Why do we wait? with Renée Warren

Renee Warren [00:00:00]:

Why do we do the things we don't want to do that we think is expected of us? We don't live authentic to ourselves in those moments, like the true purpose of a human's life is that self awareness, the truth within us. But to love just, that's it. So love on others. And if you can't be that for yourself, how are you possibly able to be that for anybody else? Because then it's a lie. And if you're living a lie, that is so exhausting.

Tiffany Sauder [00:00:49]:

I'm a small town kid born with a big city spirit. I choose to play a lot of awesome roles in life. Mom, wife, entrepreneur, CEO, board member, investor, and mentor. 17 years ago, I founded a marketing consultancy, and ever since, my husband, junior, and I have been building our careers and our family on the exact same timeline. Yep, that means four kids, three businesses, two careers, all building towards one life we love. When I discovered I could purposefully embrace all of these ands in my life, it unlocked my world. And I want that for you, too. Im Tiffany Souder and this is scared, confident, excited for the conversation today it is.

Tiffany Sauder [00:01:33]:

Renee Warren is an award winning entrepreneur, investor, author, speaker, podcast host, and founder of We Wild Women, a PR agency that revolutionizes how female led businesses shine in the media spotlight. Renee is not just a leader, she's a visionary, innovating how women can achieve unprecedented visibility and success. And outside of her job and the hustle of that, she enjoys time with her irish twin sons, cross fitting drumming, and being her husband, Dan Martell's number one cheerleader. Renee, welcome to scared, confident.

Renee Warren [00:02:08]:

Well, thank you. And I'll say most of the time I'm his number one cheerleader, but when he makes me angry, I'm not his cheerleader.

Tiffany Sauder [00:02:15]:

Yeah, fair enough. Well, we can talk about that a little bit, because I want to dig into your two career household because I know it is a lot going on. But I am going to start with a question. If I were to read that bio to your 22 year old self, if I were to call 22 year old Renee and say, I want to share with you what it's going to sound like to be you, what would she have the hardest time believing had happened in your life.

Renee Warren [00:02:39]:

I would say probably having kids and then getting married because I thought I wanted both. But I definitely wanted both when I was much younger than 22 years old. And then when I turned in my twenties after I graduated from college, I realized, I don't know that I want this, and if I do, it's definitely not now. I think the entrepreneur side of things has always been established for me and probably starting a podcast, but that was also, like, way before podcasting would have existed. So those would be the. Probably the most surprising things. If I were to be 22 and all of a sudden, fast forward to today, that would be 20 years ago.

Tiffany Sauder [00:03:19]:

Can I dig into that for a hot minute? Because I think that we as women feel like there's like, these seasons to things. There's only so many years our bodies will have children, and so there's this odd time pressure. And I'm sure you also talk to young women where they see, like, these roads, at some point they have to intersect this, like, mom version of myself that I see and somewhat anchored, probably, in how we grew up and what we think that what we thought that was going to look like. And then we have this, like, career version of ourselves where you went to college, you worked really hard for this kind of achievement that you have. And it's like, what I'm pursuing and what I want, like, how do we fit those things together? And it does feel like this traffic jam almost like this season of your life. So I don't know. We don't need to spend 25 minutes on it. But how did you kind of unpack that for yourself a little bit?

Renee Warren [00:04:13]:

Well, for me, it was, I had already, I want to say, accomplished a lot. So when I was 17 years old, my mom told me to get a job. And I thought that entrepreneurs just made a lot of money and didn't work a lot. So I couldn't figure out why people actually worked for somebody else. And my sister and I at the time decided to start a restaurant. So we took over the lease of a building and we started a restaurant. So she was 19 at the time, 20, and I was 17. And yeah, we made a lot of money, but we worked so hard.

Renee Warren [00:04:43]:

I remember one week, it was like 80 hours week that I had worked. It was ridiculous. And I thought, okay, I don't mind this on some level because remember, 17 years old, there's no care in the world, and you feel good and there's no worries. I lived at home, didn't have cell phones back then, had no. Zero expenses. We were rolling $15,000 worth of cash underneath our bed at night thinking, this is normal. So I got a taste of what it was like to be an entrepreneur a very young age, and all of the issues that went with it, from hiring my mom's friends to having to fire people because they came to work stoned and having to be the person to make the decision to do the next thing in the business. But at the time, also in high school, there was, like nine of us growing up.

Renee Warren [00:05:36]:

We were really close, and every single one of them other than myself had a boy. They were always sad or crying or worried about where they were going, who they were with. And I'm like, you're so young. Why are you putting so much pressure on yourself to be in a relationship? I mean, I'm thankful that I didn't feel the need to have a boyfriend. Plus, small town, there wasn't really anybody that I liked. And so I don't think having a family and getting married was really instilled in me at that young age, because I don't want that right now. But I have my whole life ahead of me to think about what this is. I was just kind of, like, free and just enjoying the time.

Renee Warren [00:06:14]:

So then I went to university, and then I traveled, and I lived in Australia for the year, and I've had boyfriends coming back to Canada. It was, like, time to get real about my career. So I had my first and only corporate job for maybe two years, and it was very stifling. And even then, I'd say that group of people weren't really getting married or having kids yet either. I had a lot of friends, so I'll be 43 this summer, and there's no shame in sharing how old I am. I have friends in my circle of girls that I grew up with that only had their second child this past year. And so people waited a long time. None of us really grew up, like, super religious or anything, although some of us did attend church and did have our own communities.

Renee Warren [00:07:01]:

But because of that, there was no pressure. There was no pressure from my parents either. There was no expectation of me getting married, having kids. There was nothing until I met my husband. And I was 28 years old. And at the time, I was with somebody else who I just couldn't see myself having a future with. But we had fun together, and I was like, oh, gosh, so dumped him. He was mutual.

Renee Warren [00:07:23]:

And then I met my husband. I was like, oh, this is what it actually feels like to see a future with somebody and I was like, we can build this together. And, boy, did we ever build our life together. So we've been together for, I think, like, 14 or 15 years, and we both lived in separate cities while dating. Same cities while dating kind of from, like, San Francisco to the east coast of Canada, now on the west coast of Canada. I knew that when you find that right partner and you see a future together with the admiration of each other and then the motivation to build something together, I knew that whatever was thrown at us, we could handle. And so funny how our story went was he proposed to me just a year after we started dating. And it wasn't a few months later that I found out I was pregnant with my first son, Max.

Renee Warren [00:08:11]:

And so while we had already planned the wedding and we had already sent out invitations for people to hold the date, save the date for this date next summer, we were literally due on the same day as that wedding.

Tiffany Sauder [00:08:23]:

Oh, my word. Yep.

Renee Warren [00:08:24]:

So we had to call everybody up and say, oh, gosh, this happened. So we postponed the wedding to the next summer. Same thing happened again because we expected our second child and who was due a month after our supposed wedding date, and he came early, so, oh, my word, two boys in eleven months. We had to postpone that wedding again. We finally did get married, and the blessing in it was that we had our two and only children in our wedding with us, and we absolutely loved that. But coming back to, like, how we do this is we've always applied our business like philosophies to our family life. So looking at what works in our business, to be able to manage so many things, we knew we needed to do that in our business. Because my husband was raising around for his next startup, I was growing my previous agency.

Renee Warren [00:09:20]:

We had clients from all over the world. There were moments when we would, in passing, see each other in the airport. Somebody was coming, somebody was going. We'd wave through the security window, and it's like the nanny was at home with the kids. I held on to that hustle, and I held onto that drive for a very long time to the point of burnout, and we could talk about that too.

Tiffany Sauder [00:09:41]:

There's actually a theme, I think, as you were telling me your story that even connects to the work you're doing today. And like, almost like this courage to stand apart, actually, from the pack. Even when you were saying, like, I had nine friends, and it was like, I mean, I don't know, I don't need a boyfriend. They can have that, like, sort of just courage to stand apart. And I think a lot of times people want uncommon outcomes in life, but they don't know how to put an uncommon effort into it. And it means sometimes being alone and taking a right when other people are taking a left, and trusting your own timing of things and not feeling like you have to follow so closely what society's expectations are, what your family's expect, whatever. Wherever the expectations are coming from, they're usually well intentioned. But having the courage to follow your own path is kind of what I hear in your story.

Tiffany Sauder [00:10:32]:

And it's a little bit amazing that that's what you're work is now, is helping women stand apart. Like, having the courage to do that. And it sounds like that's been a theme in your relationship and in just your life.

Renee Warren [00:10:46]:

I'd say I'm like a contrarian. I think there are rules and boundaries, too, in our society that aren't illegal to not follow. But we feel like there is a duty as a collective, as a society, to follow certain rules and to abide by certain boundaries. But a lot of us don't ever question how we can approach something differently or do something differently, or have a different belief, or we're too scared to speak up or too scared to do something that may go against our families or community's beliefs for fear of rejection, for fear of being shamed. And I went through something really recently. I don't know if you want to talk about this on the show, but I'm really open about a recent surgery that I had done. Do you know about this?

Tiffany Sauder [00:11:35]:

Your nose?

Renee Warren [00:11:36]:

Yes. Okay. So a month ago, almost to the day, I had rhinoplasty done. And this all relates to this, everything we're just talking about. Because even when you ask, why do I decide to work when we are financially really, really well? My husband's business just blew up like crazy in the last couple of years, so there's no financial reason why I would need to work. But this connects to the story perfectly, because to answer the why in that is also to know why I've been wanting to get. And, like, I'm still healing. Like, my nose is still very, very poofy.

Renee Warren [00:12:12]:

When I look at the camera right now, like, oh, my God, it's still swollen. I feel so good. The moment I woke up after surgery was like someone took the weight of an elephant off my shoulders. For 30 years, this is something I've been wanting to do. And the message is, I'm not saying go and get plastic surgery and do all these things, but that if there's something that you've been wanting to do for so long, and you're not doing it because the only thing you're worried about is what other people think. Let me tell you, the outcome is so not what you expect. So my husband, who has a media company, said, why don't we do a mini documentary of the whole process of you getting rhinoplasty? And I said, no way. I don't want people to think that I'm feeding into the patriarchy's ideals on perfectionism and how everyone needs to go and have plastic surgery in order to be pretty.

Renee Warren [00:13:01]:

That is not the message I want to send. That's because I worried about what other people thought about me getting this procedure. And so I told a few friends, and let me tell you, every single person that I told before going into the surgery were screaming out loud with excitement. They're like, renee, you do you. This is amazing. And so I had not told my parents yet. I'm very close to my parents, and I had not told them up until two days before going into the surgery. And this was booked months ago.

Renee Warren [00:13:32]:

So I called them.

Tiffany Sauder [00:13:32]:

The choice not to tell them.

Renee Warren [00:13:34]:

Yeah. I was like, oh, God, these are the people that I'm so afraid of. I don't want them to be insulted. So I call them up, and usually they're together at home, but some. For some reason, my dad was out, I don't know, at the gym or something. So my parents are, like, 78, 79 years old. And I called them up, and I was like, mom, we chatted. And I was like, hey, we talked about them coming to visit us in August this summer.

Renee Warren [00:13:57]:

And so I go, here's the reason for my call. And I just told her. And I expected some massive fallout, that she goes, how long is the recovery? Where are you getting this done? Is Dan bringing you okay. Oh, about those dates in August of us coming out to visit you. And I go, mom, did you not hear what I just said? She's like, yeah, that's totally fine. And I was like, okay, can you just have dad call me when he gets home, please?

Tiffany Sauder [00:14:22]:

Or can you just tell him? And, yeah.

Renee Warren [00:14:24]:

So I'm like, what? And, like, looking at the time of day, I'm like, she hasn't gotten into the wine yet, so she knows what I'm saying. Okay. So my dad calls an hour later, same exact story, and then he hangs up, and then they call me back a little bit later. He's like, you know, you and your mom, we were just chatting, and we realized that we expected that you would do something like this a lot sooner. And I go, what? And so we don't talk about these things. Never once did I ever tell anybody in my life that I hated my nose because it was going to bring attention to it. Nope. Can't say I don't like my nose, because then people are gonna be like, oh, geez, she's got a big nose.

Renee Warren [00:14:59]:

So I finally built up the courage, I think it was four or five days after the surgery, to post something on Facebook. And I used Facebook as a good litmus test because it was more of a closed off community. Most people that I'm friends with on Facebook are people I've met in person or are people I've known. I was like, here it goes. And I wrote the story about why I did this and why I've been thinking about this for 30 years. Years. And what stopped me from doing it was everyone else's perceived opinion of why I shouldn't do this and how pretentious it was of me to do something like this. Not only did that not happen at all, zero.

Renee Warren [00:15:39]:

I had phone calls, text messages, DM's of all these people telling me how brave I was to share the story, admitting to all the surgeries they've all had done, tummy tucks to earlobes to nose jobs to chin implants to butt stuff. I was like, holy crap. I'm like, I did not know that literally everybody I knew had something done. And I go, we don't talk about this because of the same reason why they never shared the story, the same reason why I never did. I just happened to be the person to be maybe brave enough and okay enough to share it. And then I got so many compliments about my bravery. I got so many people who were inspired to do the thing that they were afraid to do, whether or not it was surgery or something else in their life. And so when I asked myself, why did I take so long to do this was because I was just so worried about what other people thought.

Renee Warren [00:16:33]:

And believe me, there are probably people that have thought that, and they maybe said it amongst themselves. But guess what? I don't care. What I've learned in all of this is that if anybody were to look at that story and have something negative to say, it actually has nothing to do with me and everything to do with them. And like Rachel Hollis says, other people's opinion of you is none of your business. So here I am, recovering from something I've been wanting to do for 30 years, and I stopped myself because I was too worried about the negative fallout that never, ever happened.

Tiffany Sauder [00:17:07]:

Well, thanks for sharing that, Renee. I think that you're, like, seeing the parallel in every area of our lives, like, where we are afraid to run into the thing that we're called into, whether that be getting comfortable. My grandma has this amazing saying, and she says, like, dress to forget yourself or, like, if you have a nose, you love that the way that makes you available to other people is in a totally different place because you're not thinking about yourself, you know, getting it to the place where it's like, I'm totally happy with how I look, happy with how I feel. I feel good on the inside, and I look in a way where I can just be comfortable and I can be available to, like, serve and love and be present to other people. That's what I hear from you, is this was about taking my attention, actually away from myself more than it was this sort of big vanity motion. And, like, having the fear to, like, confidence to step out is amazing.

Renee Warren [00:17:56]:

It is the confidence. And it's not to say that I did not already do the inner work. I did everything. Meditation, spirituality, hired coaches, therapist to go beyond my looks, to tap into the essence of me. But here's what I believe that happened in all of this is post surgery is now I feel like myself more. There's nothing else I want to do to my body. Nothing. That was the one thing.

Renee Warren [00:18:23]:

And so that self esteem and the confidence that comes, the equivalent would be to the person losing their extra 20 pounds, right? Or the person getting their hair cut or dyed, whatever it is. It's like, why do we stop ourselves, right? Or why do we do the things we don't want to do that we think is expected of us? We don't live authentic to ourselves in those moments. Like, the true purpose of a human's life is that self awareness, the truth within us. But to love just. That's it. So love on others. And if you can't be that for yourself, how are you possibly able to be that for anybody else? Because then it's a lie. And if you're living a lie, that is so exhausting, it is not fulfilling at all.

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:10]:

It has different consequences. Totally. So I want to take a little detour from this to, like, knowing who you are, having the confidence and kind of saying, like, okay, I know myself, and I've got to figure out how this plays into the world in all of the different roles that you play and as a wife and a mom and business pursuits that you have. We talked before. I pushed record. I was like, I really want to talk about. You're still trying to do some really hard things, and you don't have to. There's no financial pressure for you to make anything happen.

Tiffany Sauder [00:19:41]:

And I know that you're not just, like, wanting these to be passive hobbies that just scratch an itch. Like, I can tell that from the outside. So what keeps you, like, pushing so hard and keeping yourself in the growth game and continuing to just, like, push? Why make it so complex, Renee? Like, why make life so hard? Like, why?

Renee Warren [00:19:58]:

But why I disagree in it being harder because, well, I'm just.

Tiffany Sauder [00:20:02]:

I'm more asserting this, so help me.

Renee Warren [00:20:05]:

Yeah. So maybe the expectation would be that I would not work and be a stay at home mom. And let me tell you, that is harder for me. I have tapped into that. When we first got our oldest into school, we were adamant about homeschooling, which meant that he was at home with us for months. And then I just threw in the towel. I said, I cannot do this. It was hard, the decision for me to do what I do, it's because I genuinely believe that we are all artists and we all have our own vessel to which we get in the state of flow, where we totally lose track of time doing what we do because we love doing it, whatever that is.

Renee Warren [00:20:41]:

And I'm not talking about painting canvas or making jewelry as artists, although those could be the things I'm talking about. Hitting record on a podcast, that's for me, it's artistry, or it's about crafting an incredible strategy and pitch for a client, because I love doing that. And I feel like I would be living out of alignment if I was to coast. And I'm not disrespecting the people that are stay at home moms. My kids are older. I feel like there'd be way less for me to do. And we have a lot of help at home anyway. But I could not coast.

Renee Warren [00:21:20]:

I need to create. I need to be the artist that is expected of me from God. God's gift to us is that we are artists and that our service back to him is to fulfill that in the best way possible. And so that's why. And I've tried it, and I've tried working in my husband's business, for my husband. I've tried every single possible array of how we could live a life. And then we just decided, this is what I'd love to do. That being said, I've never taken a mat leave.

Renee Warren [00:21:51]:

So when my kids were born right away back to work. The moments, they were both five weeks old. They were in daycare full time with my sister in law's daycare, and I was back to work. So we decided actually not that long ago that my husband and I, that I will take a mini sabbatical come this December. And what that looks like, I don't know. But we put it on the calendar that it's time away. Because I do know this, too, that if you're not stepping away from the hustle of and grind of life, that you cannot be the creative version of yourself. Think about those moments when you have the best ideas.

Renee Warren [00:22:30]:

In the shower, on a walk, on a run, is because there's really nothing else going on. And so if you want to kind of unlock that next level, if you want to get out of a rut or get unstuck, I highly recommend allowing yourself to be rested and even bored, because that boredom is what allows you to figure stuff out.

Tiffany Sauder [00:22:52]:

Are you intimidated by. I feel like I would be intimidated by that prospect of not having tasks, of being bored as part of this decision. A reaction to you saying, like, I do feel like I'm, like, in a creative desert right now and I do feel like I need a different source of, like, inspiration. Is that how you guys got to this choice?

Renee Warren [00:23:13]:

I mean, years and years of discussions. So one thing that we do is we do quarterly couples retreats, my husband and I. So we go away for three, four days, disconnected. And we work through certain criteria. We also have weekly meetings. And it kept coming up. And we did this. We do these two litmus tests.

Renee Warren [00:23:33]:

The first one is, if you were to die in a year today, what would you do for the next twelve months? But, like, be honest, what would you do? Because whatever. The first two or three things that come out of your mouth are your reality. And I think we don't give ourself that respect or the space to actually think that way. And then the other litmus test is if $22 million was deposited into your bank account today, right now, you were free to do whatever you want with it, would you be doing what you do? And it's not to say to remove yourself from all your responsibilities in life, but really think about that. And how can you make that work? Because a lot of us are stuck in relationships, in jobs, in positions that we know we don't need to be in, and we're too afraid to take the leap, make the change, because that's tough. Change is tough. Change is not as hard as just living a life that is so inauthentic to yourself, though. So he kept giving me that test every week.

Renee Warren [00:24:36]:

If you were to die in a year from now, would you? I'm like, yes and no. I feel like I need to think about this. And so my friend Allie Caffrey has a business where she helps people, essentially, learn how to take sabbaticals from their business. It's called the sabbatical method. And the reason why she teaches that is because every founder, CEO, business owner should create and structure a business so that if something were to happen, or even if they elected to go away for a couple of weeks or a couple months, their business could survive. So I finally called her up one day. I was like, I'm going to take the mat leave I never had, even though my kids are ten and eleven years old, she goes, good for you. So that's why I'm doing it at this point.

Renee Warren [00:25:16]:

Now, we just made the decision, so I don't know how long it's going to be, but I also know with full conviction that whatever comes of it is going to be what needs to happen.

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:25]:

I love that. So if you were going to die in a year, what would you do? Is that the question?

Renee Warren [00:25:31]:

Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:32]:

And then the second one is, if a $22 million was deposited in your.

Renee Warren [00:25:35]:

Bank, would you still do what you're doing today?

Tiffany Sauder [00:25:37]:

Would you still do what you're doing?

Renee Warren [00:25:38]:

And so the first question is, really will answer immediately, who are you going to surround yourself with? 100%. People are going to be like, I'll be with my kids more. My wife, my husband, my parents, my family. It always comes down to people. And the second one is really answers the question, is what you're doing to create and generate wealth, the thing that you really want to do? Because, I mean, $22 million is a lot. You can do many things with that. Yeah, that's tax free, by the way.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:08]:

It's after tax.

Renee Warren [00:26:09]:

After taxes. It's just.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:10]:

It's an. It's an s corp. It's.

Renee Warren [00:26:12]:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can do whatever you want. Okay, so we don't know when we're going to die, and most of us don't have $22 million in our bank account, but the exercise really motivates you to think, what can and should my life really look like? And to answer the first question, it always comes down to who you're going to surround yourself with the most. Because every single person is like, well, I spend more time with my kids. We would go on this lavish vacation, if you can't afford it financially and time wise, do it now. Call your mom and dad today. Book those things today. Why do we wait? Right.

Renee Warren [00:26:47]:

What stops us from doing the things that we want to do?

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:51]:

I think why do we wait? Is the title of this episode.

Renee Warren [00:26:53]:

I love that.

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:54]:

I mean, at the beginning, why do we wait?

Renee Warren [00:26:56]:

I love that. That's totally it. Why do we wait?

Tiffany Sauder [00:26:59]:

Yeah.

Renee Warren [00:27:00]:

Noah's job, $22 million.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:03]:

Yeah. Why do we wait? But I think it gets to the center of what? Even in your own, maybe, like, just journey right now. I've seen, like, on social, you took some liberties with, like, photo shoots to be like, I am going to physically show how big I want to live, like, what I wear. And I think there's, like, this, like, break from routine that you're able to be like, no, I'm not gonna stay inside this pail. I'm not gonna stay inside of this box. I'm not. And I'm physically gonna practice wearing bright pink, making myself big. Like, I'm physically gonna practice that as a way to train my spirit.

Tiffany Sauder [00:27:37]:

That's what I, like. Read from you. Is that fair?

Renee Warren [00:27:40]:

Yeah. So somebody said it best on Facebook. I think it was my friend Bonnie who came in and dropped a beautiful note of which, if you remind me, I'll share it with you because it might be good for your show notes, too, about how you're outside of what you wear. What you look like is really adorning your soul. It's how you dress your soul. And so if that nose didn't fit, how are you going to dress your soul? So, for me, when I look back at those pictures, I've had the same photographer since 2020, and I've done five photo shoots with her. And it is impressive, the evolution of my confidence over those few years. And after each photo shoot, the colors got brighter and brighter, and I started to show a little more skin because that's what I wanted to do.

Renee Warren [00:28:25]:

My body was the same throughout those four years. And so I look back four years ago, those first photos, I was really covered up and just not bold. And now I feel like I've gone through this radical reinvention, and I just. I don't care. I just. I do not care. I call it the give no f's. Forties.

Renee Warren [00:28:44]:

When you turn 40 years old, drop all f's, just leave them at the door.

Tiffany Sauder [00:28:49]:

Yes, I hear you. Yes. Living in that decade is, I think, fun. I think my forties have been always fun.

Renee Warren [00:28:55]:

Yeah. They've done a study, and I gotta find a study because they always source it. But they studied thousands of women in their, like, seventies and eighties and asked them what year they recall feeling that they started to get older. And the average age was 43. And that's what I'm coming into this year. So, yeah, I gotta prove them all wrong.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:14]:

I turned 44 in June. I'm one year ahead of you, so I don't know. I think you're as old as you want me.

Renee Warren [00:29:21]:

Exactly. Yeah, that's it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:24]:

Sometimes my hip hurts a little after runs and things like that.

Renee Warren [00:29:27]:

Then you start to go a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

Tiffany Sauder [00:29:31]:

There's a little bit of that. A little bit of that, exactly. Well, I have one more place I want to park us, and then we can close out here. But in the work that you do in helping female led brands be found on the Internet and get coverage inside of, like, big media outlets, there's obviously, like, press releases and pitches and outreach and journalists to make friends. There's all these x's and o's of it. But one of my observations, as I read through the testimonials that I think connects to this theme of why do we wait? Is it was like, I felt like they were saying, renee helped me believe that I was worthy, that the project I'm working on is worthy of it, being seen and found and being beside these big media brands that we represent. So just talk a little bit about, I think as you put yourself out there as a thought leader in your We Wild Women podcast, it's like finding that internal, well, to keep yourself going and, like, believing that the world needs to hear this. What does that look like? What does that sound like, Renee? And, like, if someone's in that space, how can you help them see themselves the way that you would see them if they were on the phone with you?

Renee Warren [00:30:41]:

So I think the people that decide to come and work with me have already made the decision that they need that attention. But a lot of people wait. But when we start working together, really part of what they're seeking is that validation of themselves being the person that's going to establish themselves as the authority in the space. The people that set the standard for their industry, I'm not the person to give them validation. For some reason. It happens while we work together, because I help them with their positioning and their messaging and their pitching and this overall strategy of how they can reach out. But really, when you're asking that question, the download I got was also the evolution of the industry. So PR has changed dramatically in the last four years.

Renee Warren [00:31:28]:

I want to say part pandemic, which is a huge thing, but also just that it was on the way out or up for a big change anyway. Big media companies laid off all their staff writers. It's just there was so much going on. But here's the reality. We are all our own media companies now. And I know this to be true, that journalists will choose, or writers reporters will choose a person that has a more extensive social following that might be a little bit less qualified because they need the eyeballs for their stories. We all have the power to be our own media companies. It's right in our hands.

Renee Warren [00:32:04]:

On social, few people actually invest their time and their dollars into growing that, because the freedom you have to say what you want to do, what you want on social is crazy. I have had a client who is a professional dog trainer, and her approach to dog training is a little bit more strict than a lot of the media outlets want because they're all into like, positive reinforcement. And she has a different approach to it. Not to say that she has any space for physically abusing a dog, but she has a different approach, which meant that a lot of the media won't interview her or have her own podcasts because her approach is not in alignment with their values and dog training. And she's not about punishment, but she's about a level of punishment to help correct behaviors. So the solution to this problem is that you just blow up your TikTok and your Instagram account, that you're allowed to have full ownership of what you share and say, and nobody can tell you what the boundaries are. And that alone should get her the recognition. Because here's what I know, is if you are putting yourself out there, putting yourself on podcasts, getting attention from people over social, like you and I connected on Instagram, I had a woman reach out to me two days ago asking me to speak at an event in Florida in September because she found me on social media.

Renee Warren [00:33:27]:

That's it. And it's not like I have a massive following, but I put out the right content consistently for people to get an idea of what I do and my values. Personally, that is a good test for the type of content that you should be sharing, but also a good test of content you could be pitching to the media. So when things start to hit in terms of engagement, likes, shares follows, that is an indication of the content that your community needs. And that's the stuff that gets the attention of the media. So it used to be that you get in the media, then you get followers now it's almost the complete other way. When you have spent the time to build your presence online, YouTube, social, podcasting, it makes it so much easier for you to pitch the media. Because here's the thing.

Renee Warren [00:34:21]:

It's the only way where people can get daily active insight into your life. We're all a reality tv show. There's a reason why people are addicted to reality tv. We have that capability ourselves, is we're on our own reality tv show. People can tap in for free anytime they want. People buy from those they know, like and trust. And that's the only way to do it on a day to day basis, is to share stories or to throw up a TikTok or to throw up your vlog on YouTube. I will say that I have 273 or 272 episodes on my podcast, of which we started doing a mix of interview and solo episodes maybe a year ago.

Renee Warren [00:35:00]:

And partially because I was way too afraid to do solo episodes, thinking I needed the other person's intelligence to actually have people listen to me. Guess what happened? Guess what? Gets more engagement, gets more downloads, have as average, longer consumption rate are all my solo episodes because I am telling people my personal story, and they like that. And then strangers will be like, hey, renee, I hope you had fun in Tokyo. I realized you're only there for three days. I'm like, how do you know? Oh, that's right. So I know there's a lot of people that don't agree with this move or this perspective, and that's okay. I will say it will be harder to get the attention of your community, your industry, the media, if you're not.

Tiffany Sauder [00:35:41]:

Trying what's considered a lot of followers, like in your sort of Pareto of.

Renee Warren [00:35:48]:

Things, it's the followers to engagement too, because there's people that have, like, 50,000 followers, and they post something and they get three likes. But, like, three likes consistently means probably a lot of bots. So a lot of followers can be anything. There's micro influencers that have less than 5000 followers, but anytime they post something, their community loves it. Then there's people that have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of followers. And it's like the follower count is significant at a certain point. Like, also to know how old, like, the age of your account. So if your account is two days old and you have two followers, well, that ain't gonna get you anywhere.

Renee Warren [00:36:23]:

Sorry. But I would say, like, active, engage a few thousand followers is a good base. It's meaningful. You're posting stuff daily every single day. I actually have worked with a social media professional for a while now. Ally, she's helped me out through this, too. It's not difficult. We always stop because we're like, what do we say? How do we say it? Just post something.

Renee Warren [00:36:49]:

And if it flops, don't do that again. It's that simple. And you might lose followers. But guess what? You're gonna end up gaining more in the long term anyway. And don't try to be everything to everybody. Be super specific in the content you're sharing. If your account is about being a stay at home mom, then let it be the best stay at home mom account ever and own it with conviction. If it's about being a housewife, then be the best housewife that Instagram or TikTok could ever see.

Renee Warren [00:37:15]:

Whatever it is, whatever you are, whatever your values, just be that. And that's all. Like, when it comes to building authority, you cannot be an authority in your industry without owning a super niche. You won't come to me because I make the best water bottles in the world. No, but you'd come to me for advice on building authority, on pr, on why you shouldn't wait.

Tiffany Sauder [00:37:36]:

That's right. Love it. I feel like this was like a little pump sesh for me as I'm just figuring out I've got this agency that's doing its thing, and as I'm starting this podcast content world, you can get in your own head and lose like that sharp tip into the marketplace and it's like, just don't make it so freaking hard.

Renee Warren [00:37:53]:

Yeah, just.

Tiffany Sauder [00:37:54]:

Oh, I love that.

Renee Warren [00:37:56]:

I know that really quick Sidebar. My husband, for example, he published his book January of last year. So it's a year and a half ago. About a year ago, he launched his elite coaching program for businesses. Now he had already run SAS Academy, which is coaching for tech companies, so SaaS based companies, and that's been eight years now. So when he published this book, buy back your time, which was more like a broad business kind of focus, he attracted general business people from like Main street to corporate America. And then he arbitrarily launched his coaching program on the backend of Instagram DM's, of which now he's making millions of dollars. So sitting in a room in a mastermind with all of these people that have been in this space for years who have complex funnels, a million different offers, who are.

Renee Warren [00:38:46]:

The revenue was less than Dan's. The reality was we complicate things because we think the busy work is the ultimate way to success. Because how can something be so simple, right? We think it has to be. It's not just like losing weight, just like building muscle. It's not that it's difficult. It just takes time, and most people are not willing to invest that time.

Tiffany Sauder [00:39:10]:

Oh, so true. You're preaching to me right now. Okay. We're gonna part with a gift from your family to my two career households. So families like yours and like mine, where it's like everybody's got something they're doing and there's kids in the mix, and you want to have an amazing marriage. You want to have an amazing life. What's a tip? Something you guys do in your family could be your marriage home or with your kids. That helps turn chaos to peace.

Tiffany Sauder [00:39:33]:

That helps you guys move from reactive existence to proactive existence.

Renee Warren [00:39:37]:

It's something you guys do right now, starting the day. So Dan and I are up before the boys, and when they come down, they give us a snuggle every morning, and we never let go until they let go. It doesn't matter how busy our day is. We will not let go until they're ready. Sets the tone for the day. But also, one thing that we've learned, too, is when things start to spiral with a disagreement with my husband, the instant fix is physical touch. We don't actually, as humans, society, we don't touch ourselves enough. It sounds like it's not perverted, but it could be a hug for him.

Renee Warren [00:40:11]:

It's like holding his hand. The moment you physically touch with affection, not actually like hurting somebody, changes the dynamic. And it works for some kids sometimes. Not for one of my kids who tends to spiral, it's meeting him at his level, both tonality, physically being lower than he is. So if he's sitting on the couch spiraling, we get down the floor and we listen. We don't try to correct. We don't try to fix or coach. We just listen.

Renee Warren [00:40:39]:

Sometimes we just need a vent and then just really understanding our love language when you can understand each other's love language, because everybody's different. And by the way, it changes over time, too. When my husband and I first got together, it was, like, completely reversed. And then after kids, it changed, and he kept depositing into our marriage. Based on what? My original love language. And he's like, why are you getting so frustrated all the time? I thought this is what she wanted.

Tiffany Sauder [00:41:06]:

Interesting. I didn't know it could change. Interesting.

Renee Warren [00:41:09]:

Yeah. Now mine is acts of service and words of affirmation, because number one used to be quality time. So he's clearing his calendar, putting all this quality. And I'm like, why are the dishes still on the counter? He's like, but we're spending time together, baby. Yeah.

Tiffany Sauder [00:41:23]:

Yeah.

Renee Warren [00:41:24]:

It's not working.

Tiffany Sauder [00:41:25]:

Yes.

Renee Warren [00:41:26]:

So those are a few tips.

Tiffany Sauder [00:41:28]:

Love it, Renee. Well, I love when people share the real and the raw from the today and not just from the past as you're talking about just your rhinoplasty and that. I just think it's so generous. So thank you for sharing that with me today. It's been awesome to get to know you a little bit more and appreciate all you're doing to inspire women in the world. Appreciate it a lot. If somebody wants to get connected with you. Renee, between now and december, what's the.

Renee Warren [00:41:52]:

Best way to do that?

Tiffany Sauder [00:41:53]:

I would also be online before your autoresponder is on.

Renee Warren [00:41:57]:

No, I will probably be online more on social. Just taking my own advice. They can find me on Instagram. Renee warren. So r e n e e w a r r e n. Or my website if they're interested in what I do for fun, which is make a living. Wewildwomen.com.

Tiffany Sauder [00:42:15]:

Perfect. And we'll provide links to that in show notes. Thank you, renee, for being on. This was awesome.

Renee Warren [00:42:19]:

Thanks, josh.

Tiffany Sauder [00:42:24]:

My takeaway from this conversation with renee was these four words. Why do we wait? Why do we wait to start? Why do we wait to say I love you? Why do we wait to plan the trip? Why do we wait to start the workout? Why do we wait? And as we, like, move towards living this life that is, like, untethered from fear, and oftentimes that's untethered from other people's expectations for ourselves, why do we wait? So I don't know. I was really encouraged just continuing to, like, step into life with a sense of urgency and to do it in the way that works for you. I recently was just thinking about this idea of priorities and expectations, and I started to realize, like, sometimes to pursue your own priorities, you have to disappoint someone who else's expectations and priorities for you don't align with what it is that you want for yourself. And, I don't know, just encouragement to live with the sense of urgency, to live and make choices like this. Life is not forever, because it's not. So. Anyways, thanks for listening to this episode.

Tiffany Sauder [00:43:30]:

I hope that has been encouraging to you to continue to run boldly into your talents, into who God has made you to be. Like Renee said, we were all born to be a creator of some kind, and so step fully into your version of art. Thanks for listening. Thank you for joining me on another episode of Scared confident. Until next time, keep telling fear you will not decide what happens in my life. I will.