby is sleeping or someone is watching your baby or wants to get some more sleep, that stimulates you professionally. It doesn't have to mean you do work, but it can mean you listen to podcasts about something that you've been interested in. It means you read some good books. It means maybe you do a little side project. You work on something you've been interested in doing that doesn't have a deadline, but it's something you've been into. Maybe you pursue a passion project that you haven't had time for.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:15:40]:

Okay, I'm going to garden a little bit. I'm learning how to do macrame right now. You know, like easy thing like that that you are into. Could you read a novel that you are into? So I think realizing that you are someone who is an adult with an identity and that if you're professional, that you still have those professional inclinations, not separating that completely when you become a new mom, I think is amazing. And then I have plenty of information and tips also about once you go back to work, how to make that transition. But in those first few months, those are the main things that I really encourage parents to do.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:15]:

Hey, it's Tiffany. If you've been listening to the show for a while and find yourself thinking, I just wish there was more good news. You can sign up for my newsletter. It's filled with my favorite products, recipes, tips, stories to help encourage you as you build your life of. And the link is waiting for you in show notes. See you there. We'll maybe dip our toe in the other bucket, too. I remember my sister is a nurse and she's younger than me.

Tiffany Sauder [00:16:39]:

And I remember when she came to help me with my first baby. I had, like cousins I held quite temporarily, but I wasn't even, like, the graded babysitting, I don't know, like, not really my thing. And she told me they're actually really hard to kill, Tiffany. And she said that to me in the sense of, like, they're sturdy and this is like in the first few weeks? Yes. I don't have to run to every need. Like, if they're crying, I don't have to jump wet out of the shower if something about all of this is actually very helpful. This feels really obvious when you say it to me, but I just needed to be like, I can finish my shower, they can cry for six minutes or whatever the thing is, like, it can be okay. And that as you talk about, like, holding space for yourself, like, still as a person, condition your hair, whatever needs to happen.

Tiffany Sauder [00:17:26]:

I just sort of was like, I feel like it helped me relax a little bit. Like, I can finish what I'm doing and then I'll get to them. And that doesn't make them not important, but I am still a person and I need to put pants on. Whatever needs to happen.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:17:38]:

Yeah, 100%. And that's why I talk about sleep. Because when you have a sleep deprivation, your body goes into fight or flight physiologically. So your body thinks that you're being chased by a tiger. It thinks that you're constantly, like, at risk and that someone's going to hurt you. So when you have more sleep, you're able to make those decisions like you just talked about more effectively because you're going to respond. Respond more than react. What you're talking about is when you hear that baby scream and you're sleep deprived or you're really anxious or you're feeling depressed, you do feel like it is an emergency and I have to go help my baby right now.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:18:13]:

But the more that you have the wherewithal to respond, that's not only going to help you in that moment as you parent over time even, I'm sure for you, this is true for me with my seven and ten year old. I have to do that constantly after remind myself she wants me to come help her with her putting her pants on or her shoes or finding something for her that she's lost. She could. Wait a minute. I'm not going to be mean. I'm not going to, like, draw it out, but it's okay for me to finish my bite of bagel and then go help my child, you know? So that carries through, I think, for the entirety of motherhood.

Tiffany Sauder [00:18:44]:

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Okay, let's spend a couple tips on once you go back to work because that can feel, like, a lot. What's your advice when you're back to work? You're like, feeling those new morning motions, you're feeling those new emotions.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:18:59]:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:01]:

All of that.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:19:02]:

Number one is if it's possible for you to go back in a part time capacity, even for like a week, to ramp up. I highly advise it so I would actually rather have someone go back early. But have it be that you're going in for just a few hours to get yourself kind of reacclimated to the work life. I think that makes a huge amount of difference. So that way you don't feel like it's an entire day and now you're gone for your primary child. If you're planning on having your child in childcare or someone coming to your home, same thing. Have it be that you go, even when you're on your maternity leave for an hour or two to go do whatever it is you want to do so that you're used to being away from your child. So it's not like you're just literally cutting the cord immediately on pumping.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:19:47]:

If you are planning on breastfeeding, of course you want to try to be pumping before you go back so that you're used to that. But you also need to understand your rights and read up on the laws about breastfeeding and have a plan with your employer before you go back. You don't want to figure that out on day one, so you want to have already figured out, where am I going to be pumping? How long do I have to pump? Even as a pediatrician, I had my boss ask me, like, you really need 30 minutes three times a day. And I'm like, what? You're a pediatrician? Yes. This is how much time I need because I have to clean the parts, because I have to make sure that I'm relaxed enough to be able to do this and then bring some awareness to yourself as you're returning to those feelings that you have. I felt guilty at first for liking being back at work. I really liked being away from my daughter, who was colleaguey all the time. I felt more like myself when I went back to work, and that made me feel incredibly guilty at first.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:20:45]:

But once I started to realize, like, ooh, I feel guilty. Okay, let me give myself some compassion for that. Like, why do I feel guilty? I feel guilty because it feels like I should like to be with my kids more than I like to be at my place of professional endeavors. The reality is I don't. Right now, my child is a hot mess and it feels great to be away from her. And it makes sense. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of other women who would feel this exact same way. I'm not alone.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:21:13]:

And even just giving myself, like, 20 seconds of that throughout the day made it so then I could enjoy being in my workplace and then actually enjoy my child a lot more. When I came home to her, because I wasn't feeling the whole day like, oh, I should feel, I feel terrible, but I want to be with her. I wanted to be with her more once I gave myself permission to like being at work.

Tiffany Sauder [00:21:34]:

That's such real advice, Whitney. I feel all of those things because I was the president CEO with each of my kids taking off like eight to twelve weeks entirely was just not where the business was at. And so I did exactly what you said. It was like at four weeks there was a meeting that I went back to, our leadership meeting. At six weeks there was another thing that I added and at eight and then at twelve, and I never thought about coaching people into that ramp. I did it out of necessity, which it was like this rubber band that got its elasticity back. And you started to trust, oh, I could be away for 2 hours and I can walk in the room and read exactly where more my baby is at. I can tell they haven't eaten yet.

Tiffany Sauder [00:22:17]:

And you start to realize like, I really, I can trust this bond and relationship and my intuition with them even when I'm away. That was a big head trash thing for me because I was raised by a stay at home mom. And so I was like, it's the only way to know your kid is to see him all the time. It's like it does. Not true. Yeah.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:22:33]:

No, not at all. And the other point I would add to this is if you are a female, if you're trying to do the co parenting thing and you really want to create that division of labor so that both of you are carrying that mental load, really your best moment to do that is in the very beginning part of the reason why women take on a lot more of the unseen labor in our homes. Not all of it, but part of it is because in the very beginning, we're the ones that are maybe giving the bads, we're the ones that are changing the diaper, we're the ones who are doing the bottles. And so we become the expert at that. And so the more that we are the expert in the beginning, the more our partners back away and say, oh, they know how to do it better than I do. Of course, when she told them, she's the default person to do it. So if you can try to be intentional and there are some great tools out there, I have a program, Evradsky's book fair play is a great book to look at for this at kind of dividing up. Okay, I'm going to be the soother in chief as the partner, I'm going to be the feeder in chief.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:23:33]:

As the partner, I'm going to be the baby. They're in cheek. Like, if you can figure out who's the one responsible for those things earlier, again, it's going to set you up for more success. So that that's the norm in your family. As opposed to when your kids reach five or six or three years old and you've, like, been fed up with being the one who's fully in charge of everything. That's a harder conversation to have than to have it early on when everybody feels all excited about this new little one that's in the home.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:00]:

Yeah, I would say we very much did. Like, I'm the kid in chief, as you were saying. And I think it mostly came from a place of just control. And that's a me thing. It's more about. I think there's probably places where I took some joy from my husband. Cause I was like, I just. I know how to do it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:21]:

I feel like I want to. Watching the struggle is uncomfortable for me.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:24:26]:

And I don't like it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:27]:

So I get to pick. That's fine.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:24:29]:

I knew his book doing it all. I have an entire chapter called control is overrated. Give some away.

Tiffany Sauder [00:24:34]:

Okay, well, I don't know.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:24:38]:

Yeah, it's about how do you have conversations about. So I'm going to walk you through, if you are a new mom, you just had your first baby and you are used to for your family being. For you and your partner, being the person who does the grocery shopping, does all the bill paying, does all of that. A lot of that comes from anxiety that we have about it getting done right. And it comes from people pleasing of trying to like, just do everything for everybody instead of kind of questioning it. But when you have kids, that quickly turns into resentment when you are the only person who's doing it. So what I would advise a person, what I would advise you when you're first having your child is to sit down and say, okay, these are all the things that need to get done. Major things, like for our home to run well, making sure that all the extras are purchased, like the toilet paper and the paper towels.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:25:33]:

This is the person who needs to do all the shopping or the meal planning. Okay. This is going to be the person who does the ferrying to the daycare or to whatever. And again, in the book, there's a whole list of things that you could choose from to put on your list and then have a conversation about what doesn't matter to us, what do we not care about at all? So, for example, in my house, like, this is a small example, but I don't care about Christmas cards. I don't do Christmas cards in my family, so no one has that on their list. Or even, like, I don't care about my refrigerator being sparkling clean every single week. Like, that could be a once a month thing that somebody does, but that doesn't need to be on either of our lists, my partner, or my list. And then you can divide up and say, okay, according to what people's strengths are, their natural talents, their skills.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:26:23]:

This is how we're going to divide it so that it's really clear for every single person. And Evori talks in her book about this idea of minimum standard of care. And that's, I think, the thing that allows moms to give the control away because we have a way we want to do it right. Like, I want my child to have a vegetable and a fruit and a protein in their lunch. When my husband packs a lunch, he just throws in, like, a granola bar and all the good, you know, and.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:50]:

Some Doritos and a juice box and a kit kat.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:26:52]:

And I'm the one at pickup that has to deal with that sugar rush and then the dip that happens and the behavioral issues. So when my husband started doing lunches on days that I would travel, because I travel a lot, I would say, okay, let's talk about for lunches, if you're making lunch, if I'm making lunch, if we're purchasing a lunch at Starbucks and putting it in a lunchbox, what does that look like? What does it need to have? And now, gosh, I can release control, because I know that we've already had a conversation about what we both expect and what's okay. So that's what it looks like. To give control away is to really have some more in depth conversations about family values, about expectations, and about what is a minimum standard of care. And I also talk about when should it be somebody else's job that's not yours as partners? And sometimes that changes. We had a nanny that lived with us, with her daughter for a year and a half.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:53]:

Wow. With her kid too. That's a really her child environment. Yeah.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:27:57]:

It was unique, and it worked out well. Part of it was because we had a new house we wanted to purchase, and it had a daylight base in it, and we're like, well, the only way we're gonna be able to justify this is not how many child health care costs. And my kids were little at the time, after a year and a half, though, it became so apparent that the woman's kids needs were really high that it was requiring a lot of communication. That was actually adding stress to my husband and I, because the nanny, she was someone who liked a lot of control as well. She would need me to, like, say, exactly what are the things that I needed her to do, like, weeks in advance and sometimes with my job and the way that kids are, as many of your listeners know, like, I didn't have it all planned out. Yeah. So that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:41]:

And I didn't want to. It took a lot of energy to do that. This is my home. Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:28:46]:

So now the mental load became, like, higher and higher. And then my kids got older, they could do a lot of things for themselves. My daughter can now walk to school with an apple Watch, and I feel very comfortable with that. And so over time, we had to make this decision, again, a value decision between my husband and I. Okay. Is it worth it to have this thing be outsourced? Yes, it's saving us money, but, like, at what cost? And so do we need to make a different shift? But when you're in the habit of having these regular discussions about your values and about dividing up labor, then it's easier to have that kind of conversation when things change. To say, I don't feel good, I feel constantly, like, reach out to other people in our home. I feel like constantly I have to think about giving directions to someone.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:29:32]:

I don't want to be a boss when I'm at home. I want to actually just be a mom and be a partner to you. This is another job I now have added to me. So I think that's another piece of this. When you're starting out is accepting there might be some things that you add as something or someone you're delegating to. But then again, trying to bring this awareness or openness to okay, but that might change, and that's okay. It doesn't mean I'm bad or the person's bad or whatever. It just means I have to pay attention.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:30:04]:

What are my needs and how do I need to shift it?

Tiffany Sauder [00:30:07]:

And having the courage, because when you start to have care inside of your home, we've had some version of somebody in our house for over 15 years. And at the beginning, because they're in your house, and most everyone else who is in your home is a guest of yours or family. And so there's this sense of, like, hosting them and caring for them and loving them and learning about them and investing in them that comes. It's natural when somebody's in your house to do and be all those things. And I had to really learn this line of, like, this is their place of work and I want them to know that I am for them and I am, like, on their team and I am here to make their job as easy as possible. And the moment it stops working for me, it doesn't work for either one of us. It sort of took a little trial and error, but you start to be like, they're with your kids and they're in your house and they're in your home and they're sitting on your couch and, like, all these things that are very personal. And so knowing how to keep some distance where you do really like each other because you kind of need to, if you work, you know, if they're going to be in your home, you need to like them.

Tiffany Sauder [00:31:17]:

I think that it's like, I've sort of had to learn that dance, but ultimately this only works if it works for me. And we have to keep stock that that's the case. And, like, as you said, like, as seasons change, kids get to different ages, get to a new school, don't have to travel anymore, one spouse works at home. Like, all of those shifts make massive disruptions and kind of what your care, like, solving puzzle is.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:31:42]:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think there's so much that comes back to that internal boundary like we were talking about at the beginning. It comes back to you saying, like, what are my knee? And my needs are just as important as everybody else's needs in this equation. And you said, like, if mama ain't happy, nobody's happy. So as soon as it stops working for me, I know it's going to cause resentment. I'm not going to be the type of employer that I want to be. My kids aren't going to get the care that they need because that person's not going to feel good about it.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:32:14]:

So in the end, even though it feels selfish, it actually helps every other person around you.

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:20]:

Well, and you probably experience this, but I've had a few where you start to be, like, kind of hiding from them. Like, they pull in and you're like, oh, I want to die. Or it's like I'm going to try to move all my stuff to my room so that I don't have to. And it's like, those are signs. Those are signs. Those are signs.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:32:35]:

It's not working. Those are signs.

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:37]:

You know, you're like, this is my home. I pay this mortgage. What is happening.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:32:43]:

Yes. And the sooner you address it, actually, the less drama in the end, the more it goes on, the more drama.

Tiffany Sauder [00:32:51]:

For sure. For sure. Okay, well, to close, I love it when I'm talking to two career families, are there any tips or tricks or tools or dinnertime routines or that you guys do in your household that you could generously share with my listeners?

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:33:06]:

Yeah, absolutely. So in doing it all, I actually outline four areas that can help to minimize stress and four areas where you need a specific tools that can make it so that you can spend more time on your priorities. And the things that matter the most and not have all the to dos in our life define us. And one of those areas is the non negotiables. The non negotiables are all the things you have to do for yourself and you can think of, like, AI. We're using AI all the time throughout the whole world to take care of non negotiables. Right. Like, I have to send an email.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:33:39]:

AI might create an email template for me that I just fill in, you know, algorithmic things, things like that. So in my household, we have a set schedule in terms of dinners and in terms of laundry. So for dinners, we have one night a week. My husband makes it. One night a week I make it, then we have leftovers, then we have takeout, then we go out. That's kind of like how our week is structured. And on my days, my meal is as minimal as possible. It's a running joke in my family.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:34:08]:

Like, we're having steak and asparagus and a baguette, or we are having rotisserie chicken, mashed potatoes that I will make or buy and some type of, like, salad type situation. Right? So minimizing the areas where, yes, it needs to happen, but I am not in a garden. Like, it's not going to be that we have a gourmet meal. If I'm entertaining people and it's a holiday, of course I want to do something really fancy, but in the middle of my week, I just don't have time for that. So giving yourself some permission for the non negotiables to be easy for laundries, the way we have it set up is that I'm always washing and drying every single day. Like most people. That's kind of what happens. But I actually then keep everything in a closet, and I have it all together.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:34:53]:

One day a week from seven to 09:00 p.m. i fold and put away. So I have a glass of wine. I put on some good beyonce and I fold and I put away so that it doesn't feel like it's constantly overwhelming in my life. The rest of the time, if someone needs something, they pull it from their laundry basket, and it's not folded and it's not put away. They just take it, but it's hidden, and I step over it or I shut the closet door. If I don't get it done within that seven to nine period, some people might need two times during the week in order to make it so that all their stuff lasts. But the reason I do that is I want it to be that I have a moment on my calendar that this menial task will get done so that I'm not thinking about it constantly.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:35:42]:

I get it because I live it, too. But it's absurd that for CEO level women, the laundry makes us feel less than seeing that pile of laundry makes us feel like we're not good homemakers or that we haven't succeeded. And so I have decided to visually take that out of my line of sight so that way it doesn't distract me from the, like, amazing things, like writing a book, having a keynote speech, attending my child's choir concert, like, doing all these things I really want to do and be fully present for. And so, laundry, I've decided this is a little corner in my life. It lives between seven to nine, and the rest of the time, they can take a hike. So those are my two big tips.

Tiffany Sauder [00:36:25]:

Those are awesome. I love that. I love those. I'm a huge proponent of making laundry fit in its space. I don't know if you've ever heard of Poplin before. Have you heard of that service?

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:36:34]:

Yes. Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:36:35]:

So I'm a huge fan of send it out. It's a dollar a pound for three Starbucks a week. You can get your laundry washed, folded, and brought back to your house, and in 15 minutes, everything can be put away. But I love your solve for that, too. It's a great way of saying we've got to decide the container it can fit in. We cannot be owned by the ordinary. That's what I say a lot of times. Like, we want to live in the extraordinary, and the ordinary owns us way too much.

Tiffany Sauder [00:36:58]:

So sunny.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:36:59]:

Yeah, exactly. And I think the biggest stumbling block for people is the resources they think about. Like, well, that's too expensive, or that's for bougie people, or that's for high level executives. Absolutely not. You could use my hack, which anyone could do.

Tiffany Sauder [00:37:13]:

Totally.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:37:13]:

Or hack. Like. Like you said, you just think about the opportunity cost. Okay. Fine. I will choose to have coffee that I make at my own home instead of going to Starbucks. Or I'll go to Starbucks one time a week is nasty anyway. Go to Starbucks one time a week versus like three times a week.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:37:30]:

You know, we all have trade offs and benefits. And to me getting my time back and my sanity back and my sense of self back. Yeah, it's more important than a cup of Starbucks coffee.

Tiffany Sauder [00:37:41]:

Cheers to that. Love it. Whitney, if somebody wants to get a copy of your book or to connect with you, where can they do that? We'll also put links in show notes, but where can they do that?

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:37:49]:

Yeah, so my books are available wherever books are sold. Amazon is the easiest place, but it's in a lot of brick and mortar books or brick and mortar places. Well, it's called doing it all. Stop over functioning and become the mom and person you're meant to be. You can also find everything for me on my website, which is modernmommydoc.com. or if you go to my Instagram and Facebook, I have a link on there that links to all my blogs, my podcasts, my newsletter, programs that we do that are audio visuals. So really easy. Just modernmommydoc.com or modernmommydoc for Instagram.

Tiffany Sauder [00:38:22]:

Awesome. Thank you, Whitney. Appreciate you sharing your experiences and your expertise. I know that some new mamas are going to be helped by this episode, and I got a few reminders of how to keep the simple things simple.

Dr. Whitney Casares [00:38:35]:

Absolutely. It's my pleasure. Thanks.

Tiffany Sauder [00:38:38]:

Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared Confident. Until next time, keep telling fear. You will not decide what happens in my life. I will.